Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread XIII : A Rutherford Christmas

[Saints11]

You can tell this topic is too broad when you can go from trading for a winger, to defensive construction, and back to Craig Patrick. It is not that any of you are wrong; it is just if this was an English paragraph, the teacher would be shaking his/her dead and failing us all. By the way, I hope we get our winger before Boston does.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

By the end, Patrick wasn't doing the job. I don't mean in terms of trading for this guy or signing that guy; I mean he was spending most of his workdays sleeping in his office. Literally. That was a firing, not a "we want to go another direction" thing.

I think the bankruptcy sagas that hung over his head for a considerable amount of his tenure just wore him down.

I remember the haggard and defeated look on his face after the Kovy trade. He couldn't even convince himself it was a hockey trade, let alone the fans. He was no longer a GM, he had become Edward John Smith.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Very nice reference, Jiggy.

And true. There wasn't really even much for the guy to do that that point. He had zero resources. Although the year after the lockout kind of illustrated that he was probably behind the times on way or the other, though. When he assembled a team that was heavy on name recognition but not much on substance.

When you go into the season with Lasse Pirjeta as your #2 center and Steve Poapst as your top shutdown defenseman... trouble is a-brewin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

[/B]

This…

Morrow could have been Brendan Saad. That same draft, Sameulsson could have been Nikita Kucherov. Pouliot could have been Filip Forsberg. Those are 3 of the very best young creative wingers in the world, all coming into their own right now.

Arhg!!!

Harrington. Samuelsson was '09.

Same principle applies though.

 

[steveg]

I'm in the minority pool with you.

As am I. I agree with you guys 100%, on the young D thing, FWIW.

 

[mpp9]

I think we've built up frustration over where Shero went wrong in the past and expect JR to base his decisions off of it.

He has zero allegiance to any of our young D prospects. Maybe Botterill, Guerin and company are in his ear about it, but I'd imagine he's going to lean towards moving some of them out if he wants to go for a Cup the next couple years. If he's bringing back longterm solutions at forward, then I'm fine with it.

I'm hoping there's a middle ground. One of Martin/Scuds should go to clear some cap room and space for a younger D-man, and 1 or 2 of the younger D should go as well.

I think it's very unrealistic to expect JR to go into next season with Letang and all young D-men. No GM would do it. And from a cap point of view, Maatta, Despres and one of Harrington/Dumoulin/DP on our blue line regularly will free up more than enough cap room to get Sid and Geno some wingers.

 

[penguins2946*]

If Dumoulin keeps playing as well as he has (Letang gets hurt again or something to get him into the lineup), would it be crazy to consider moving Maatta for top-6 wing help? Someone like JVR or Kane.

 

[billybudd]

I think the bankruptcy sagas that hung over his head for a considerable amount of his tenure just wore him down.

I remember the haggard and defeated look on his face after the Kovy trade. He couldn't even convince himself it was a hockey trade, let alone the fans. He was no longer a GM, he had become Edward John Smith.

That's a reasonable explanation for why he burned out. And by 06, there's no question that he had burned out.

 

[billybudd]

I think we've built up frustration over where Shero went wrong in the past and expect JR to base his decisions off of it.

He has zero allegiance to any of our young D prospects. Maybe Botterill, Guerin and company are in his ear about it, but I'd imagine he's going to lean towards moving some of them out if he wants to go for a Cup the next couple years. If he's bringing back longterm solutions at forward, then I'm fine with it.

I'm hoping there's a middle ground. One of Martin/Scuds should go to clear some cap room and space for a younger D-man, and 1 or 2 of the younger D should go as well.

I think it's very unrealistic to expect JR to go into next season with Letang and all young D-men. No GM would do it. And from a cap point of view, Maatta, Despres and one of Harrington/Dumoulin/DP on our blue line regularly will free up more than enough cap room to get Sid and Geno some wingers.

I think as long as Maatta plays well for the remainder of the season, he's probably on the cusp of being considered a "reliable vet." Frankly, that's how Johnston's been using him since day 1.

 

[clefty]

I feel like Craig Patrick didn't adapt with the times as well as he could have. He constructed a lot of top-heavy offensive rosters through the 90s with soft checking lines and lousy bluelines at a time when defensemen and goaltenders were winning MVPs.

Though in his defense, every time Craig brought in a coach to implement responsible, tough two-way play, our players tended to just ***** and moan until he got fired so EJ could come back.

We also just never had that powerful, minute eating defenseman post Murphy and the Zubov debacle. Other teams were winning Cups with Niedermayer and Stevens; Zubov and Derian Hatcher; Lidstrom and Konstantinov. We had Kevin Hatcher and Brad Werenka.

Though in his defense, he pushed pretty hard for Rob Blake at the 2001 deadline, and also tried for Phil Housley. But he didn't want to part with Milan Kraft and we ended up with Frankie Kucera because he was one of Hlinka's buddies. Yeah.

 

[mpp9]

I think as long as Maatta plays well for the remainder of the season, he's probably on the cusp of being considered a "reliable vet." Frankly, that's how Johnston's been using him since day 1.

I think he has to put together a strong postseason before we can call him a guy you can rely upon. Postseason performance is the measuring stick for the rest of the team. It should be for him as well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Dumoulin keeps playing as well as he has (Letang gets hurt again or something to get him into the lineup), would it be crazy to consider moving Maatta for top-6 wing help? Someone like JVR or Kane.

Yes, holy ****ing hell yes.

 

[penguins2946*]

Yes, holy ****ing hell yes.

Are you going to elaborate any further with that? JVR for Maatta gives us a 25 year old 30 goal scorer signed for 4 years at $4.25 million (absolute steal). We have some young D to replace Maatta (Despres, Harrington and Dumoulin primarily). It would instantly end any top-6 issues that we would have. Just saying, it would solve a lot of issues.

 

[shaler79]

If Dumoulin keeps playing as well as he has (Letang gets hurt again or something to get him into the lineup), would it be crazy to consider moving Maatta for top-6 wing help? Someone like JVR or Kane.

Pens fan in Detroit since 1988 here. Maata may not have the offensive upside of Lidstrom, but he is the closest thing I've seen to Lidstrom in awhile. Maata will be a top 4 defenseman in this league for another 15 years and will help you win cups. You don't trade away an asset like that.

 

[Fleury3434*]

Are you going to elaborate any further with that? JVR for Maatta gives us a 25 year old 30 goal scorer signed for 4 years at $4.25 million (absolute steal). We have some young D to replace Maatta (Despres, Harrington and Dumoulin primarily). It would instantly end any top-6 issues that we would have. Just saying, it would solve a lot of issues.

Toronto would never do maatta for jvr straight up. We would have to add to it for them to even consider it. I think maatta is good just like a lot of other people but this is overvaluing maatta at the moment

 

[PensPlz]

Maatta isn't untouchable and shouldn't be. If a team was willing to overpay for him and fix our winger issues, then why not? Only question being does JR have the balls to move him.

But if he does, Letang, Dumoulin, Harrington, Pouliot, Despres and either Martin or Ehrhoff seems like a solid line up next year.


I wonder what Edmonton would give us for Maatta and Scuds.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If Dumoulin keeps playing as well as he has (Letang gets hurt again or something to get him into the lineup), would it be crazy to consider moving Maatta for top-6 wing help? Someone like JVR or Kane.

I think JR has to find a way to keep Maatta and Despres. Build your defense around these two and Letang as well.

Dangle Martin, Sutter, the first in '15, DP, or even KK if it's a deal for a young cost controlled winger.

Any combo of those pieces will land you a legit top six winger.

 

[joeyjake5]

I believe the consensus on this board is the Pens will not win the Cup this year and that it may not even win the East.

Since the Pens have limited cap space and really limited assets to trade unless they want to throw away the future as Shero did, all of JRs this year, if any,moves should be for 2015 and beyond. Just bite the bullet.

First, Martin should be traded but since he is a UFA he will only bring back picks and or a prospects, hopefully a F from a contender. Since he is a UFA, the bottom feeding teams have no interest in him.

Second, Erhoff probably has priced himself out of PGH. He will get a bigger payday than Nisky and Orpik. If the pens sign him, it should be for no more than 3 yrs at 5.5MM per yr. But some GM will give him at least 4 yrs at a 6MM minimum.

As some one suggested, Letang, Maata and Erhoff are your first 3 D with Despres, Dumo, Borts and Harry rotated as your bottom 3 D. Scuds simply should not play. He is just plain bad and should be bought out next year. He is untradeable. No bottom feeding team wants him and any contending doesn't want him. Sit him and MJ please don't play him in the playoffs. Just look at what he did last year in the playoffs.

IMO, The only Pen's prospect that should be traded is Pouliett. If he brings a good F prospect (like an Etem), trade him. He will never be as good as Letang. He is weaker defensively and offensively not as gifted as Letang.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

IMO, The only Pen's prospect that should be traded is Pouliett. If he brings a good F prospect (like an Etem), trade him. He will never be as good as Letang. He is weaker defensively and offensively not as gifted as Letang.

DP is much more gifted with the puck than Letang. He can make passes on his backhand that Letang can only dream of doing on his forehand, and that's not hyperbole.

And Etem is going to be a career third liner if he's lucky.

I think this board needs to be really careful about how they view DP. Losing him will be significant. He is the best pure passer in his draft class and has offensive instincts that are off the charts.

 

[Fleury3434*]

I believe the consensus on this board is the Pens will not win the Cup this year and that it may not even win the East.

Since the Pens have limited cap space and really limited assets to trade unless they want to throw away the future as Shero did, all of JRs this year, if any,moves should be for 2015 and beyond. Just bite the bullet.

First, Martin should be traded but since he is a UFA he will only bring back picks and or a prospects, hopefully a F from a contender. Since he is a UFA, the bottom feeding teams have no interest in him.

Second, Erhoff probably has priced himself out of PGH. He will get a bigger payday than Nisky and Orpik. If the pens sign him, it should be for no more than 3 yrs at 5.5MM per yr. But some GM will give him at least 4 yrs at a 6MM minimum.

As some one suggested, Letang, Maata and Erhoff are your first 3 D with Despres, Dumo, Borts and Harry rotated as your bottom 3 D. Scuds simply should not play. He is just plain bad and should be bought out next year. He is untradeable. No bottom feeding team wants him and any contending doesn't want him. Sit him and MJ please don't play him in the playoffs. Just look at what he did last year in the playoffs.

IMO, The only Pen's prospect that should be traded is Pouliett. If he brings a good F prospect (like an Etem), trade him. He will never be as good as Letang. He is weaker defensively and offensively not as gifted as Letang.

I don't know who you are listening too. But pens are one of the top teams in the east...the pens could definitely win the cup this year. All it takes is for a team to get hot at the right time.

 

[WVP]

Guys, there's going to be a trade, probably more than one. Sounds like GMJR is going to push hard for a long term solution.

Why exactly can't this team get out of the East? Tampa is about the most complete team and the Isles would be a handful. But man this is a weak conference and our team is already better than most in its' current flawed state.

 

[joeyjake5]

NYI, NYR DET MTL, BOST TB all could eliminate the Pens in the first round and of course the Pens don't want to play the dear old flys.

 

[joeyjake5]

DP right now, as he was in the juniors, is still a defensive liability. There are at least two Ds drafted after him that were playing in the NHL last year, Trouba and Maata. If as you say, DP has all this skill then why isn't he up here right now.??????

 

[Fleury3434*]

DP right now, as he was in the juniors, is still a defensive liability. There are at least two Ds drafted after him that were playing in the NHL last year, Trouba and Maata. If as you say, DP has all this skill then why isn't he up here right now.??????

It's only December and people are already saying we have no chance LOL...wow...let's just claim tamp bay conference champs and the blues the Stanley cup champions...no point in even playing rest of the season right? Give me a break pens are just as good as any team in the east. We could def make it to the cup this year

 

[Hottubber]

DP right now, as he was in the juniors, is still a defensive liability. There are at least two Ds drafted after him that were playing in the NHL last year, Trouba and Maata. If as you say, DP has all this skill then why isn't he up here right now.??????

Why isn't Dumo or Harrington regulars? Why wasn't Despres a regular last year? Cause of Martin, Ehrhoff, Scuds, Nisky, Engo and Orpik. There is a very good chance that DP will see significant time next season