Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread VIII : To Letang or Not Letang, That is the Question

[madinsomniac]

I watched Joe Morrow play recently for the Bruins and see a heck of a player. Amazing as I said at the time that Shero would dump a good prospect for a broken down old player. This one move was the beginning of the end of Shero's tenure. I still can't get over the fact that the media and fans ever liked that trade.

Especially since we could have added a winger and some picks and maybe gotten segin instead of a washed up B Morrow. That was maybe the worse dealing ever done since the coach had zero intention of using anyone obtained that deadline even remotely correctly

 

[Michael8771*]

Admittedly I was never a Sutter fan, but trading Sutter would be extremely foolish at this point. Sutter and Bennett are who is going to keep us in games when the opposing team loads up against Sid and Geno.

Exactly right, and they'll get very favorable match ups (one would think).

 

[Alklha]

The thing about the Blues is that Oshie was struggling HUGELY before he got hurt and they kept rolling, they've scored 49 goals in 18 games and have a differential of +14.

They're being led by Tarasenko, (Power of the) Schwartz, Lehtera and then comes their vets like Steen, Berglund, Backes and also Stastny for forwards. They're deep, hell I don't even know if we can offer them anything they don't already have a decent version of.

Maybe we can get Jaskin for Dumoulin? I don't know, they just moved Leopold for a 5th round pick so maybe they don't really want any defensemen back.

Jaškin won't be available, he is just caught in a numbers game at the moment. When he is with the Blues he is only getting 4th line ice time to round his game, same as what happened with Schwartz. Management is really high on him though.

As I said earlier in the thread, Rattie is likely available in the right deal since he is probably 4th on our forward prospect chart, but Dumoulin doesn't make much sense. We've just got out of a similar situation with Ian Cole. Adding Dumoulin puts us back in that exact situation; an NHL ready player that we don't have a spot for.

 

[Michael8771*]

Jaškin won't be available, he is just caught in a numbers game at the moment. When he is with the Blues he is only getting 4th line ice time to round his game, same as what happened with Schwartz. Management is really high on him though.

As I said earlier in the thread, Rattie is likely available in the right deal since he is probably 4th on our forward prospect chart, but Dumoulin doesn't make much sense. We've just got out of a similar situation with Ian Cole. Adding Dumoulin puts us back in that exact situation; an NHL ready player that we don't have a spot for.

So, what would you guys want for Rattie?

 

[vikingGoalie]

I watched Joe Morrow play recently for the Bruins and see a heck of a player. Amazing as I said at the time that Shero would dump a good prospect for a broken down old player. This one move was the beginning of the end of Shero's tenure. I still can't get over the fact that the media and fans ever liked that trade.

I hated, and I mean hated the trade at the time. I still do. If we had kept Joe Morrow you would think that maybe instead of DP + Matta, we'd most likely end up with Forsberg+Matta+Morrow....
DP might be a great PMD but he is undersized and those guys tend to get abused in the playoffs, I'd much rather have Forsberg.

It's just unfathomable how badly Shero and Blysma misused the youth we had.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I watched Joe Morrow play recently for the Bruins and see a heck of a player. Amazing as I said at the time that Shero would dump a good prospect for a broken down old player. This one move was the beginning of the end of Shero's tenure. I still can't get over the fact that the media and fans ever liked that trade.

That is the trade that pissed me off the most since Zubby was moved. I was sitting at a Dairy Queen when I saw the trade on my iPhone and almost smashed it off the steering wheel.

It was no secret I was a huge Joe Morrow fan. Strong as hell, gifted skater, canon of a shot, top notch playmaking, very decisive with the puck. His defensive issues were overblown as hell.

I wish he had stayed with the Stars so I could root for him to do well, but now that he is in Boston, it's a double kick to the sack if he does well.

 

[metalan2]

It's still amazing to me Sill is here and Megna is not.

 

[penguins2946*]

It's still amazing to me Sill is here and Megna is not.

One fits the 4th line role and the other one doesn't. One also makes less money than the other.

 

[Michael8771*]

It's still amazing to me Sill is here and Megna is not.

''amazing'' isn't the operative term here. I dare not say it in such a forum.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It always seemed a little odd to me that Morrow was the only prospect (that I can remember) that the coaching staff specifically went out of the way to "fix." Which he is evidently just now getting over.

And yeah. That trade was kind of a disaster. Most even knew it at the time. JM looks like he's on his way to being a pretty good player, unfortunately. What a waste, overall.

 

[Artie Party]

If they extend Sutter in the offseason, what would be his cap hit be starting in the 16-17 season? Do you think 4.75/yr is enough if he keeps this level of play up?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People won't like this but I don't think the team can afford to have another 4+ million dollar 3LC. Enjoy Sutter while he's here and hope that a guy like Sundqvist can take over when he's gone.

 

[penguins2946*]

Sutter won't be extended because he won't want to sign an extension in Pittsburgh. His play this year has basically proven that he can handle 2C responsibilities, he's not going to stick around in Pittsburgh to be a 3C his entire career.

 

[wgknestrick]

One fits the 4th line role and the other one doesn't. One also makes less money than the other.

The 4th line role must be to suck, get outshot, be unable to play a break out puck on the boards, and to bleed goals against, while providing zero offense? Ie, at a high level, allow 10% more goals against than goals for.

Is that the 4th line role, because it's about all I've ever seen our 4th line do for the last 6 years. That just means that another line has to pick up that 10% to stay even with another team. It may not hurt you every game, but it adds up.

Here I was thinking a 4th line role would be to outscore the other 3rd/4th line you have to play against for a measly 8min / game at 5v5. I would love to see our #1 AHL line as a 4th line. They would probably contribute.

The traditional definition (checking, tough guys) of "4th line" is similar to the effectiveness of the enforcer in the NHL. They are both being proven to have no correlation towards winning, and to actually hurt your chances of it. Playing effective hockey should be the role of the 4th line. Not role players who are only good at 1 thing, while being terrible at everything else. The "good thing" is not enough to offset how terrible they are at 5v5.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

People won't like this but I don't think the team can afford to have another 4+ million dollar 3LC. Enjoy Sutter while he's here and hope that a guy like Sundqvist can take over when he's gone.

Sutter won't be extended because he won't want to sign an extension in Pittsburgh. His play this year has basically proven that he can handle 2C responsibilities, he's not going to stick around in Pittsburgh to be a 3C his entire career.

Yep. Been saying this since I heard his interview on XM after the trade. I can't see him being happy as a third pivot his entire career.

JR is going to have to decide between selling high on Sutter or keeping him around for the playoffs.

I guess it's still possible they extend him, but if he keeps playing like this, he is going to get well north of 4m I bet.

 

[Captain Hook]

Especially since we could have added a winger and some picks and maybe gotten segin instead of a washed up B Morrow. That was maybe the worse dealing ever done since the coach had zero intention of using anyone obtained that deadline even remotely correctly

Boston was never trading Seguin here.

I hated, and I mean hated the trade at the time. I still do. If we had kept Joe Morrow you would think that maybe instead of DP + Matta, we'd most likely end up with Forsberg+Matta+Morrow....
DP might be a great PMD but he is undersized and those guys tend to get abused in the playoffs, I'd much rather have Forsberg.

It's just unfathomable how badly Shero and Blysma misused the youth we had.

It wouldn't have changed the pick. We drafted Pouliot ahead of Forsberg in 2012. The Morrow for Morrow trade happened in 2013. We had Pouliot, Maatta, Morrow, Despres, Harrington, Dumo, Bort etc. all in the pipeline. We really had more D prospects than we had room for and still do. Bylsma refusing to play Despres enough to increase his trade value also hurt.

Anyway, I hated the Morrow for Morrow deal too. It was the one move Shero made that reeked of desperation. It was a case of a GM that hadn't won in a few years and was starting to really feel the heat/pressure.

 

[Coastal Kev]

That is the trade that pissed me off the most since Zubby was moved. I was sitting at a Dairy Queen when I saw the trade on my iPhone and almost smashed it off the steering wheel.

It was no secret I was a huge Joe Morrow fan. Strong as hell, gifted skater, canon of a shot, top notch playmaking, very decisive with the puck. His defensive issues were overblown as hell.

I wish he had stayed with the Stars so I could root for him to do well, but now that he is in Boston, it's a double kick to the sack if he does well.

Granted, I didn't get to see Joe much, but I do remember him playing for the Pens I believe overseas at the beginning of 2011 or 2012. And I saw one heck of a hockey player. Our coaching staff management of players during DB's tenure resembled a group of High School Cheerleaders put in charge of a bake sale. Calling players names, fatty, having popular clicks, hazing rookies. WHAT IN THE ...... oh... I WANT to curse so bad here... I'm not joking.... MY HEAD IS ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!! How in the .......... does ownership allow this stupidity to happen?? This coaching staff even bullied the GM!!!! Simply Amazing. ::

 

[penguins2946*]

Yep. Been saying this since I heard his interview on XM after the trade. I can't see him being happy as a third pivot his entire career.

JR is going to have to decide between selling high on Sutter or keeping him around for the playoffs.

I guess it's still possible they extend him, but if he keeps playing like this, he is going to get well north of 4m I bet.

I think we will be keeping him around this season, and if he doesn't want to extend with us, he will get moved at the draft this year. We will still have Spaling to play 3C, and the quotes from the organization seem to imply that they think highly of Spaling. I don't think we would get a Staal return, but I think we would get a pretty solid return for him, especially if he continues to play all season like he's playing now.

 

[Shwag33]

Boston was never trading Seguin here.

It wouldn't have changed the pick. We drafted Pouliot ahead of Forsberg in 2012. The Morrow for Morrow trade happened in 2013. We had Pouliot, Maatta, Morrow, Despres, Harrington, Dumo, Bort etc. all in the pipeline. We really had more D prospects than we had room for and still do. Bylsma refusing to play Despres enough to increase his trade value also hurt.

Anyway, I hated the Morrow for Morrow deal too. It was the one move Shero made that reeked of desperation. It was a case of a GM that hadn't won in a few years and was starting to really feel the heat/pressure.

Yeah people forget that Loui Eriksson was probably the best player in that deal at the time as well.

Do people saying this like yeah we should have got seguin actually think about things before they post? Actually stupid question...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd still move Sutter for a legit scoring winger in a heartbeat.

This is the sort of performance we want from Sutter. Not so we can keep him, but so we can deal him to address glaring roster issues.

As well as Sutter's playing, Goc is impressing me just as much with his strong play flanked by the two biggest possession sucks in the league. He could take over the 3C role with little dropoff.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Completely agree with that, yeah.

Sutter was never going to be content staying where he was. So long as he was living up to his end of the bargain. And with a new staff and some actual players surrounding him, he's doing just that.

If anything, I'm hoping he continues to tear it up. There are a lot of teams looking for 2LCs out there. And it's a position you pay a premium for, generally.

 

[Shwag33]

I'd still move Sutter for a legit scoring winger in a heartbeat.

This is the sort of performance we want from Sutter. Not so we can keep him, but so we can deal him to address glaring roster issues.

As well as Sutter's playing, Goc is impressing me just as much with his strong play flanked by the two biggest possession sucks in the league. He could take over the 3C role with little dropoff.

Every cup champion since I can remember basically has 3 lines than can roll; all of them had much better 3rd line centers than Goc.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'd still move Sutter for a legit scoring winger in a heartbeat.

This is the sort of performance we want from Sutter. Not so we can keep him, but so we can deal him to address glaring roster issues.

As well as Sutter's playing, Goc is impressing me just as much with his strong play flanked by the two biggest possession sucks in the league. He could take over the 3C role with little dropoff.

I agree with this. I like this team, I like the new staff, but top priority has got to be to fix the top 6. If you can add pieces without trading Sutter so be it. But if you have a chance to get a top 6 wing, move what you have to move. Just make sure the guy you trade for is on the right side of 30!!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The team needs to start taking it's own advice and surround their two best players with real talent. A big part of that is not spending a fortune on the third line. It's very important to have a third line that's effective. But it can be done without breaking the bank.

The Penguins have drafted badly at the forward position. But not badly enough that there aren't very real options there in the next year or two for depth lines. In the meantime, don't get too enamored with luxury players. That's one of the big traps the team fell into in the past.

 

[Riptide]

Sutter and Bennett are who is going to keep us in games when the opposing team loads up against Sid and Geno.

And is why MJ wants those two together on the 3rd line.