Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread VII | All UFA/trade talk, speculation here

[Gurglesons]

I'd look at Scuderi for Hemsky before the above trade. Too much quantity vs quality.

I really don't want Hemsky on the term. He would be another Jussi. Plays for his contract and then disappears. Cap hit isn't too bad.

 

[Riptide]

I really don't want Hemsky on the term. He would be another Jussi. Plays for his contract and then disappears. Cap hit isn't too bad.

Perhaps - however I don't really agree with that. But there's 2 things that this would do. First off, it moves a questionable (at best) contract from the blueline where we have lots of young depth to a forward group that's lacking in skilled players. Secondly, worse case, Hemsky is a skilled player who does play a 2 way game, and (while expensive) would not be out of place on the 3rd line. However his upside is significantly higher than Scuderi's.

For Dallas, they save ~650k of cap space and save 2.5m in actual dollars. And it helps their blueline out, while not really costing them anything.

 

[Riptide]

CBJ's front office is too smart to let Foligno go. Literally one of the best ran franchises since they got rid of Nash.

All depends on how much they're willing to spend. If he keeps up his PPG pace, he'll be getting Steen money (5.8m).

 

[mpp9]

They would have been doing Michalek a solid by moving him to his brothers team too. I don't think it was all about that. Shero wanted to clear that entire 4 million of cap space Michalek was making so he could take a run at Parise and Suter at the time. It just didn't work out.

Shero seemed to have three gears for building his top 6. Zero risk hockey trade, targeting an elite winger or standing pat with Dupuis.

I'm hoping JR is better at finding some middle ground. There are plenty of players better than Dupuis out there who don't require major assets or cap space.

 

[drpepper]

All depends on how much they're willing to spend. If he keeps up his PPG pace, he'll be getting Steen money (5.8m).

Even giving all of their RFAs raises and signing Bob to a contract bigger than Lundqvist's, CBJ will still have somewhere around $7,000,000 in cap space using a cap limit of 69,000,000 for next year. Judging by the rumors of Horton's injury, CBJ will either free up 5.3 million per year through retirement or LTIR on top of that.

If they want to, CBJ certainly can afford Steen money.

Also Hemsky for Scuderi is terrible for Dallas. Scuderi won't help their blueline, plus they are not going to trade an FA that they just signed.

 

[Riptide]

Even giving all of their RFAs raises and signing Bob to a contract bigger than Lundqvist's, CBJ will still have somewhere around $7,000,000 in cap space using a cap limit of 69,000,000 for next year. Judging by the rumors of Horton's injury, CBJ will either free up 5.3 million per year through retirement or LTIR on top of that.

If they want to, CBJ certainly can afford Steen money.

Also Hemsky for Scuderi is terrible for Dallas. Scuderi won't help their blueline, plus they are not going to trade an FA that they just signed.

If they want to, I agree completely that they can make it work cap wise. The question is how badly they want to.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. He has 1 pt in 15 games. Recent FA signing or not, that's brutal. Scuderi costs less (both in cap and real dollars) and address (to some extent) a position of need.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Shero seemed to have three gears for building his top 6. Zero risk hockey trade, targeting an elite winger or standing pat with Dupuis.

I'm hoping JR is better at finding some middle ground. There are plenty of players better than Dupuis out there who don't require major assets or cap space.

The coach has to have the cajones to kick Dupes out of the top 6 too.

 

[drpepper]

If they want to, I agree completely that they can make it work cap wise. The question is how badly they want to.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. He has 1 pt in 15 games. Recent FA signing or not, that's brutal. Scuderi costs less (both in cap and real dollars) and address (to some extent) a position of need.

Due to the lack of depth and experience in their forward group, I am pretty sure that they want to keep Foligno, and judging by the contracts for Horton and Dubinsky, CBJ is willing to pay to keep players.

Scuderi is being played as a third paring dman at even strength and total TOI behind Maatta, Letang, Ehrhoff, and Martin. Dallas doesn't need another third pairing defensemen, and Scuderi really isn't suited for anything but that. Plus, Hemsky has a shooting percentage of almost 0 at the moment. That isn't sustainable. It should go back up towards 8-9%.

I just don't see either of those moves as feasible.

 

[mpp9]

The coach has to have the cajones to kick Dupes out of the top 6 too.

We need to have the personnel first. Beau Bennett needs to stay healthy just so we can argue about which of Comeau/Dupes needs bumped down.

It just pisses me off we're having this conversation in Sid's 10th ****ing season. If our blue line pans out like I think it will, Shero should be given credit. Just as I hope we look back on JR's time here as fixing the forward group. He's already drafted one long term solution and fixed the bottom six this season. Good start.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We need to have the personnel first. Beau Bennett needs to stay healthy just so we can argue about which of Comeau/Dupes needs bumped down.

It just pisses me off we're having this conversation in Sid's 10th ****ing season. If our blue line pans out like I think it will, Shero should be given credit. Just as I hope we look back on JR's time here as fixing the forward group. He's already drafted one long term solution and fixed the bottom six this season. Good start.

When I saw the defensive depth in the 2012 draft, I remember saying a guy was going to fall and hoping Shero would take him. I honestly thought it was going to be Rielly that fell because of his injury. I didn't think they would get the 8th overall as well and add Ruopp and Dumoulin when I made those comments, however.

I just remember thinking Shero could build a really stout blueline and leverage that for wingers. After the draft I was convinced he had built the best blueline depth from the farm on up in the league.

We will always have to wonder if he was going to move Letang. I'm sure it was a hell of a package/player if it was true.

If Shero landed a big time winger or combo of a very good top six winger and a good prospect, etc, people would have had a much different view of his drafting strategy. Instead it's possible the Pens brass left Shero holding his sack.

 

[mpp9]

When I saw the defensive depth in the 2012 draft, I remember saying a guy was going to fall and hoping Shero would take him. I honestly thought it was going to be Rielly that fell because of his injury. I didn't think they would get the 8th overall as well and add Ruopp and Dumoulin when I made those comments, however.

I just remember thinking Shero could build a really stout blueline and leverage that for wingers. After the draft I was convinced he had built the best blueline depth from the farm on up in the league.

We will always have to wonder if he was going to move Letang. I'm sure it was a hell of a package/player if it was true.

If Shero landed a big time winger or combo of a very good top six winger and a good prospect, etc, people would have had a much different view of his drafting strategy. Instead it's possible the Pens brass left Shero holding his sack.

If you're planning on moving a player of that stature, rank, importance, etc, then it'd be wise to let ownership in on what you're doing. If all his hoarding of D prospects was only so he could move our #1D-man, then why not communicate that before you're about to strike a deal.

I don't think it's that unheard of for ownership to step in and not want a player who was called part of the core moved. Especially after two consecutive playoff collapses. I don't blame them for stepping in. They should have forced DB out after 2012.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If you're planning on moving a player of that stature, rank, importance, etc, then it'd be wise to let ownership in on what you're doing. If all his hoarding of D prospects was only so he could move our #1D-man, then why not communicate that before you're about to strike a deal.

I don't think it's that unheard of for ownership to step in and not want a player who was called part of the core moved. Especially after two consecutive playoff collapses. I don't blame them for stepping in. They should have forced DB out after 2012.

I'd say after two colossal playoff collapses that is the time for a GM to shake up the core.

I don't think he knew a year ahead of time he was going to move Letang. I believe he had a plan to leverage his blueline depth to round out his roster and if the Letang rumor is true, that just happened to be the deal he felt was best for his team moving fwd.

If mgmt nixes a deal like that, it definitely ****s with your plans. I think we saw in the past he was willing to deal off his blueline depth to make big deals. So I tend to believe the rumor was true.

 

[Michael8771*]

I really don't want Hemsky on the term. He would be another Jussi. Plays for his contract and then disappears. Cap hit isn't too bad.

He's not the type of player we need. We have plenty of playmakers already in the fold and that is Hemsky's forte. We need a guy in the mold of a power forward.

 

[mpp9]

I'd say after two colossal playoff collapses that is the time for a GM to shake up the core.

I don't think he knew a year ahead of time he was going to move Letang. I believe he had a plan to leverage his blueline depth to round out his roster and if the Letang rumor is true, that just happened to be the deal he felt was best for his team moving fwd.

If mgmt nixes a deal like that, it definitely ****s with your plans. I think we saw in the past he was willing to deal off his blueline depth to make big deals. So I tend to believe the rumor was true.

Maybe he should have committed to a transition year and dealt pending UFAs for forward prospects/picks and played the young D-men.

Keeping Letang may look like the correct decision at season's end. We'll see.

 

[Tender Rip]

They would have been doing Michalek a solid by moving him to his brothers team too. I don't think it was all about that. Shero wanted to clear that entire 4 million of cap space Michalek was making so he could take a run at Parise and Suter at the time. It just didn't work out.

Said it then, will say it now:
Shero could have offered Suter and Parise those deals anyway because of the 10% Summer overage, and then moved Michalek if he succeeded.

Michalek is/was to good and on too fair a contract for that to ever be a problem.

 

[Michael8771*]

The worst part about Foligno is we could've had him for Michalek and instead we have nobody with Michalek.

Foligno is precisely the type of player we could use here. He's obviously not available (it seems) but someone of that ilk would be great.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Maybe he should have committed to a transition year and dealt pending UFAs for forward prospects/picks and played the young D-men.

I don't think Orpik and Nisky combined as UFAs would have come close to returning the package Letang would have. Shero built his blueline depth and was going to make his move, and it was blocked IMHO.

I'm guessing he thought DP could fill that slot sooner than later, perhaps.

I just think if he made that move the entire dynamic of his drafting strategy would be viewed much more favorably.

We'll never know though.

Keeping Letang may look like the correct decision at season's end. We'll see.

I've been agt moving Letang, but if Shero had a deal he liked, given his trading history, I'm sure it would have brought back a hell of a player or package.

So unless we knew the guys he was going to get back, it's hard to ever even know what the best decision was. We are stuck with reality though...

 

[mpp9]

Colorado was linked to us quite a bit around the time the supposed Letang deal was nixed. I'd imagine it involved one of their studs, probably ROR+. Knowing Roy's love of the French players and their need for a PMD, it makes sense.

But as you said, unless Shero leaks something at some point, we'll never know.

I would have been fine with restocking picks/prospects and rolling with youth on defense last year. But then again if DB was still here, that probably buys him another year if we sell players off. I'm just happy he's gone. Even if it cost Shero his job.

 

[Gurglesons]

I've been agt moving Letang, but if Shero had a deal he liked, given his trading history, I'm sure it would have brought back a hell of a player or package.

So unless we knew the guys he was going to get back, it's hard to ever even know what the best decision was. We are stuck with reality though...

This This This. Letang is my favorite Penguin, but if we could've gotten a Parise type player for him, that would've been insane. Especially because he probably would've gotten a first round pick and a prospect too.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Colorado was linked to us quite a bit around the time the supposed Letang deal was nixed. I'd imagine it involved one of their studs, probably ROR+. Knowing Roy's love of the French players and their need for a PMD, it makes sense.

But as you said, unless Shero leaks something at some point, we'll never know.

I would have been fine with restocking picks/prospects and rolling with youth on defense last year. But then again if DB was still here, that probably buys him another year if we sell players off. I'm just happy he's gone. Even if it cost Shero his job.

Oh well, reality is reality.

Obviously the counter to all of this is that Shero put all of his eggs into one basket.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh well, reality is reality.

Obviously the counter to all of this is that Shero put all of his eggs into one basket.

Yeah, I liked Shero up until the last two years.

 

[attaamillo]

I'd look at Scuderi for Hemsky before the above trade. Too much quantity vs quality.

My god, this would be an awesome trade imo.

 

[billybudd]

A Philadelphia writer (forget who, not that even one of them is reliable) claimed there was a deal lined up to move Letang for Voracek AND Simmonds around the time of his contract extension.

Would have been a Hell of a trade, if true, (Kunitz-Crosby-Voracek, Simmonds-Malkin-Neal) but we'll never know if it was bull**** or not, unless Shero or Holmgren write a memoir someday (doubtful).

Never would happen now, but at the time, Letang was a Norris runner-up, Simmonds was a one-off overachiever, Voracek was perhaps perceived to be a leech and Schenn was supposed to be the next big thing (instead of the afterthought in a Richards for Simmonds deal, which is how that trade will be remembered), so it would have made at least a degree of sense for the Flyers. None of those perceptions really match two years out.

 

[attaamillo]

I've been agt moving Letang, but if Shero had a deal he liked, given his trading history, I'm sure it would have brought back a hell of a player or package.

So unless we knew the guys he was going to get back, it's hard to ever even know what the best decision was. We are stuck with reality though...

Yea, Letang at peak value would have and could have been the dynamic shift the team needed.

 

[attaamillo]

A Philadelphia writer (forget who, not that even one of them is reliable) claimed there was a deal lined up to move Letang for Voracek AND Simmonds around the time of his contract extension.

Would have been a Hell of a trade, if true, (Kunitz-Crosby-Voracek, Simmonds-Malkin-Neal) but we'll never know if it was bull**** or not, unless Shero or Holmgren write a memoir someday (doubtful).

Never would happen now, but at the time, Letang was a Norris runner-up, Simmonds was a one-off overachiever, Voracek was perhaps perceived to be a leech and Schenn was supposed to be the next big thing (instead of the afterthought in a Richards for Simmonds deal, which is how that trade will be remembered), so it would have made at least a degree of sense for the Flyers. None of those perceptions really match two years out.

Ha...I hate you for making me dream of Simmonds and Voracek on our roster right now.