Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread VII | All UFA/trade talk, speculation here

[attaamillo]

How would you feel about trading Martin to the Dallas Stars for a 2016 2nd, Scott Glennie, and Curtis McKenzie?

Some good assets without anything spectacular. Glennie and McKenzie are in line with the tweener types we already have.

I don't think they'd give up 3 pieces for a rental player though. I would do it and then re-assess what we have and/or possibly use any of those pieces as trade chips.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Just to play devils advocate here, would you rather the Pens traded Neal for Kane instead of Hornqvist?

Oh, no doubt. I proposed that trade back in May or June.

Hornqvist is a piece to the puzzle. Kane is a solution IMHO.

 

[attaamillo]

Oh, no doubt. I proposed that trade back in May or June.

Hornqvist is a piece to the puzzle. Kane is a solution IMHO.

Yea, I love what Hornqvist provides but I would take Kane as well. Hornqvist has a skill set that has so similar to Kunitz, it has kind of made him expendable. (not saying I would trade Kunitz but rather Kane brings something we dont have)

 

[Riptide]

Kunitz is not going to become untradeable by season's end. He's scoring at over a ppg pace. Again.

And until we have more depth, it's futile to discuss trading him.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yea, I love what Hornqvist provides but I would take Kane as well. Hornqvist has a skill set that has so similar to Kunitz, it has kind of made him expendable. (not saying I would trade Kunitz but rather Kane brings something we dont have)

Hornqvist just brings that net front presence the Pens have desperately needed for years dating back to the Stu Barnes days.

I said after the Neal trade, that even with Hornqvist in tow, they still need wingers who can carry the puck and create space for both Crosby and Malkin's line. Even if they kept Neal, it was going to be the same problem.

 

[Boocock]

Some good assets without anything spectacular. Glennie and McKenzie are in line with the tweener types we already have.

I don't think they'd give up 3 pieces for a rental player though. I would do it and then re-assess what we have and/or possibly use any of those pieces as trade chips.

It depends on whether or not they want to improve their defense. On the trade board, I also floated the idea of making the second round pick conditional on Martin's decision to re-sign in Dallas (otherwise, it would be a third).

McKenzie is a power forward tweener, but Glennie could be a scoring line winger reclamation project. He was referred to as a "natural goal scorer," whatever that means, back in 2009. Right now, he obviously looks like a bust. But, it's not as if the Pens haven't restored the value of struggling 1st round talents in the past (Niskanen).

 

[drpepper]

How would you feel about trading Martin to the Dallas Stars for a 2016 2nd, Scott Glennie, and Curtis McKenzie?

Keep Martin for the playoffs if that is the return.

None of it helps the Pens now.

Glennie and McKenzie are, at best, third liners and may not even develop into full-time NHLers. Glennie also isn't waiver exempt.

The 2016 2nd is the most valuable piece and that doesn't help the Pens for another 3-5 years unless they flip it.

EDIT: This return is even worse if the 2016 2nd is conditional as I doubt Martin re-signs in Dallas.

 

[billybudd]

Oh, no doubt. I proposed that trade back in May or June.

Hornqvist is a piece to the puzzle. Kane is a solution IMHO.

I'd agree with that, much as I love PH.

It's not lost on me that what I want us to do to fix the top six is extremely hard. Strong, fast, nasty guys that can score haven't ever been all that common.

But failing that, I'd rather be looking at facsimiles. Like, a guy like Foligno's not Kane, but I'll take him over someone like, idk, Hudler given this club's needs. I think it's extremely important that the Pens add size and grit up front with any skill upgrade but critical they don't get smaller.

 

[Gurglesons]

The worst part about Foligno is we could've had him for Michalek and instead we have nobody with Michalek.

 

[Boocock]

Keep Martin for the playoffs if that is the return.

None of it helps the Pens now.

Glennie and McKenzie are, at best, third liners and may not even develop into full-time NHLers. Glennie also isn't waiver exempt.

The 2016 2nd is the most valuable piece and that doesn't help the Pens for another 3-5 years unless they flip it.

EDIT: This return is even worse if the 2016 2nd is conditional as I doubt Martin re-signs in Dallas.

That's fair. Martin could also retrieve two 2nd round picks a la Douglas Murray or Johnny Boychuk. That's most certainly a better return.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd agree with that, much as I love PH.

It's not lost on me that what I want us to do to fix the top six is extremely hard. Strong, fast, nasty guys that can score haven't ever been all that common.

But failing that, I'd rather be looking at facsimiles. Like, a guy like Foligno's not Kane, but I'll take him over someone like, idk, Hudler given this club's needs. I think it's extremely important that the Pens add size and grit up front with any skill upgrade but critical they don't get smaller.

Ya, I proposed a Martin for Foligno trade awhile back.

I love that guy.

 

[drpepper]

That's fair. Martin could also retrieve two 2nd round picks a la Douglas Murray or Johnny Boychuk. That's most certainly a better return.

I think prospect-wise that it would need to be a higher ceiling player even if it is a more boom or bust candidate.

EDIT: I assume this is Nick Foligno? CBJ is lacking top 6 players; they will make every effort to re-sign him. I think the only ways he is traded is only if he doesn't want to re-sign in CBJ or a team massively overpays.

Also the top 6 needs skill. Two (maybe three counting Bennett) skill players in the top 6 is not sufficient.

 

[Shwag33]

Unless you guys don't know the difference between patrick kane and evander kane.... you guys are wrong. Hornqvist is a better player; kane is not a solution.

Sure he would help if you added him to this team, but not more than hornqvist. Kane takes games off regularly... unlike hornqvist.


I'd take blake wheeler, or hornqvist well before Kane.... maybe even ladd, who has a better attitude for the room.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ya, I proposed a Martin for Foligno trade awhile back.

I love that guy.

CBJ's front office is too smart to let Foligno go. Literally one of the best ran franchises since they got rid of Nash.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

The worst part about Foligno is we could've had him for Michalek and instead we have nobody with Michalek.

What? How do you know this? You actually do not. Ottawa needed a physical shutdown defenseman to play with Karlsson. That's what they got with Methot. Zybnek Michalek doesn't provide that physicality to his game, and he is right-handed.

Oskar Sundqvist and Harrison Ruopp look like promising pieces.

 

[Gurglesons]

What? How do you know this? You actually do not. Ottawa needed a physical shutdown defenseman to play with Karlsson. That's what they got with Methot. Zybnek Michalek doesn't provide that physicality to his game, and he is right-handed.

Oskar Sundqvist and Harrison Ruopp look like promising pieces.

I forget where the rumor was, but there was a rumor that there was a trade surrounded around Michalek for Foligino, but it fell through because Shero was trying to sign Parise or Suter and the cap space wouldn't have worked out. I think the Sens wanted to give us a cap dump along with him or something.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

What? How do you know this? You actually do not. Ottawa needed a physical shutdown defenseman to play with Karlsson. That's what they got with Methot. Zybnek Michalek doesn't provide that physicality to his game, and he is right-handed.

Oskar Sundqvist and Harrison Ruopp look like promising pieces.

There was talk Murray was interested in Michalek to play with his brother in Ottawa, but he wanted Shero to take back salary in the deal (can't recall if Foligno was that salary). Shero didn't want salary back, and thus Murray lost interest.

 

[Riptide]

Exactly this. The Pens 3rd line should be Dupuis-Sutter-Downie, and Comeau should be with Goc on the 4th line. If Johnston is set on keeping Sid with Kunitz, they should be running with:

Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett
Spaling-Malkin-Hornqvist
Dupuis-Sutter-Downie
Comeau-Goc-Adams

As much as I agree Dupuis doesn't belong in the top 6. Spaling is an even worse option.

Perhaps. But considering how poorly Dupuis doing with Malkin, Spaling couldn't be any worse. But I agree that Malkin needs some help - even if that means splitting up KCH. And if Dupuis has to be in the top 6 (I'm not sure why - as I prefer him as a 3rd line player over Spaling), then I think you have to go back to something like this:

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hornqvist - Malkin - BB
OR
Dupuis - Crosby Hornqvist/BB
Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist/BB

But ultimately something has to give, as our 2nd line needs help.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Perhaps. But considering how poorly Dupuis doing with Malkin, Spaling couldn't be any worse. But I agree that Malkin needs some help - even if that means splitting up KCH. And if Dupuis has to be in the top 6 (I'm not sure why - as I prefer him as a 3rd line player over Spaling), then I think you have to go back to something like this:

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hornqvist - Malkin - BB
OR
Dupuis - Crosby Hornqvist/BB
Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist/BB

But ultimately something has to give, as our 2nd line needs help.

If Dupuis absolutely must be with Crosby (though I don't know why management is fine with that option at this point), I'd rather it be with Hornqvist on the other wing rather than re-hashing the annoyingly frustrating KCD line again.

Give Malkin Kunitz and Bennett, and have Dupuis as the "third wheel" with Crosby and Hornqvist if the lines need shaking up.

But ideally, JR needs to bring in someone to play in the top six, and Johnston has to find the stones to keep Dupuis in a bottom six role.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think prospect-wise that it would need to be a higher ceiling player even if it is a more boom or bust candidate.

EDIT: I assume this is Nick Foligno? CBJ is lacking top 6 players; they will make every effort to re-sign him. I think the only ways he is traded is only if he doesn't want to re-sign in CBJ or a team massively overpays.

Also the top 6 needs skill. Two (maybe three counting Bennett) skill players in the top 6 is not sufficient.

CBJ's front office is too smart to let Foligno go. Literally one of the best ran franchises since they got rid of Nash.

Ya, my proposal was contingent on Foligno not wanting to sign back there, wanting too much money, etc.

But ya, I agree they badly need skill. BB staying healthy and playing like he did in the pre-season is going to be extremely key for this team, despite people not wanting to rely on that scenario.

Without him the Pens literally have no skill players outside of Crosby and Malkin. Sutter is about the only other guy with skill that can even beat a defender 1-1 and back defenders off.

 

[mpp9]

It still annoys me Shero moved Michalek back to Phoenix despite Ottawa shopping Foligno that summer for a top 4 D. We happened to have Milan's brother. And a dire need for talent up front.

I understand doing Z a solid and wanting to pursue Parise, but having Foligno right now would be huge.

 

[Riptide]

Which JJ are you talking about? I think I'd take my chances with Jagr. He's looked good on a team that can't score at all without him in New Jersey. He looked good in the Western Conference with Dallas. He looked good in Boston's ultra-defensive system. It's Jagr. He's just good. No speculation necessary.

The speculation is that he'd be better than JJ was. JJ was very good for us. I wouldn't have traded JJ for Jagr 1-1 last year.

 

[Captain Hook]

They would have been doing Michalek a solid by moving him to his brothers team too. I don't think it was all about that. Shero wanted to clear that entire 4 million of cap space Michalek was making so he could take a run at Parise and Suter at the time. It just didn't work out.

 

[Riptide]

Pouliot and or Harrington should not be in any discussion for him. Despres is a possibility with Bennett included that I might consider if I was Rutherford. I think though Edmonton is desperate and would be looking for something silly in return like Maatta. Just my gut feeling.

So no to Pouliot/Harrington - players who've proven nothing at the NHL level... but yes to Despres, someone who's proven he can play here, and look good doing it, who's still young, and easily has top 4 potential.

I can see saying no to Pouliot (I don't want to move him at all for almost anything) due to his unique skillset within the org. But Harrington? I'd move him in a heartbeat if it brought back a young winger with upside.

 

[Riptide]

How would you feel about trading Martin to the Dallas Stars for a 2016 2nd, Scott Glennie, and Curtis McKenzie?

I'd look at Scuderi for Hemsky before the above trade. Too much quantity vs quality.