BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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It was really only a thing after Neal, though, right?
I just think he got caught badly rubbernecking his own not-really-that-amazing idea. That's all.
Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster building thread - Part VI
- Thread starter Shrimper
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It was really only a thing after Neal, though, right?
I just think he got caught badly rubbernecking his own not-really-that-amazing idea. That's all.
Waffle Fries
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2013
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Here's what I think happened: They thought they'd have Sid back early for the 2011-2012 season. So, since Kunitz was the LW, the only way Neal would be able to play with Sid was if he moved to RW. Ergo, the test. Then, Neal took off with Geno, Sid came back and went right back out, and it just didn't happen.
You know my thoughts on Neal, so let me put this out there for your consumption: I could see him as a perfect 5M playoff winger and not just a leech playing on his natural LW.
EDIT: I can wait for your reply, as I'm expecting that one to put you into the hospital for a few days.
It wasn't just Neal he played on his off-wing. It was Dupuis. It was Iginla. It was Bennett. It was Gibbons. Almost everyone except for Kunitz, really. It was an obsession for him.
I explained to you that my main issue with your Neal analysis was the idea that Geno was annoyed with having to play with him. I've seen Neal play a complete game.. on both wings, and I think you undervalue him. However I think moving him back to LW might be a really good move and might help him with his consistency. That edit was pretty unnecessary.
themethod7
Registered User
Just saw this on TSN:
Haven't kept up with last few pages so maybe already posted, but hoping even with the whole GM/coach debacle over the last few weeks he's still on our radar. Not sure how good he is but have to think the prospect of potentially lining up next to Sid or Geno has to be enticing for any FA.
Haven't kept up with last few pages so maybe already posted, but hoping even with the whole GM/coach debacle over the last few weeks he's still on our radar. Not sure how good he is but have to think the prospect of potentially lining up next to Sid or Geno has to be enticing for any FA.
WayneSid9987
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2009
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I checked out some clips of him. Big kid. Can skate. Sort of Pacioretty'esque without as much fire power or toughness.
I never said Geno was annoyed to play with him. I just wondered if Geno was feeling grateful for it when the playoffs started.
BTW, c'mon, that edit was a little funny. Unnecessary, ok. But, at least grant me a little funny.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
Doesn't seem to hurt a right hander on the RW like Kessel.
Seriously, remember when Neal first got here. Couldn't score to save his life, but, man, that two way game in Dallas, you got a big taste of it.
Him on the RW, it's par for the course. James Neal scores goals. So, let's maximize that, let's cheat just a little, even if it means the rest of his game goes to ****.
He does NOT play a power forward's game on the RW, and his defensive zone work made Jokinen look good by comparison.
James Neal played RW when he first got here too, though. (edit: No he didn't) And he has played a great two way game on the right wing on quite a few occasions.
I don't have a problem moving him back to LW, but I don't expect it to be a magic fix to his consistency issues because I don't think being on the RW has anything to do with the issue.
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Vujtek
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- Oct 7, 2007
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Did he now? I do remember that being an experiment going into training camp in 2011 and he stuck there. But wasn't he LW for the remainder of 2010-11 season when he first got here?
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
did he? I might be wrong. I guess I'm just thinking of the only damn goal he scored, coming from the right wing.
ya, you're right. Kovy was on the right wing.
I still don't think being on the right is the real problem. Maybe he'd be better on the left, but being coached to play a complete game is more important than switching wings for fixing his problems.
1. I don't know that a move to LW would be a panacea, but he's more likely to play like a 5M player there in the playoffs IMO.
2. I'm still exploring a deal to see if a Bobby Ryan style deal is out there (but with two forwards coming along with a first). I think it is. Given how thin this market is and Neal's deal, I think there will be some huge offers. At the very least, I expect JR to be listening (really, to be listening to offers for anyone not named Sid or Geno).
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
I still don't think a Bobby Ryan type deal is what we should do. We need more players as good as Neal. We don't need to turn our only wing as good as Neal into a few players who aren't as good as Neal. Its easier to find two guys not as good as Neal than it is to find one guy as good as Neal.
totally agreed. I see some of the fanbase being trade-happy when it comes to James Neal. we should keep Neal even more now that a new coach/system will be put in place.
I have the same feeling about Letang, although in his case admittedly the risk is higher since his NMC kicks in this summer.
what the new GM should do is unload as many risky contracts as he can for over the hill players like Dupuis/Scuderi/Kunitz and let Orpik/Glass/Pyatt/Niskanen go.
mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
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He's our most valuable asset right now outside of Sid and Geno. Like Jiggy said, even package him with one of our D prospects and maybe a 1st.
That can get you 2-3 pieces that make us a better team moving forward. We can make small changes and bring in stopgap solutions like we have, but we're not solving the problem, just delaying it. And we'll be stuck with a very elderly group of wingers when Sid and Geno are 30. We need to bring in youth. And teams arent trading you that unless you're willing to deal.
Mr Jiggyfly
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- Jan 29, 2004
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With or without Neal, this team has never had a problem putting up points in the regular season during the Crosby/Malkin era. So this whole defense of keeping Neal because he scores lotsa goals in the regular season means very little to me.
The ongoing debate for the last few years has always been "this team needs wingers who can help Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs".
What has Neal done in his time here to help these guys in the playoffs? Anyone trying to defend him will need to fling out a bunch of excuses.
No coach will make him a better skater or a better 1-1 player. It will always be a problem. If Neal was a third wheel guy, he would be ideal. However, he is never going to be a guy that will make Crosby or Malkin better in the playoffs.
People need to stop looking at his regular season stats and watch how teams play agt Neal come playoff time. He is predictable and good coaches know where to set their zones with a guy like Neal. Anyone that understands systematic play and is paying attention can see it for themselves.
This is a pattern, not a coincidence.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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When he's with Malkin, Neal does for him in the playoffs exactly what he does for him in the regular season: execute give-and-gos, find openings, and act as triggerman.
That's why he has the 3rd best PPG and the best GPG among our forwards in the 2 playoffs he was used in that role. I really have no idea where this idea that Neal's a perennial playoff no-show comes from. Then again, I never really understood why so many people pined for Semin to help us in the playoffs either.
As far as Neal goes, I think he needs to be moved..... to Crosby's wing. I think the Maklin-Neal combo has gone a little stale. Ever since the 50 goal season, Malkin has felt some unnecessary need to always defer to Neal and never take shots himself. If Malkin isn't shooting, that makes it easier to defend against those two. Also, I think the Crosby-Kunitz combo has gone stale as well. I'd like to see the next coach try some different line combos to start next year in the top 6:
X-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
X-Crosby-Neal
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Darth Vitale
Dark Matter
My take from GRs comments (I shall now refer to him as General Rutherford):
1. Gladams and maybe the whole 4th line, gone. Almost a certainty IMO. Not sure if he'll try to sign Goc to be 4C but wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the "signings we want to do that puts us near the cap".
2. Fleury stays and won't go anywhere for 2014-2015 unless we get an offer. We might just let him walk next year if there's no one at teh deadline that can be had and/or the offers are poor. He did not seem the least bit negative about Fleury, albeit if he wanted to trade the guy he would only talk him up.
3. Dupuis is likely to get demoted to the third or fourth line and GR will try to acquire someone in FA who if not ideal, at least is more skilled than Dupuis.
4. Neal is going nowhere. JM said "we need to make sure we have enough good players for both Sid and Geno". Neal is a good player and any trade we make is not likely to bring back a better player, sorry. That's the reality in the NHL / when you're not making playstation trades. And no Evander Kane is not better than James Neal, and either way it's addition by subtraction and it's clear he wants to add skill, not subtract it. If anyone gets moved from the big name players it would probably be Letang even though I think that's dumb also unless the return is BIG.
Beyond that I don't see any acquisitions being made. Just minor league promotions to fill spots left by unsigned veteran D. Next year is much more likely to be a busy summer. I could see him doing something crazy like making a huge trade to get McDavid. Probably wouldn't involve Letang because of his NMC / LMC, and I doubt he'd agree to go to a lottery team unless it happened to be a good team that ended up with a ton of injuries.
1. Gladams and maybe the whole 4th line, gone. Almost a certainty IMO. Not sure if he'll try to sign Goc to be 4C but wouldn't be surprised if that is one of the "signings we want to do that puts us near the cap".
2. Fleury stays and won't go anywhere for 2014-2015 unless we get an offer. We might just let him walk next year if there's no one at teh deadline that can be had and/or the offers are poor. He did not seem the least bit negative about Fleury, albeit if he wanted to trade the guy he would only talk him up.
3. Dupuis is likely to get demoted to the third or fourth line and GR will try to acquire someone in FA who if not ideal, at least is more skilled than Dupuis.
4. Neal is going nowhere. JM said "we need to make sure we have enough good players for both Sid and Geno". Neal is a good player and any trade we make is not likely to bring back a better player, sorry. That's the reality in the NHL / when you're not making playstation trades. And no Evander Kane is not better than James Neal, and either way it's addition by subtraction and it's clear he wants to add skill, not subtract it. If anyone gets moved from the big name players it would probably be Letang even though I think that's dumb also unless the return is BIG.
Beyond that I don't see any acquisitions being made. Just minor league promotions to fill spots left by unsigned veteran D. Next year is much more likely to be a busy summer. I could see him doing something crazy like making a huge trade to get McDavid. Probably wouldn't involve Letang because of his NMC / LMC, and I doubt he'd agree to go to a lottery team unless it happened to be a good team that ended up with a ton of injuries.
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mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
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You can in no way draw conclusions from a new GM talking up his roster. If anything, I expect trades b/c of being up against the cap and free agency not solving our problems.
He said he wants players for Sid and Geno. And in particular with Sid, someone's who better suited for him. That leaves open the possibility of moving Neal+ for a couple players to play in our top 6. Or in a swap for a player that better fits what we're missing up front.
This team plays on the perimeter as default mode. That needs to change.
He said he wants players for Sid and Geno. And in particular with Sid, someone's who better suited for him. That leaves open the possibility of moving Neal+ for a couple players to play in our top 6. Or in a swap for a player that better fits what we're missing up front.
This team plays on the perimeter as default mode. That needs to change.
Darth Vitale
Dark Matter
I'm just going on the vibe I got from his two pressers. Of course it's possible he moves Neal in a package for two "almost as good as Neal" type players... then there's no subtraction. I don't know. Maybe if the new coach believes that Neal is an issue I could see it but the vibe I have right now is "add what we can within the constraints of the cap" not "sell off 40G / 80 point wingers because he had a subpar season and was neutralized in the playoffs under Disco Dan's awesome system which never changed."
The distinct vibes I got were:
1. Fleury improved last year and when he's steady he's "a very, very good goalie". I expect he'll play for us next year. Could all be positioning for a trade but seems unlikely to me. I hope it is but I doubt it is, put it that way. I've learned not to read too much between the lines with stuff like this.
2. Sid needs someone with more skill on his line, Dupuis is not skilled enough.
3. If we can afford it, Geno also needs more skill (hence, subtracting Neal seems unlikely). That said Neal was the one player he said nothing about in all this so anything's possible. I just don't think it's probable anywhere except the HFB hive-mind.
4. Letang got the "very well prepared, very good player" treatment also. Did not get the sense of "we'll move him if the offer is right".
5. Adams (and likely Glass) are history.
6. Up in the air is questions of promoting young guys however that is clearly Billy G's mode, based on his comments. I suspect that will be a recommendation made to GR and the most likely two guys are Despres and Dumoulin. The former because he was ready two years ago, the latter because Rutherford knows him well and he is ready also.
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
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No man, describing what Neal does in the regular season to create room for Malkin is not an accurate account of what happens come playoff time. Malkin started to catch fire AFTER he stopped playing with Neal. Aside from a couple of games in these playoffs, any line Neal was on, was ass.
Neal has never been a money guy for this team in the playoffs. I looked at the stats before this years playoffs and pointed that out, then Yohe, I believe, pointed out the same thing after the playoffs with updated stats: He has scored all of his goals in 7 games. That means he has gone 31 playoff games without a goal. That's disturbing, albeit an accurate representation of his failure to show up come playoff time.
He isn't a playoff performer. Period. Some may not want to hear it, but it's the truth.
I find it comical many of the same people who want to hold onto Neal because he scores a lot in the regular season, want to deal Letang instead. Letang, including this years playoffs, has been a big game player and was an integral part of their cup run. He has proven he can step up his game in the playoffs, Neal never has. Yet people who want this team to stop collapsing in the playoffs want a playoff no show like Neal, over a proven playoff performer like Letang.
Where is the logic?
Neal has yet to step up in the playoffs, but all I hear is they need to keep him because he is a 40 goal regular season scorer. Again, when has this team ever struggled to score goals in the regular season in the Malkin and Crosby era?
SaintLouHaintBlue
Have another donut
I don't think we need to buy Adams out, actually.
Glass can definitely go.
Adams can be a healthy scratch, and that wouldn't be too terrible, in my opinion - since he has a year left.
Also, aren't neal's 2012 postseason stats pretty good? 10 points, 6 goals in 13 playoff games.
Glass can definitely go.
Adams can be a healthy scratch, and that wouldn't be too terrible, in my opinion - since he has a year left.
Also, aren't neal's 2012 postseason stats pretty good? 10 points, 6 goals in 13 playoff games.
Crosberry87
Registered User
I don't want him anywhere near this team ever again. God forbid there's just one injury and that tool finds himself back in the lineup. I won't risk that. Can't we bury him in Wilkes-Barre (or even Wheeling) for a year to have a slighly less cap hit? Hell, I'd even outright cut the guy and just take the hit for a year.
Black Label
Registered User
I don't think the Penguins will have much interest, tbh. Sekac was one of the best forwards on the Prague team this year, but he needs a top six role to thrive. He isn't that great defensively, but is very creative offensively. I've seen him play 3-4 times and he kind of reminds me of Linus Omark with a slightly bigger frame. Omark had tons of offensive talent but was useless in a checking role.
SaintLouHaintBlue
Have another donut
Nah. It feels that way because of the way he was used by Byslma.
If he spots someone in case more injuries - I don't see the problem (it's just for one year). He's just an incredibly generic hockey player.
Maybe he can be placed on waivers? (I'm not sure how that works)
I think I saw it posted that you can't bury him in the AHL if he's 35+, or something like that.
Randy Butternubs
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