Speculation: 2014-15 Line Combos

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Minnesota

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I think it's inevitable that Niederreiter eventually surpasses Coyle. I hate referring to draft position, but Nino was drafted 23 spots higher than Coyle for a reason. Not to mention their positions (RW vs. C) often provide varying opportunities for offensive production.
 

Lapa

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Nino is already better than Coyle, IMO. Why Coyle gets more ice time, I have no idea.
 

DrPP

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Coyle plays it safe and so does Yeo. Why go out and win a game when you can play not to lose.

Coyle had a lot more history with Yeo last year, didn't he? Maybe things will flip this year as Yeo will trust him more, Nino is better and seems to have a higher ceiling.
 

BagHead

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Dec 23, 2010
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Bit of revisionist history with all this talk of Nino being the better player all year, but Coyle getting the call over him the entire time. Coyle did get the call over him most of time time (not always) but Nino did slump for a big portion of the end of last season, and the middle of it. I'm not saying Coyle didn't slump, too (he did), but at times Coyle was better than Nino, and at times Nino was better than Coyle.

I would even argue Coyle had the better playoff. Nino had a really productive game 7 after looking lost most of the series against Colorado, while Coyle was consistently pretty decent, but never amazing. Both were, in my opinion, decent against Chicago (until Coyle's shoulders both died). Coaches almost always take the less streaky player, and that is Coyle.

That said, yes Nino has more gamebreaker potential than Coyle, you are correct.
 

MN_Gopher

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Bit of revisionist history with all this talk of Nino being the better player all year, but Coyle getting the call over him the entire time. Coyle did get the call over him most of time time (not always) but Nino did slump for a big portion of the end of last season, and the middle of it. I'm not saying Coyle didn't slump, too (he did), but at times Coyle was better than Nino, and at times Nino was better than Coyle.

I would even argue Coyle had the better playoff. Nino had a really productive game 7 after looking lost most of the series against Colorado, while Coyle was consistently pretty decent, but never amazing. Both were, in my opinion, decent against Chicago (until Coyle's shoulders both died). Coaches almost always take the less streaky player, and that is Coyle.

That said, yes Nino has more gamebreaker potential than Coyle, you are correct.

You could make the case Nino did not produce with Brodz, Cooke and the other 3rd liners. While Coyle slumped on the top 2 lines.

Nino's longest pointless streaks were 7, 6 and 6
Coyle's were 8, 7 and 5

Both had two scoring streaks of 3 or more games.

Nino scored 6 more points in 11 more games.

I would look at those numbers and think 100% Nino was more consistant. With weaker linemates and less ice time, including much less PP time.
 

this providence

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I don't see Koivu meshing well with Vanek but we shall see I guess. A line of Vanek, Koivu, and Coyle is a line that is almost completely dependant upon Koivu carrying the the puck through the neutral zone in transition; which Koivu can do but he needs more outlets to help him out if he's going to continue to play so low. Vanek has always been a player who's going to leave the D zone early and not be much of a factor in the neutral zone. And Coyle hasn't proven he can maintain the puck anywhere but on the boards at this point.

Parise, Granlund, and Pominville we already know works. However, I would prefer to get Vanek on Granlund's wing...
 

BusQuets

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You guys are putting way too much weight on the lines especially this early. At some point in the season i'm pretty sure we will see Vanek-Granlund-Pominville line also.
 

Nharris31

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Aug 9, 2013
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You guys are putting way too much weight on the lines especially this early. At some point in the season i'm pretty sure we will see Vanek-Granlund-Pominville line also.

He also said that it could be a different line the next day. It's just what he has of right now.
 

rynryn

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You guys are putting way too much weight on the lines especially this early. At some point in the season i'm pretty sure we will see Vanek-Granlund-Pominville line also.

yup.

but people need something to get worked up about. On the bright side it beats the "i don't know why Coyle get's more ice time than Nino" daily re-hash. Some people really need to complain because they're too uncomfortable if things are going great--it's always nice to be able to change it up. It's really too bad Yeo didn't go off the rails and say something like "we're really expecting one of our guys to come out of camp and challenge for a top six role".

edit: related pondering...if a top six guy goes down, do you think both lines will be juggled immediately or will he just plug in a direct replacement and leave the other five guys play with who they were playing with?
 
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Lapa

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you have no idea? it's because of the role that line was playing.

You don't think Nino could have done the same, and more? Coyle is more suited to a 3rd line role than Nino anyways.

And no, people don't need something to get worked up about. It's a speculation about our lineup on a hockey forum.
 

MNRube

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Oct 20, 2013
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Watching the Chicago series on NHL network has me excited. We hung with the Hawks and showed we can make a serious cup run soon. Plus I think losing Moulson and Heatley for Vanek is a massive plus. We have young talent at every position. Should be a great year. Here is my take on the lines

Parise Granlund Vanek
Nino Koivu Pominville
Cooke Haula Coyle
Fontaine Brodziak Bulmer/Zucker/Keranan/Almond​

Wouldn't mind seeing Haula get some minutes in top 6 to see what he can do. Mikko looked slow last year if he continues to decline, he still can be a nice third liner. Think Nino deserves top 6 minutes. Parise and Vanek should work well together. I like what Bulmer brings to the table, personally. Wouldn't mind seeing Zucker where Cooke is and dropping Cooke to 4th.

Suter Spurgeon
Scandella Brodin
Ballard Folin/Dumba

Spurgeon was awesome in the playoffs. He could take another step this year which would be nice. Like that second pairing and both have another level they can still reach. Ballard's turnovers drive me nuts, but he has another year left and the front office/Yeo are obviously fans. The blueline looks like it is on the cusp of being one of the very best in the league.


Harding
Kuemper

Harding is the man, but we give him tons of rest. Kuemper was big last year and is a very nice insurance policy.
 

Puhis

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You don't think Nino could have done the same, and more? Coyle is more suited to a 3rd line role than Nino anyways.

And no, people don't need something to get worked up about. It's a speculation about our lineup on a hockey forum.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Coyle is more suited to be that big body presence on a scoring line. He does the hard work, grinds in the corners, is solid defensively, has a good work ethic and makes simple, low-risk passes. Now, I'm not saying that Nino can't do that, too, but Nino is more suited for a middle-six scoring role. And since he is a lefty, Yeo rather utilizes him in the 3rd than 2nd line.

I agree that Nino is a better 2nd liner than Coyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a better fit. With that said, Nino has shown to be capable of playing RW during his NA career, which is a plus, and means that he can be swapped with Coyle in case we need scoring late in the game or when the inevitable injuries strike.

Speaking of unseen cards, Michael Keränen seems to be forgotten around here lately. Yes, he probably needs some seasoning in the AHL, but I see his potential as a good middle-six tweener. He can play pretty much all forward positions, and he definitely brings some offense to the table with his world-class vision and great passing. The problem is his size and the fact that he isn't that good defensively, which might be a problem, knowing how much emphasis Yeo puts on defensive ability.

All in all, we currently have plenty of good middle-six wingers, especially 3rd liners. There are, however, only 4 positions there, and 3 of them will go to Nino, Coyle and one of Vanek/Parise/Pominville, depending on what the "1st" line will be. This leaves the following players battling for that one spot:

Cooke
Zucker
Almond
Keränen
Fontaine
Schroeder

In addition, we'll have to see whether Graovac, Phillips, Bulmer or even Bussieres can take that next step this year.

All in all, while our pipelines are lacking in that elite talent, we still have plenty of good players coming up or already there.

So, to take all that into consideration, where does that leave our 4th line? With the amount of skilled wingers we have, does it even make sense to have a traditional, grinding 4th line? Of course, while on paper a skilled line capable of creating a serious mismatch might sound appealing, the truth is that there is a good reason as to why grinding lines exist, and that can't always be measured. Having three guys who are really tough to play against is often effective in wearing down the opposition. Especially with our rather young and inexperienced squad, we need the Kyle Brodziaks and Matt Cookes to do their job. Utility players will always be underrated. Instead of handing out roster spots, make the kids fight for it. That creates healthy competition right from the training camp, even more so than usual. If you do well, you'll have your chance to play with the big boys. If not, you'll be riding the bus. Now, I'm not saying playing in Iowa is the end of the world, but presented with those choices, which one would you choose? Exactly.

So, to summarize: We have plenty of middle-six wingers, 4 or 5 top-six wingers, 3 centers suited for their respective roles and surprisingly few utility players. Where will that take us? Who knows. Hopefully far. All I know is that the opening line-up is very unlikely to be the same than game 82 line-up, even without any injuries.

Also, Iowa looks considerably better than last year with more scorers and skill players. We are one of the deepest teams in the league, and while we lack that game-breaking talent, we can compensate it with good chemistry and difficult match-ups.

In other words, Mike Yeo has to show what he's capable of this year. He, in my opinion, is the single biggest factor on our success this year. If he's able to exploit the match-ups and play the right guys together, we have a real chance of turning some heads, just like Colorado did last year. If he's not, then we'll be out of the playoffs and he'll be looking for a new job. Yes, our goaltending situation is still uncertain and yes, our D could be better, but this group still has a ton of potential - if used right.
 

Lapa

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I think it has more to do with the fact that Coyle is more suited to be that big body presence on a scoring line. He does the hard work, grinds in the corners, is solid defensively, has a good work ethic and makes simple, low-risk passes. Now, I'm not saying that Nino can't do that, too, but Nino is more suited for a middle-six scoring role. And since he is a lefty, Yeo rather utilizes him in the 3rd than 2nd line.I agree that Nino is a better 2nd liner than Coyle, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'd be a better fit. With that said, Nino has shown to be capable of playing RW during his NA career, which is a plus, and means that he can be swapped with Coyle in case we need scoring late in the game or when the inevitable injuries strike.

This is exactly why I'd want Coyle to the 3rd line rather than the 2nd line. What Coyle does best is exactly what a perfect 3rd liner does, IMO. Nino's style of play is much more suited to the 2nd line. Nino is better offensively, so putting him to Koivu's wing would hopefully bring us some more offense.

Don't get me wrong, I like Coyle. A lot. I just think Nino has more offensive potential, and that Coyle is more a 3rd line type player than a 2nd liner.
 

BagHead

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Dec 23, 2010
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This is exactly why I'd want Coyle to the 3rd line rather than the 2nd line. What Coyle does best is exactly what a perfect 3rd liner does, IMO. Nino's style of play is much more suited to the 2nd line. Nino is better offensively, so putting him to Koivu's wing would hopefully bring us some more offense.

Don't get me wrong, I like Coyle. A lot. I just think Nino has more offensive potential, and that Coyle is more a 3rd line type player than a 2nd liner.

I can understand where you guys who want Nino on the top line instead of Coyle are coming from, but I still have to agree with Puhis. Coyle has been the better fit there simply because he's a safer player, and more consistent (not talking offensively, here, but defensively).

Before you go jumping on me for arguing for Coyle on an offensive line, using defensive skill, consider what we saw when Nino did play next to Koivu. He was fast, went to the net, and was inconsistent defensively (though it was a small sample size). Nino is basically like a young, big Parise on offense. The only problem with that is that we already have the actual Parise on that line. Coyle compliments that line by fully utilizing both Koivu and Parise, by using strong board play and safe, quick passes. He isn't going to be the most skilled guy on his line, but instead is more of a Renberg/Prospal/Morrison type, who compliments everyone else on his line, and makes that line well rounded. Even when Coyle isn't firing on all cylinders offensively, his defensive play is still solid.
 

57special

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I think the Coyle/Nino discussions should be suspended till they get more ice time and we really know what sort of players they are. Both look to be valuable players going forward, and have yet to reach their peak. That's why they are mentioned in so many HF trade scenarios.
 

Lapa

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Feb 21, 2010
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I can understand where you guys who want Nino on the top line instead of Coyle are coming from, but I still have to agree with Puhis. Coyle has been the better fit there simply because he's a safer player, and more consistent (not talking offensively, here, but defensively).

Before you go jumping on me for arguing for Coyle on an offensive line, using defensive skill, consider what we saw when Nino did play next to Koivu. He was fast, went to the net, and was inconsistent defensively (though it was a small sample size). Nino is basically like a young, big Parise on offense. The only problem with that is that we already have the actual Parise on that line. Coyle compliments that line by fully utilizing both Koivu and Parise, by using strong board play and safe, quick passes. He isn't going to be the most skilled guy on his line, but instead is more of a Renberg/Prospal/Morrison type, who compliments everyone else on his line, and makes that line well rounded. Even when Coyle isn't firing on all cylinders offensively, his defensive play is still solid.

Fair enough.

Biggest reason I'd want Nino there is because I believe Nino would improve Koivu's line offensively. I think Nino would do good for Koivu's line, since Nino's style of play could be a better fit for a line that's supposed to produce quite a bit offensively. I feel like Coyle's board play would fit the 3rd line better, while making the 2nd line a bit better offensively.

Two great young players, both have their strengths. Matter of preference, I guess.
 

ThatGuy22

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Oct 11, 2011
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I can understand where you guys who want Nino on the top line instead of Coyle are coming from, but I still have to agree with Puhis. Coyle has been the better fit there simply because he's a safer player, and more consistent (not talking offensively, here, but defensively).

Before you go jumping on me for arguing for Coyle on an offensive line, using defensive skill, consider what we saw when Nino did play next to Koivu. He was fast, went to the net, and was inconsistent defensively (though it was a small sample size). Nino is basically like a young, big Parise on offense. The only problem with that is that we already have the actual Parise on that line. Coyle compliments that line by fully utilizing both Koivu and Parise, by using strong board play and safe, quick passes. He isn't going to be the most skilled guy on his line, but instead is more of a Renberg/Prospal/Morrison type, who compliments everyone else on his line, and makes that line well rounded. Even when Coyle isn't firing on all cylinders offensively, his defensive play is still solid.

Fun fact, the only Wing that got scored on at a faster rate with Koivu than Coyle, was Heatley.

Koivu W/ Coyle 0.916 GA/20

Koivu w/Nino 0.694 GA/20
 

rynryn

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if they plan on looking for easier matchups for line one instead of seeking the hardest matchups like last year, then i can see them flipping Nino and Coyle. I guess it depends on how much they trust Haula and Cooke, or how worn they'll be from PKs.
 

BagHead

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Dec 23, 2010
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Fun fact, the only Wing that got scored on at a faster rate with Koivu than Coyle, was Heatley.

Koivu W/ Coyle 0.916 GA/20

Koivu w/Nino 0.694 GA/20

Notice the part where you bolded sample size in my quote. Sample size can effect stats drastically, which is why I brought it up, even though it hurt my argument. In this case, neither Heatley nor Nino played anywhere near large enough stints with Koivu and Parise to be able to draw conclusions from stats.

Using just those stats, that means Fontaine should be the front-runner for first line this year. He scored a goal in his only game with Koivu and Parise and looked great!
 
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