Pronman just focuses on skill and smarts most of the time. He doesn't really place much emphasis on how much a guy's game will transfer to the NHL, which is important.
Prospect Info: 2014-15 Colorado Avalanche Junior Prospects Thread II (CHL & Europe)
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Yeah I don't buy that. Pronman's just got a little-guy-fetish, he can say that it's because he doesn't place emphasis on size and how a player's game will translate but there's been enough little guys without skill who he's hyped, that it's become pretty clear he just wants to see more little guys make it...I'm left to assume that Pronman is not a large man himself and that his rankings are an advanced form of little-man-syndrome.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
He should have Hishon at #3 then.
Mironov and Compher aren't skill guys but I suppose they could make the NHL sooner than most others on the list.
Mironov and Compher aren't skill guys but I suppose they could make the NHL sooner than most others on the list.
- Dec 4, 2002
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Also Wood wouldn't be on the list if he only had a little man fetish.
Pronman has his ideas of what makes a good prospect. He likes offensive upside, skill, smarts... he cares little about grit, size (either way), and NHL translation.
Compher has a lot more skill than people give him credit for.
Pronman has his ideas of what makes a good prospect. He likes offensive upside, skill, smarts... he cares little about grit, size (either way), and NHL translation.
Compher has a lot more skill than people give him credit for.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
After Hishon's continuing failure in the AHL I don't think even a little-guy-fetishist could justify putting him any higher than Pronman already has...hell I don't think you can justifty putting him even that high. Same reason you can't justify getting Elliott in there. The skillset may have once been there and they're small, but they just have not developed how they needed to to become NHLers despite their size and if he just ignored that it would hurt his credibility.
Sure it's not just being little that he looks at, but Pronman clearly gives guys a boost just for not being big. JTC's skill level is under-rated, but at the same time it's not that under-estimated and I'm sure if he were 6'1" 210-215 he wouldn't rate nearly as highly on pronman's list despite that under-hyped skill level.
Wood and Mironov are solid counterpoints, but Wood was the last guy on the list, the only smurf he could've picked over him was Elliott, and that would just give the game away. Mironov is a surprise for me to see this high on Pronman's ranking though, especially since he's not particularly skilled...he's a lot more skilled than the Kasparaitis comp some people ran with, but he's still not going to put up 20 or more points in the NHL.
Pronman does bump guys up for skill even if they are big, but if he's picking between two similarly skilled players he takes the little guy first more often than not...obviously there are going to be some exceptions to his preferences, but in general that dynamic has smacked me in the face whenever I've looked over his work.
Sure it's not just being little that he looks at, but Pronman clearly gives guys a boost just for not being big. JTC's skill level is under-rated, but at the same time it's not that under-estimated and I'm sure if he were 6'1" 210-215 he wouldn't rate nearly as highly on pronman's list despite that under-hyped skill level.
Wood and Mironov are solid counterpoints, but Wood was the last guy on the list, the only smurf he could've picked over him was Elliott, and that would just give the game away. Mironov is a surprise for me to see this high on Pronman's ranking though, especially since he's not particularly skilled...he's a lot more skilled than the Kasparaitis comp some people ran with, but he's still not going to put up 20 or more points in the NHL.
Pronman does bump guys up for skill even if they are big, but if he's picking between two similarly skilled players he takes the little guy first more often than not...obviously there are going to be some exceptions to his preferences, but in general that dynamic has smacked me in the face whenever I've looked over his work.
If he thinks you can't make it as a top 6 forward or as a OFD you're pretty much an afterthought to him. You should check out the Habs ranking, that's even more laughable than this.
Top 10 des espoirs des Canadiens
1-Charles Hudon
2-Noah Juulsen
3-Nikita Scherbak
4-Martin Reway
5-Artturi Lehkonen
6-Jarred Tinordi
7-Zachary Fucale
8-Sven Andrighetto
9-Jérémy Grégoire
10-Michael McCarron
Top 10 des espoirs des Canadiens
1-Charles Hudon
2-Noah Juulsen
3-Nikita Scherbak
4-Martin Reway
5-Artturi Lehkonen
6-Jarred Tinordi
7-Zachary Fucale
8-Sven Andrighetto
9-Jérémy Grégoire
10-Michael McCarron
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
- Feb 24, 2012
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Hudon at #1 is pretty funny.
I don't think Pronman elevates smaller players for the sake of it. I think he just values their skills set regardless of size.
If Compher was 6'1" with his skill set and style of play... he is still a Sabre prospect and in nearly every top 50/75 list.
I don't think Pronman elevates smaller players for the sake of it. I think he just values their skills set regardless of size.
If Compher was 6'1" with his skill set and style of play... he is still a Sabre prospect and in nearly every top 50/75 list.
Kid has talent. Really smart. Really good puck skills. Legit 2way player. Only problem is how his game translates. I'm right there with Henchman. Too short and not enough skating ability to make up for it. But apparently he is focused on becoming a better skater. If he does, then I could see a good nhl player. But until he develops his skating it's hard to rank him over others.
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
"The only problem". Yes I recognize that.
Well you did answer the question I posed.
Hishon is 24 in october. Not sure he counts as a prospect anymore.
I'd like to hear what a lot of people feel about the Avs prospect pool, preferably people with a different scouting philosophy. I always like to hear what both sides think. I've always liked Pronmans views and he is friendly guy and talks to people on twitter etc.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Bender
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2002
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cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Mironov is playing right now. Dynamo are getting out played so far but it's still early in the first.
http://livetv.sx/en/eventinfo/335932_dynamo_moscow_sibir/#_
Mironov is on the first unit PK for Dynamo here on the first kill of the game.
E: I totally forgot that Vincour was in the KHL.
Edit2: Dynamo aren't playing very well with the puck...but I'm still jealous of their PP. *sigh*
Edit3: Man Mironov was just left out to dry on that 2-2 goal. After a lost puck battle around their own blueline Dynamo allowed a 2-on-1 within their own zone that was in the back of the net before the other 4 skaters even got below/inside the faceoff dots.
Edit4: Mironov again out there on the PK, he moves quite well and doesn't hesitate with deciding where to go for the most part. Though he can deliver insane hits, he really isn't that nasty out there. Would definitely pick Meloche over him purely in regards to mean streak and constant physicality. Though this isn't a weakness for him at all, it just isn't a big part of his game outside of those massive hits; at least from the games I've seen him in.
Mironov just made a really nice read to jump up the ice after disrupting the cycle to lead the breakout; his linemate tanguay'd offsides though. Nice burst there by the youngin.
As an aside I would so love to see an NHL season played on the big ice, even if it's just for a year/the-regular-season.
Edit5: Dynamo again on the PK and Mironov did a very nice job stepping up at the boards around the blueline to stop Novosibirsk from getting into the zone and dumped it back out himself.
http://livetv.sx/en/eventinfo/335932_dynamo_moscow_sibir/#_
Mironov is on the first unit PK for Dynamo here on the first kill of the game.
E: I totally forgot that Vincour was in the KHL.
Edit2: Dynamo aren't playing very well with the puck...but I'm still jealous of their PP. *sigh*
Edit3: Man Mironov was just left out to dry on that 2-2 goal. After a lost puck battle around their own blueline Dynamo allowed a 2-on-1 within their own zone that was in the back of the net before the other 4 skaters even got below/inside the faceoff dots.
Edit4: Mironov again out there on the PK, he moves quite well and doesn't hesitate with deciding where to go for the most part. Though he can deliver insane hits, he really isn't that nasty out there. Would definitely pick Meloche over him purely in regards to mean streak and constant physicality. Though this isn't a weakness for him at all, it just isn't a big part of his game outside of those massive hits; at least from the games I've seen him in.
Mironov just made a really nice read to jump up the ice after disrupting the cycle to lead the breakout; his linemate tanguay'd offsides though. Nice burst there by the youngin.
As an aside I would so love to see an NHL season played on the big ice, even if it's just for a year/the-regular-season.
Edit5: Dynamo again on the PK and Mironov did a very nice job stepping up at the boards around the blueline to stop Novosibirsk from getting into the zone and dumped it back out himself.
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Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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Ugh, please god no. It would be like the 2004 New Jersey Devils playing against the 2004 New Jersey Devils every game. The big ice is great entertainment for junior and things like that where there are more mistakes and just pure speed and skill. The problem is that players of NHL caliber have NHL caliber brains and are being coached by the best coaches in the world. These guys rarely mess up or get caught out of position which would just lead to two teams trapping against one another.
On the other side of things though is that there will be a lot more games going to OT. 3 on 3 OT on the big ice would be pretty cool to see.
- Feb 24, 2012
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This! This! This!
Big ice is the absolute worst! It makes hockey a much more perimeter game with trapping galore.
The ice change I would like to see isn't changing the size of the ice, but moving the blue lines out a few feet.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
I don't think that would happen to the degree you do, as I also think it would help some of the teams who play a more skilled game; like Tampa and Chicago, maybe us, Calgary, Florida, Buffalo and Edmonton; thrive and turn the tide against negative strategies and anti-hockey. You can try to trap against teams who are as strong in possession as the hawks and lightening, but with the extra space and time they'd tear most teams up. It could do a lot to promote more positive hockey strategies as teams realize that with the extra ice they need to be more competent with the puck and learn to play their way out of pressure instead of just dumping and chasing against teams that won't give them puck back until their goalie is picking it out of the net.
Teams follow what the teams who are having success are doing, and right now the two most talented teams both have the skill, depth and intelligent coaching to take advantage of the big ice. And that could be huge for the direction this game is headed.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Mironov can really crank the puck from the point, but if he needs that long to get it off in the NHL he'll never put a puck on net.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
Thanks for the Mironov comments. I couldn't watch today but I'll be watching plenty.
Big ice in the NHL would be like big ice in the Olympics, it was pretty boring. But what would be kinda cool is if some teams used it and some didn't. In junior I think there are little variations in some rinks, wouldn't mind that in the NHL.
Big ice in the NHL would be like big ice in the Olympics, it was pretty boring. But what would be kinda cool is if some teams used it and some didn't. In junior I think there are little variations in some rinks, wouldn't mind that in the NHL.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
No worries. Some drama in my personal life and a brewing feud with our company's scanner led me to take the afternoon off after lunch. So I was gunna be watching that Dynamo game until soccer started anyway.
...plus it helps me remember my own thoughts if I write them down somewhere
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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Sometimes I feel some of the prospect rankings are more about what the players are than what they can be and players with AHL star caliber skills get overrated, even if their NHL prospects are low because of one or two major hurdles (usually size/skating).
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
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Outside of a few John Malkin moves he didn't really show much in the AHL or NHL. He hit a bit, but I'm not sure he's going to make it in North America as a physical type of player.
He did get a bad injury and it was his first year in North America, so hopefully he's got a better year in him this year.
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