Confirmed with Link: 2013 Rookie camp roster (September 5-9)

[Redux91]

I don't consider them rookies, but a team might insert them in rookie camp to help raise the calibre of play and intensity.

He was not only on the cusp but played half the year NHL at 20 and didn't look out of place. Smart teams are patient with young players and don't "brush them aside" quickly. Somne players take a bit longer to come but end up very good players(Markov Plekanec Desharnais Pacioretty Emelin).

hey Leblanc's my BOY

but its pretty close if not already "make or break" for him right now with the habs, ive got nothing against him at ALL and hope he makes it, but its pretty naive to think if he does'nt make the team this year, he just might never.

 

[Monctonscout]

Hopefully it's a wakeup call to Vail. I wasn't too impressed with him last year and thought he didn't look good at the USA summer camp. But being the only draft pick from last year not to get invited to the main camp has to be an eye opener for him.

As for the current AHLers, they usually always get an auto invite since they have nowhere else to go since the Dogs don't start their camp until the the last week of Sept.



A lot will depend on how he does this year, since he will have to clear waviers to play in the AHL next season. So if he struggles again, next camp they will need to make a choice on him or risk losing him to waivers.

It's definitely a big season for him, but the camp is not a "last chance" for him to make the team, next year probably moreso. I think the plan is for him to bounce back and be part of the 3rd line next year with guys like Galachenyuk Eller and Gallagher moving into bigger roles/more responsibilities.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

It's definitely a big season for him, but the camp is not a "last chance" for him to make the team, next year probably moreso. I think the plan is for him to bounce back and be part of the 3rd line next year with guys like Galachenyuk Eller and Gallagher moving into bigger roles/more responsibilities.

Well, he's RFA at the end of the year, so I submit that he has until then (not starting then) to prove the value of re-signing him. I agree that camp is not the "last chance", but if he doesn't make the big club out of camp he only has a matter of months to prove to the club that he should be part of their longer term plans.

 

[Tim Wallach]

It's definitely a big season for him, but the camp is not a "last chance" for him to make the team, next year probably moreso. I think the plan is for him to bounce back and be part of the 3rd line next year with guys like Galachenyuk Eller and Gallagher moving into bigger roles/more responsibilities.

Vail started out so strongly last year and it's almost like his body quit on him due to fatigue. He went from probably a top-15 guy in the OHL before Christmas to invisible in the second half. Something caught up to him.

I keep in mind that he's only 19 though. He has time. But it's concerning. It looked an awful lot like what happened to Leblanc. Someone flipped a switch. Let's hope it goes both ways.

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

Vail started out so strongly last year and it's almost like his body quit on him due to fatigue. He went from probably a top-15 guy in the OHL before Christmas to invisible in the second half. Something caught up to him.

I keep in mind that he's only 19 though. He has time. But it's concerning. It looked an awful lot like what happened to Leblanc. Someone flipped a switch. Let's hope it goes both ways.

It could be the fact that he was stuck playing as a defenceman for several games in the second half of the season... that'll do a number on one's production

 

[25get]

You considered Drewiske, White and Weber as rookies last year..?



Nothing is being blown out of proportion, especially at an age like 22, you BETTER be on the cusp of making the team you were drafted by or there is clearly something wrong (with the player OR organization),
Its more like you dont seem to understand just how quickly someone can be brushed aside/let go/ released in this business.

Bickell had played 3 NHL games at 22, 7 at 23 and only 23 at 24 years old.
Plekanec had played 2 NHL games at 22 years old.
Runblad and Kreider were picked just before and after him. Both have less points and less games than Leblanc.

I think we can wait another year.
I would certainly hate to see Leblanc have success with another team because we have given up too fast.

 

[Redux91]

Bickell had played 3 NHL games at 22, 7 at 23 and only 23 at 24 years old.
Plekanec had played 2 NHL games at 22 years old.
Runblad and Kreider were picked just before and after him. Both have less points and less games than Leblanc.

I think we can wait another year.
I would certainly hate to see Leblanc have success with another team because we have given up too fast.

And like i said. at an age LIKE 22, and being on the CUSP of making the team.
Its not game over for him but its not like hes 19 with great development years ahead of him, time IS running out.

 

[Whitesnake]

There were worst players than Leblanc last year who will be at the main camp...

Not my point. The guy went directly to the main camp contrary to EVERYBODY who is NOW at the main camp. Leblanc would have for sure be invited to the main camp if he would have gone to the rookie camp as he would have done better than most....so that's not the point.

I'm not sure the exact number of games to no longer being a rookie, I think it's 20. I m sure there is something in the CBA about rookie camps because guys like Drewiske Weber(last year) White etc would be invited.

Well then, you are not too sure hence the point, that I wasn't even making but that was pointed out by others, wasn't crap. I checked in the CBA and didn't find anything so if anybody knows....that would be neat.

 

[Mike Mike Caron]

Not my point. The guy went directly to the main camp contrary to EVERYBODY who is NOW at the main camp. Leblanc would have for sure be invited to the main camp if he would have gone to the rookie camp as he would have done better than most....so that's not the point.



Well then, you are not too sure hence the point, that I wasn't even making but that was pointed out by others, wasn't crap. I checked in the CBA and didn't find anything so if anybody knows....that would be neat.

Well Bergevin explained why Leblanc wasn't at the camp and it makes perfect sense.

 

[Tim Wallach]

It could be the fact that he was stuck playing as a defenceman for several games in the second half of the season... that'll do a number on one's production

It didn't help. But it wasn't just his production. I saw him live about 5 times in the second half and he played forward every one of those games. He just looked lost. He wasn't engaging much at all or battling. He looked like he was a step behind the game at every turn. He was struggling to stay involved.

 

[Redux91]

Not my point. The guy went directly to the main camp contrary to EVERYBODY who is NOW at the main camp. Leblanc would have for sure be invited to the main camp if he would have gone to the rookie camp as he would have done better than most....so that's not the point.



Well then, you are not too sure hence the point, that I wasn't even making but that was pointed out by others, wasn't crap. I checked in the CBA and didn't find anything so if anybody knows....that would be neat.

Here you go big guy

"Rookie Qualifications
To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377

 

[Whitesnake]

Here you go big guy

"Rookie Qualifications
To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in more than 25 NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377

Well Sven Baertschi played in the rookie tournament and he played a total of 25 games in the NHL, so he really would have been ineligible with 26 games? Or his the "rookie qualifications" not entirely for the "rookie" camp...anywhere it mentions that a guy that does not meet the rookie qualifications CANNOT be in a rookie camp? So in the end....it's not about confidence, it's not about boost, not about he has nothiong to learn there...it's about CANNOT play in a rookie camp based on the NHL experience. Fine. Says it all. Thanks.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Let's hope Brady Vail doesn't have the low self-esteem that Leblanc has. If the only reason why Leblanc was invited directly in the main camp so that his little confidence wouldn't be shattered...how would you feel to be the only eligible draftee that is not invited to the main camp? He CLEARLY didn't deserve it....but Bozon didn't show anything. MacAulay, not enough. And Quailer being there is just the greatest joke on earth, probably just to hurt Vail a little more, would say a conspiracy theorist...Makes no sense whatsoever. You want to make people accountable for showing up....fine with me. Great. But apply it to everybody. Geez, I would have even considered not inviting Holland based on yesterday's game.....

I guess that's a test for your attitude Brady or....you have just been traded or will be traded in the upcoming weeks.

I'm sure it wasn't the scrimmage alone. Vail might not have done well on the health tests. Lot of whispers about lack of conditioning with him. I'm sure they're not picking on Vail for no good reason.

 

[montreal]

It didn't help. But it wasn't just his production. I saw him live about 5 times in the second half and he played forward every one of those games. He just looked lost. He wasn't engaging much at all or battling. He looked like he was a step behind the game at every turn. He was struggling to stay involved.

that's what i saw from him, he looked even worse at the summer camp for USA which was surprising to see.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm sure it wasn't the scrimmage alone. Vail might not have done well on the health tests. Lot of whispers about lack of conditioning with him. I'm sure they're not picking on Vail for no good reason.

Is there ever a good reason to start picking on a player? I mean issues or not we still want him to succeed right. If his conditioning is a problem, having him workout with professional who do take their conditioning very seriously is more likely to make an impression than sending him home before camp. So would working with our strength and conditioning coach so that they can come up with a better routine.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Is there ever a good reason to start picking on a player? I mean issues or not we still want him to succeed right. If his conditioning is a problem, having him workout with professional who do take their conditioning very seriously is more likely to make an impression than sending him home before camp. So would working with our strength and conditioning coach so that they can come up with a better routine.

wow you're quite the spin doctor. obviously I didn't mean they are picking on him. If there was a good reason he's not at the camp then they're inherently not 'picking' on him.

When you pick on someone it's always for no good reason, it's understood in the definition of picking on someone.

Making the training camp is a privilege and a reward. If they feel he didn't earn it then he didn't. I'm sure they'll be giving him an extensive workout regime that they INSIST he works on. Come on, man.

 

[Sorinth]

wow you're quite the spin doctor. obviously I didn't mean they are picking on him. If there was a good reason he's not at the camp then they're inherently not 'picking' on him.

When you pick on someone it's always for no good reason, it's understood in the definition of picking on someone.

Making the training camp is a privilege and a reward. If they feel he didn't earn it then he didn't. I'm sure they'll be giving him an extensive workout regime that they INSIST he works on. Come on, man.

Training camp being a reward is a stupid way of doing things. Every player mentions how much they learn at camp and how the team gave them a list of things to work on during the season. The start of camp it's a great learning experience. If you want to reward a player by keeping him up longer and giving them a preseason game that's different. And even your right it's hard to imagine Vail is the only player that didn't earn it.

 

[durojean]

Training camp being a reward is a stupid way of doing things. Every player mentions how much they learn at camp and how the team gave them a list of things to work on during the season. The start of camp it's a great learning experience. If you want to reward a player by keeping him up longer and giving them a preseason game that's different. And even your right it's hard to imagine Vail is the only player that didn't earn it.

That's basically why they do have a rookie camp. It's to punish them who don't deserve to be in tge training camp while giving them the learning exerience they could grt from the main camp.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

that's what i saw from him, he looked even worse at the summer camp for USA which was surprising to see.

I really don't like prospects like Vail. He doesn't have any dominant physical traits and doesn't play with much of an edge at all. This type of prospect almost never makes it to the NHL. He looks like a decent player at the CHL level with a decent all around skill set but that just won't cut it at the next level without a strong compete level and a willingness to get dirty.

Players like this provide a lot of false hope for fans as they always try to project them as future 3rd liners in the NHL. The fact is that most NHL 3rd liners were pretty good scorers in junior/college and almost all of them have an edge to their game.

Vail is a vanilla prospect who looks more like a career minor leaguer. The pick was understandable as his physical tools were projectable but he hasn't improved them and remains way too passive on the ice. It will take a personal revelation on his part to completely change the way he approaches the game to give him any shot at making it to the NHL.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I really don't like prospects like Vail. He doesn't have any dominant physical traits and doesn't play with much of an edge at all. This type of prospect almost never makes it to the NHL. He looks like a decent player at the CHL level with a decent all around skill set but that just won't cut it at the next level without a strong compete level and a willingness to get dirty.

Players like this provide a lot of false hope for fans as they always try to project them as future 3rd liners in the NHL. The fact is that most NHL 3rd liners were pretty good scorers in junior/college and almost all of them have an edge to their game.

Vail is a vanilla prospect who looks more like a career minor leaguer. The pick was understandable as his physical tools were projectable but he hasn't improved them and remains way too passive on the ice. It will take a personal revelation on his part to completely change the way he approaches the game to give him any shot at making it to the NHL.

We're going to get crucified, but I agree with you when it comes to Vail. I get static for lumping Thrower into that same general category (as if it's realistic to keep room for all of Nygren, Beaulieu, Subban, and/or whoever else better than Thrower the team finds to hold down the right side of the D over time), but what are ya gonna do? Holland is another one, imo.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Well... If Habs have Tinordi-Murray-Emelin-Gorges in the top six, the forwards will cry. They need to receive crisp passes on the go to be effective on counter-attack, while those 4 d-men will more often than not put the puck on the boards without creativity. I think you're overestimated them. A team also need good puck moving d-men. Not just one.

I was maybe thinking closer to the playoffs...

We need to add one more dman (top 3) who can help us go far in the playoffs. We can't expect PK Subban to carry the D-Corps all by himself. So...I'll just wait and see what Bergevin will do before the trade deadline, or maybe he feels our top 7 dcore is good enough to go far in the playoffs.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

We're going to get crucified, but I agree with you when it comes to Vail. I get static for lumping Thrower into that same general category (as if it's realistic to keep room for all of Nygren, Beaulieu, Subban, and/or whoever else better than Thrower the team finds to hold down the right side of the D over time), but what are ya gonna do? Holland is another one, imo.

I definitely agree on Holland as well but Thrower has enough jam to his game that he can still pan out if he gets his head screwed on straight. I do like the idea of moving him to the wing but overall I am not crazy about his prospects at this point in time.

 

[Whitesnake]

I really don't like prospects like Vail. He doesn't have any dominant physical traits and doesn't play with much of an edge at all. This type of prospect almost never makes it to the NHL. He looks like a decent player at the CHL level with a decent all around skill set but that just won't cut it at the next level without a strong compete level and a willingness to get dirty.

Players like this provide a lot of false hope for fans as they always try to project them as future 3rd liners in the NHL. The fact is that most NHL 3rd liners were pretty good scorers in junior/college and almost all of them have an edge to their game.

Vail is a vanilla prospect who looks more like a career minor leaguer. The pick was understandable as his physical tools were projectable but he hasn't improved them and remains way too passive on the ice. It will take a personal revelation on his part to completely change the way he approaches the game to give him any shot at making it to the NHL.

Pick was really understandable as you always work with prospects and go with their development and ceiling. Vail had enough tangibles to project him as a NHL'er. Still has. But everything is about development. Same goes with Thrower. Thrower looked better this week that I've seen him lately so that's good news but it need to translate into a very good season this year as a 20 yo. If not, he's gone.

But it's easy to pick on a guy who's probably at the lowest end of his career. Cut by USA, only draftee cut by his NHL team....can only go up after that.

Totally true that most 3rd liners were big time scorers with their respective team. Yet, it's not all black and white and you do have late bloomers. Vail could be it. Not the time to give up on him unless.....there's a minor prospect deal you can do that would answer a need. Vail still has some "value" as nobody should give up on a kid like that with nice size and nice overall awareness. Yet, not sure WE should give up on him just yet. But true, that he makes it harder for us to be excited by him. This is why it's fun to say immediately after a draft who wins and who doesn't, 2012 looked incredible just after we finished that day, everybody was so excited, we had a whole lot of names in there.....but it's entirely possible than when all is said and done, that the mid picks in Thrower, Bozon and Vail do not fulfill their expectations. Hudon...well I'm still not convinced but not based on talent...based on injuries. And Nystrom...we'll see. That draft could change dramatically....and then....they still could all do it and be one of the draft since a long time. Nothing is done. Far from it.

 

[LePoche69]

I really don't like prospects like Vail. He doesn't have any dominant physical traits and doesn't play with much of an edge at all. This type of prospect almost never makes it to the NHL. He looks like a decent player at the CHL level with a decent all around skill set but that just won't cut it at the next level without a strong compete level and a willingness to get dirty.

Players like this provide a lot of false hope for fans as they always try to project them as future 3rd liners in the NHL. The fact is that most NHL 3rd liners were pretty good scorers in junior/college and almost all of them have an edge to their game.

Vail is a vanilla prospect who looks more like a career minor leaguer. The pick was understandable as his physical tools were projectable but he hasn't improved them and remains way too passive on the ice. It will take a personal revelation on his part to completely change the way he approaches the game to give him any shot at making it to the NHL.

So true, especially the bolded part.

People tend to overestimated the list of 20-25 better prospects of a team. The truth is, no more than 4 or 5 of them, if lucky, will have a certain impact on a NHL team, and the other 4-10 will be spare parts or highly replaceable players. The rest will be career AHLer, European leagues players, or simply busts. And my numbers here are generous. In average around the NHL, the real numbers should be more like 1-3 "impact" players + 2-5 "spare parts".

In fact, it's almost mathematical. With the NHL vets + other rookies drafted the years after, there is simply no room for all these players/prospects. People reed too much at what is happening to a player like Vail who was a late draft pick. Sending him back to junior is just routine.

 

[Monctonscout]

Vail started out so strongly last year and it's almost like his body quit on him due to fatigue. He went from probably a top-15 guy in the OHL before Christmas to invisible in the second half. Something caught up to him.

I keep in mind that he's only 19 though. He has time. But it's concerning. It looked an awful lot like what happened to Leblanc. Someone flipped a switch. Let's hope it goes both ways.

I was referring to LeBlanc.

But yes, Vail went from hot to cold pretty quickly...I'm sure it didn't help that he played defense for a period of time and has so so linemates after Kohklachev arrived.