Speculation: 2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: Streit's rights to PHI for 2014 4th Rounder

[Trxjw]

um. have you watched zadarov skate ?

please stop saying that mcilrath and zadarov are comparable. they are not. i think mac projects as a 3rd pair guy who fights. zadarov has REAL top shutdown potential. dylan really doesnt.

i only mention zadarov as a guy whos probably available at 11 and who i think is a better overall prospect than mac. thats all.

and is there a player who would fit the " possible unrealized potential" label more than dylan mcilrath ?? i think not.

burmistrov and zadarov for del bozo and mcilrath ?? sign me up !!

No, I haven't seen him skate. I read a scouting report though!

You can think whatever you want, but so far from Zadorov I see a big kid who grew into his body a lot sooner than other kids of that age and is imposing his will on smaller players. I see 2nd pairing shutdown potential in Zadorov. The same potential I see in McIlrath. I think Zadorov has better positioning and backwards mobility than McIlrath at the same age, but I think McIlrath's ability to transition the puck was better. People are in love with Zadorov's size. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him slip into the 18-20 range.

 

[Bluenote13]

I'll be shocked if Zad makes it past 12. Someone will want him, same way they did with MCI. These players are hard to come by.

I don't think some here are rating Burmistrov/Del Z/Mcilrath value properly in these trade scenarios. Plus some of you are adding high first rounders for only Del Z. Seems off, both the pro and anti MDZ sides.

I'd say the Jets need to add players upfront, plenty of depth on defense even if it is on the right side. If they trade Burmistrov I'm almost sure they would ask for a forward in the deal, one not too far off from Burmi's age.

 

[Kershaw]

I don't evaluate players based on what other players are doing. He's absolutely a bit of a headcase, and that's one of the reasons I'd be interested in him. I think this team needs more of those players who toe the line and sometimes step over it.

I don't care about his draft position (Yet how many times have you advocated us picking up former 1st round picks?). Steve Bernier was a top pick from 2003 but never made it as a top-six player. However, he's been very effective as a bottom-six player for the Devils. With Beach, I'd be looking for a 3rd line guy who can possibly step up if he finds that next step in his development.

Problem with Beach is that he's a coke machine and a bad hockey player. I'd much rather go after Kyle Clifford if it is a necessity to get a goon type in the top 6, (which I don't think is necessary at all, but that's for another story).

 

[Mikos87]

What I find baffling is the attraction people have towards Burmistov. He played on ATL/WPG, never cracked the top two lines as a center, nor a winger, never posted .5 PPG, never proved to be a part of a top PP or PK, couldn't stay on the top two lines as a winger.

But he's got sick hands. Sounds like a younger Wolski to me, except more unproven, and a sure fire KHL risk, and a 21 yearold who has publicly demanded a trade.

You trade assets for proven scorers or guys that fill needs, so someone tell me why the fan base is so ardent on his acquisition.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

Problem with Beach is that he's a coke machine and a bad hockey player.

Kershaw strikes again.

 

[NYR Viper]

Problem with Beach is that he's a coke machine and a bad hockey player. I'd much rather go after Kyle Clifford if it is a necessity to get a goon type in the top 6, (which I don't think is necessary at all, but that's for another story).

Clifford would be phenomenal from the Kings. Doubt he is moved.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

What I find baffling is the attraction people have towards Burmistov. He played on ATL/WPG, never cracked the top two lines as a center, nor a winger, never posted .5 PPG, never proved to be a part of a top PP or PK, couldn't stay on the top two lines as a winger.

But he's got sick hands. Sounds like a younger Wolski to me, except more unproven, and a sure fire KHL risk, and a 21 yearold who has publicly demanded a trade.

You trade assets for proven scorers or guys that fill needs, so someone tell me why the fan base is so ardent on his acquisition.

Better defensively than Wolski. Better vision. Works harder.

There are a few of us that would love to add Burmistrov. Just, not at the expense of Del Zotto.

 

[Kershaw]

Kershaw strikes again.

I have, yes.

He's a bust. He'll never see time here, IMO.

I don't know, still like him as an enforcer.

He has no future with the Hawks it seems.....

drop him immediately.. pick up danault / teuvu if you want a hawk

If he has a future, it won't be in Chicago.

drop him and I refuse to use the b word

he had promise in the WHL. I live about 5 minutes from everett where he played so i watched alot of him and was super pumped for him to get draafted by the blackhawks. He was quite a difference maker in the WHL as he could score and play physical very well.

unfortunately as mentioned above i dont think he doesnt have any place on this team. I dont think he will end up ever amounting to what the blackhawks had in mind with him. I believe he is bust and we should try and trade him for a pick if possible in this years draft

Whats he going to enforce? He's an awful fighter when he's not beating up 16 year olds or skill players.

A combination of lacking consistency and opportunity.

The only year he was consistently good in the pros was the year he got injured, so he missed his best opportunity. He was supposed to prove that consistency again, and he's failed to do so.

Even if he has a future in the NHL as a banger, it's not going to be with the Hawks.

As mentioned before, he still has the attitude issue, it never went away, kinda like Sean Avery.

Beach will maybe be signed to an AHL deal somewhere but I seriously doubt that he will be signed by any NHL team this off-season. This isn't about reputation, its about he is 23 behaving like a spoiled 14 year old and not many teams want players with attitude issues.

He is a complete bust who likely wont be re-signed by Hawks IMO

He is a below average bottom 6 AHL'er ,, People talking about him being on Hawks roster as a 4th liner are really reaching

Guy's only chance is if Tallon picks him up and gives him an NHL career out of nothing (Ala Jack Skille)

We all know Jack would not be in NHL if he wasn't playing for Dale

Too many gms with "toughness" fetishes to just dump him on the street. He may have value to swap prospects down the road, maybe a gamble on a good skater or a "project" type prospect. As bad as he is, he still looks like he has value in a number of systems. Keep him for another year, I don't think he'll be clogging up the contract limit.

Kyle Bust?

He is not a good hockey player. Attitude issues, injury plague and inconsistent play. Which is why you've seen guys like Ben Smith, Jimmy Hayes, Brandon Pirri, Jeremy Morin, Andrew Shaw and Markus Kruger make the jump before Beach, despite Beach's draft pedigree. He also sucks at fighting.

 

[Bluenote13]

Clifford would be phenomenal from the Kings. Doubt he is moved.

Yeah, he'd be a nice addition, of course he has Marc Staal's birthday of Jan 13th and he wears #13 so me liking him is no shocker

Of course the Kings are just looking to give away a 22yr old guy that goes through walls for them

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

If the Rangers decide this week they aren't resigning Clowe they should trade his rights. Getting something for him is better then nothing.

 

[Trxjw]

Oh please. I could dig up just as many posts about dozens of other players from "informed" posters. Hell, I could dig up that many posts from the geniuses around here when talking about Kreider or McIlrath.

Reclamation project to see if we can end up with a semi-skilled bottom-six forward for next to nothing. Lunacy! Pure lunacy!

 

[bernmeister]

...
I agree that the Bruins aren't teeming with size, but having Horton and Lucic is a luxury the Rangers do not have. ... .

And don't forget Dougie Hamilton, a real difference maker to their back line.
Can't wait for McIlrath...

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

I have, yes.



























He is not a good hockey player. Attitude issues, injury plague and inconsistent play. Which is why you've seen guys like Ben Smith, Jimmy Hayes, Brandon Pirri, Jeremy Morin, Andrew Shaw and Markus Kruger make the jump before Beach, despite Beach's draft pedigree. He also sucks at fighting.

He's 23. Would you like to know what my attitude and work-ethic was at that age?

He would cost very little as far as assets go. He has tremendous upside. It's a low risk option.

Would you like me to dig up some of your very own quotes since your debut on this board, Kershaw. . . . . . . ?

 

[Thirty One]

He's 23. Would you like to know what my attitude and work-ethic was at that age?

And I have no interest in acquiring you.

 

[GAGLine]

He's 23. Would you like to know what my attitude and work-ethic was at that age?

Not even remotely a valid comparison. Beach is a professional athlete. He's played hockey his whole life for the opportunity to play in the NHL. If he isn't motivated now, he never will be.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

And I have no interest in acquiring you.

How can you acquire something you already have?

 

[Kwayry]

He is a big smart kid. I think he was a very good pick.

Eliteprospects description of him is pretty good:


I think the key here is his authority and smarts. When he played in rookie camp for us, and when he has played junior hockey in Sweden, he justs steps out on the ice and scores a bunch of easy goals without in any way dominate with end-to-end rushes or something like that. 27 pts in 22 games in the top junior league in Sweden is impressive, and if I remember correctly he scored a bunch of goals during scrimmages last summer at rookie camp.

He is still very youngish so to speak on the ice though, so I don't think 2 years in anyway is a long time frame to give him. Some kids are fully developed and slimmed down when they are 18. Some kids have no mucle when they are 18. Andersson is at 212 lbs, but that is definitely not all muscle, but more like "babyfat" in lack of a better word. That is what is holding him back. The explosiveness is just not there yet. I think he is more of a kid who will arrive when he is 24-25 y/o, not 21-22 y/o. I just think it has more to do with how he physically has developed and how he is built. Somehow, we gotta lock him up though so that we don't loose his rights. Give him two years in the SEL, then sign him and lend him to the SEL for another year. That's still only 3 years and a little on the short side. The SEL is a good league, he will develop well in that league.

Talented. Good size. Smart kid. Raw. Still very raw.

Thanks for the feedback.
I agree 2 or 3 years is not bad if he is developed properly.

 

[Kwayry]

Taking a flyer on Beach is no brainer IMO. At worst he will be a good get for Hartford and if he is a late bloomer, you hit a homerun.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Maybe we can trade Clowe's rights

 

[GAGLine]

Taking a flyer on Beach is no brainer IMO. At worst he will be a good get for Hartford and if he is a late bloomer, you hit a homerun.

It's a no-brainer depending on the cost, though at this point, I doubt he would cost much.

 

[bernmeister]

...

We can't trade Girardi. We're not Glen Sather.

So, ya wanna start with that

And even if we could, Stralman isn't a 1st pairing dmen. Regardless of how twisted a world you live in.

Irrelevant. We must improve overall assets, both quantity and quality.
It this was a fine tuned machine ready to rock n roll, and moving someone screwed up the balance, I could see your point. We are NO WHERE near there.

We don't need a total blowup in the sense that our best guys aren't worth keeping.
But we need a complete restart and we may have to move our best guys to either facilitate or offset other moves needed to improve.

We need to move value for younger value with less cap, preferably ELCs.
That is the best overall plan.

Bern every few weeks your opinion about what this team needs just flops all over the place. One minute you want Hall. Malkin. Stamkos.

Any of those guys would have looked good in Rangers jersey.

Originally I wanted Malkin. NY was so bad, only hope to win was if Pens got enough overpayment and let him go, the might be able to single handedly dominate playoffs for us. As we got better we could offer less to provide such overpayment. But in any event, Pens chose to go the route they did and stick with the uber-elite pivots. Soon the day of reckoning will come with the cap, but that is a story for another day.

I never had extended postings for Stamkos. There was a brief foray where everybody went nuts 'cause he didn't sign right away leading to thought he'd be offer sheeted or alternate deal.

Hall, I stand by what I said.

At least I vigorously make a creative effort to improve this team.
You would rather we lose with the same old same old than think outside the box.

Hey BB. Dare to dream. Just a little.

Join the club. So do we. Difference is we're not going to gut the team in half to make that happen.

Gutting the club is irrelevant.
Relevant is bottom line overall improvement.

You want to fill one hole and open up 7 more.

Kinda otherway around, more like patching up smaller multiple holes, leaving one big one.

How can anyone take your opinion seriously when you post foolish things like, Kreider is more valuable than Stepan.

I do not recant.
Kreider has looked good both times the shackles were taken off.
He will be fine now going forward.
He is WAY more gifted than Stepan, except atm, as to hockey IQ + experience.

In 3-5 years Stepan will prove to be more valuable.
Mark that here.

Bern would trade Girardi, Staal, MDZ, and roll with:

McDonagh-Stralman
Moore-Eminger
Skjei-McIlrath

Acceptable IF the counterplay, the return was worth it and more.
This is a point you conveniently forget to bring up.

No sacred cows. No sacred cows. Except Chris Kreider.

No sacred cows including Kreider.
I am on record as saying it would be foolish to trade CK before we know the full measure of his worth, not that we shouldn't trade him.

I see your and raise you a and a

 

[Kwayry]

It's a no-brainer depending on the cost, though at this point, I doubt he would cost much.

Agreed.

 

[Boom Boom Geoffrion*]

He's played hockey his whole life for the opportunity to play in the NHL. If he isn't motivated now, he never will be.

Assuming he has motivation issues. We don't know what's going on in his head. A different environment could remedy a lot of problems.

We've seen plenty of young players hit their stride later in their careers. Injuries, attitude, whatever.

I don't think he'll ever hit his potential, but that doesn't mean he can't be a valuable addition for us at some point in his career.

I'm not suggesting we should be oblivious to some of the hiccups in his development. He has been a huge disappointment. But that doesn't mean he can't become a solid player one day.

I'm all for low-risk possibilities. He would be one.

 

[Green Blob*]

Hopefully Philly signs him to a horrible contract.

 

[bernmeister]

What I find baffling is the attraction people have towards Burmistov. He played on ATL/WPG, never cracked the top two lines as a center, nor a winger, never posted .5 PPG, never proved to be a part of a top PP or PK, couldn't stay on the top two lines as a winger.

But he's got sick hands. Sounds like a younger Wolski to me, except more unproven, and a sure fire KHL risk, and a 21 yearold who has publicly demanded a trade.

You trade assets for proven scorers or guys that fill needs, so someone tell me why the fan base is so ardent on his acquisition.

He's worth paying good assets for, you can't expect him cheap; but he's not worth premium assets given the above. One good season out of him and re-signing for a decent #, then his value goes up.

Maybe something really minimal and a conditional add on. ..