Post-Game Talk: 2013 NHL Entry Draft - The BoHo Era Begins

[AmazingNuck]

So the worst thing about Shinkaruk is that he comes off as cocky and rubs some people the wrong way. I can live with that, much better than having a really bad shot, skating issues, or other physical deficiencies.

I like the cockiness. Boston, Los Angeles, and Chicago have proven there's no room for class in the finals.

Besides, the team could use some more cockiness. Better to have a player who thinks he can score than relying only on the Sedins.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Klimchuk is a 200ft player, Shinkaruk is not.

He was the BPA, which is why this is difficult to pursue. It was more about getting a Horvat type later on, in which case the traits of say Erne would be favoured over the more 1way talent of Shinkaruk.

Basically, draft like players instead of complimentary players. If they valued those traits so highly in Horvat to take him 9th overall, why didn't they do it again with a player like Klimchuk or Erne? I guess they gave thought to the Sedins' decline and say why not, take the scorer.

You can teach defense. Much harder to teach offense. Bo Horvat was the safe pick and Shinkaruk is the gamble. If Shinkaruk pans out like I expect him to we'll be in awesome shape on forward in the future. If not, we still have Bo who is going to be a really good NHLer.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm going to say that it is not nearly that black and white.

I've watched plenty of Regina to see Klimchuk leave the zone early is search of offense. I think when your drawing Parise comps, you're probably not just a one trick pony.

I think Hunter being better offensively automatically makes some assume, he's worse defensively.

I've watched both, haven't seen Klimchuk to the extent you have if you've watched plenty, but I think Klimchuk is far more effective and driven defensively. It's a contrast to me. There are many reports that attest to this as well. Meanwhile, there are reports citing HS's 1way nature.

Anyways, put aside Klimchuk for the moment. Replace with Erne. The methodology to take like players should still hold. They valued those traits in Horvat, so they should have valued them in Erne.

The position might have tipped the scales IMO. HS has played at C, so perhaps they were viewing him long-term as a C. Since they were seeking young Cs, it makes sense in that light.

 

[Bleach Clean]

You can teach defense. Much harder to teach offense. Bo Horvat was the safe pick and Shinkaruk is the gamble. If Shinkaruk pans out like I expect him to we'll be in awesome shape on forward in the future. If not, we still have Bo who is going to be a really good NHLer.

Bo also brings the offense. My point is why introduce the gamble when they had 20th ranked Erne sitting there? Far less of a gamble, and still had top6 upside.

 

[Verviticus]

You can teach defense. Much harder to teach offense.

is this quantifiable, or proveable in any way? are there more players who were primarily offensive talents that became passable defensive talents rather than players who made the league as a grinder and then started scoring?

players like burrows exist but there's such a ridiculous TALENT VS EFFORT narrative that people don't understand that both defence and offence are skills

 

[Aela*]

Another O pick. Giliis has sacked his Q scouts, excellent.

Not a bad pick for a 7th. Not a smurfy offensive forward like I wanted but also not a slug footed 6'4"+D behemoth Dman with no hands and no IQ.

Actually he can play forward pretty well and might have a future there. I could see when he played that he was really unsure wtf to do as a forward, but made some intelligent plays and worked hard. He needs good coaching and more ice time if he's going to succeed, but I think he will.

You guys also hit a home run with the Horvat pick. 5 years from now won't be surprised if he's a 2C whose the best PK'er in the league.

 

[canucksfan100]

Bo also brings the offense. My point is why introduce the gamble when they had 20th ranked Erne sitting there? Far less of a gamble, and still had top6 upside.

Erne is a 2nd/3rd line tweener at best imo. Shinkaruk is top 6 forward material if all goes well... I rather take the risk on Shinkaruk than getting another tweener which we can always pick up through FA or later rounds.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Erne is a 2nd/3rd line tweener at best imo. Shinkaruk is top 6 forward material if all goes well... I rather take the risk on Shinkaruk than getting another tweener which we can always pick up through FA or later rounds.

Not that I disagree, but Erne is that tweener with size. That makes a difference in how the game is being called. I would rather not take the risk, and watch a player does not get cancelled out, continually, in the pros. Time will tell though.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Bo also brings the offense. My point is why introduce the gamble when they had 20th ranked Erne sitting there? Far less of a gamble, and still had top6 upside.

They got **** for the Mallet pick and didn't want to go back to the Q?

Shinkaruk was ranked really high the whole year. He went to the WJC camp and was one of the last cuts, IIRC. He's a player. He's going to be really good. And when I say gamble with Shinkaruk I really mean 'gamble'. And you go for the gamble when you can afford to. That's why Pittsburgh picked Esposito at #20 in '07 and why Chicago picked Beach at #11 in '08. Of course, these are horrible comparisons to the player we got and what are situation is, but it is why teams go with a gamble when they can afford to make a mistake. If they hit a home run, then it's a steal. If they strike-out, no one will likely remember if they win the ultimate goal. That's why you introduce the gamble then. Horvat is a blue-chipper, and why Shinkaruk dropped so far is beyond me.

I remember listening to the radio a couple years back and some Calgary/WHL commentators wouldn't stop talking about Shinkaruk. How good he was going to be that year. The way they talked about him, I thought "Wow, this is a guy I think the Canucks need." never have I thought the Canucks would have a snowball's chance in hell at drafting the guy until about 2 hours into the draft yesterday. I'm absolutely ecstatic with this pick, no doubt in my mind. If he turns into the player those Calgary/WHL commentators were talking about, you'll see why.

 

[just22]

I loved the Horvat pick and what he may become, but I'm actually more excited about Shinkaruk. There might be a small chance, but if he meets his potential, watch out.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

is this quantifiable, or proveable in any way? are there more players who were primarily offensive talents that became passable defensive talents rather than players who made the league as a grinder and then started scoring?

players like burrows exist but there's such a ridiculous TALENT VS EFFORT narrative that people don't understand that both defence and offence are skills

Kovalchuk and Yzerman are a good place to start. I think this thinking is derived from the idea that coaches mostly preach and teach players defense and leave offense to the players to figure out. Obviously, that might go the way of the dinosaur as was alluded to in many coaching threads, Bylsma is one of few coaches who employ numerous set plays in the offensive end.

I'm not demeaning the two-way player in any way, but if you have a game breaker or a two-way player there you are probably going to take the game breaker.

So to answer your question, no it's not quantifiable or measurable in any tangible way and yes, there are many examples of defensively responsible players growing in to offensive talents and vice versa, but I would think it's much easier for a coach to teach defensive positioning, boardplay, responsibility in all 3 zones than say putting a puck into a mail-slot with a defender on your back would it not be?

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Does anybody else find it a tad weird that we drafted a guy named BO, and next we drafted a guy named HUNTER?

Something tells me that David Booth had a hand in this.

Yeah,Gillis should have got Booth to announce the Shinkaruk pick like he had Luongo do when we picked Schroeder.Talk about deja-vu...

 

[keslerburrows]

@D_Booth7: If I ever blessed enough to have a son of my own his name will be Bo Hunter Booth. Decided this last year FYI

 

[vanuck]

@D_Booth7: If I ever blessed enough to have a son of my own his name will be Bo Hunter Booth. Decided this last year FYI

Yeah, every Hunter needs his Bo.

 

[thepuckmonster]

@D_Booth7: If I ever blessed enough to have a son of my own his name will be Bo Hunter Booth. Decided this last year FYI

God bless you David Booth.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Bo also brings the offense. My point is why introduce the gamble when they had 20th ranked Erne sitting there? Far less of a gamble, and still had top6 upside.

Because Shinkaruk has significantly higher upside and the Canucks will need some high end skill to replace the Sedins in a few years. Gillis has already stockpiled big forwards in Gaunce, Kassian, Jensen and Mallet - it afforded him the luxury of taking a small, highly skilled player at 24.

You can't win without high end skill and finishers. Passing on Shinkaruk for another 'safe' forward would have been a mistake IMO.

If not Shinkaruk, I probably would have looked at Marko Dano. Not surprised it was Kekalainen that snatched him up. The guy has Joe Pavelski written all over him.

 

[SweedishKeepers]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Canucks were not have offered a 1st, 2nd and a very high end prospect by the Oilers, but that is what Gillis asked for...#trustmysource

 

[Golden Boy]

So the worst thing about Shinkaruk is that he comes off as cocky and rubs some people the wrong way. I can live with that, much better than having a really bad shot, skating issues, or other physical deficiencies.

Good thing we have Bieksa and our leadership team to straighten him out then

 

[thepuckmonster]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Canucks were not have offered a 1st, 2nd and a very high end prospect by the Oilers, but that is what Gillis asked for...#trustmysource

Nice grammar Dregs.

 

[Wisp]

I'm still over the moon today that we got him.

 

[vanuck]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Canucks were not have offered a 1st, 2nd and a very high end prospect by the Oilers, but that is what Gillis asked for...#trustmysource

There we go. So for all those complaining about not taking the Oilers' package...

 

[mossey3535]

is this quantifiable, or proveable in any way? are there more players who were primarily offensive talents that became passable defensive talents rather than players who made the league as a grinder and then started scoring?

players like burrows exist but there's such a ridiculous TALENT VS EFFORT narrative that people don't understand that both defence and offence are skills

Yeah there is. One of Gabe Desjardin's most famous posts where he shows how point production at each level declines.

Almost every guy who is to us bottom-6 were 30-50 goal scorers in junior. You play against these guys, and they can absolutely light it up. There is absolutely a level of offensive skill that is mostly derived from talent that can't be taught.

The trend of AHL/CHL scorers becoming defence-first players is so common that there's practically no point doing a detailed statistical analysis of it. NHL defensive schemes are also more complicated than in junior so every player drafted has to learn to play more D regardless. Whether they do or not is a function of how tolerant their individual teams are to that ability.

There's also a lot of cases of formerly star players settling into defensive roles as they age. But go ahead and quantify it if you want.

 

[ProviesGhost]

God bless you David Booth.

Too funny. And damn that is a big mofo goat.

 

[DadBod]

Why are we dwelling on negatives here?


I personally think this is a SMOKIN pick and we got a sniper who just keeps putting the puck in the net. He could be the biggest A hole in the world but if he's scoring goals and winning games then who cares, not everyone has rainbows flowing through their veins and sweet as pie, some dudes are a little cocky...big deal!


What a great draft, pumped to have Shinkaruk on our squad and I will enjoy watching him on Canada's top line.

 

[Wisp]

Is anyone else a bit concerned over the fact that all of our best forward prospects are centres?

No. Centers are commodities and most can usually translate over to Wing pretty easy.

Gaunce and Shinkaruk have played wing in junior.