OT: 2013 MLB Discussion Thread

[BroadwayBlues]

so both Pedroia and Utley signed for about 14M per year, does that make it possible the Yankees can get Cano for under 20M?

No....

Yankees don't get discounts from their players.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Where the hell did Chris Davis come from? 41 Homeruns in 112 games?.. something's not right.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

No....

Yankees don't get discounts from their players.

It's not about discounts.. It's setting the market.

Not to mention, he's not having his greatest season in his walk year..

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Cano and CC are like the Gaborik and Richards of the Yankees this year.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Matt Harvey is so ****ing good. Me and my other baseball playing friends can make a baseball hangout night over a non-contending team without their franchise position player and still have a great time because Harvey is just a joy to watch.

Hope his knee is alright.

 

[SA16]

so both Pedroia and Utley signed for about 14M per year, does that make it possible the Yankees can get Cano for under 20M?

No because
1. Utley's is only that little because he is old
2. Pedroias contract is a huge steal for the Red Sox
3. Canos skill have historically been paid more than Pedroias (Power and "RBI' compared to average/walks/defense)
4. Cano will be a FA and have competition from the Dodgers while Pedroia signed before he reached FA.

It's not about discounts.. It's setting the market.

Not to mention, he's not having his greatest season in his walk year..

Uh, Cano is having a great year. For the first time he's actually walking a lot (though partially higher due to IBB but excluding them he still is finally walking). His average is great, slightly down, largely just due to a BABIP decline (with roughly the same batted ball profile as always), his power is in the same range as always (HR%/ISO etc..), he's still not striking out, and is around average defensively.



Harvey has a 2.09 ERA and his ERA > FIP lol

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

No because
1. Utley's is only that little because he is old
2. Pedroias contract is a huge steal for the Red Sox
3. Canos skill have historically been paid more than Pedroias (Power and "RBI' compared to average/walks/defense)
4. Cano will be a FA and have competition from the Dodgers while Pedroia signed before he reached FA.



Uh, Cano is having a great year. For the first time he's actually walking a lot (though partially higher due to IBB but excluding them he still is finally walking). His average is great, slightly down, largely just due to a BABIP decline, his power is in the same range as always (HR%/ISO etc..), he's still not striking out, and is around average defensively.



Harvey has a 2.09 ERA and his ERA > FIP lol

How do you think Cano is having a great year just because he's walking more? He's about to be hitting 280 with only 20 HR and 70 RBI, thats not mega millions money. I'm sure he will get it because it's just a bad year for him, but its not a good walk year at all (so far)

Also as for competition, the dodgers are going to most likely sign Guerrero who is a very highly touted IFA and he will likely be their 2nd baseman. I agree if they don't get him, then they will bid on Cano.

 

[SA16]

Well first off RBI is a completely useless stat so I'm not sure why you even cited it (And if we are to pretend it is useful his pace is for 101 which would be the third highest of his career...). Second I don't know why you rounded .288 to .280 instead of .290 and neglect to take into account that almost the entire reason for that decline is a small BABIP drop and variance. Third what do you mean only 20 HR? Since 2009 his PA/HR is 27.0,24.0,24.3,21.1,22.8(this year) so his HR rate is actually the second highest this year that it's been in the past 5...Additionally where did I say JUST because he's walking more I just mentioned that as a factor and that after 10 years he has finally become a guy who can walk significantly more than league average which is huge given the importance of OBP.

Now if you wanted to make a logical argument showing him having a bad year you could state that his doubles have significantly decreased this year which is a fact that could be mildly concerning.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Well first off RBI is a completely useless stat so I'm not sure why you even cited it. Second I don't know why you rounded .288 to .280 instead of .290 and neglect to take into account that almost the entire reason for that decline is a small BABIP drop and variance. Third what do you mean only 20 HR? Since 2009 his PA/HR is 27.0,24.0,24.3,21.1,22.8(this year) so his HR rate is actually the second highest this year that it's been in the past 5...Additionally where did I say JUST because he's walking more I just mentioned that as a factor and that after 10 years he has finally become a guy who can walk significantly more than league average which is huge given the importance of OBP.

RBI is a useless stat? That means you're delivering with men on base, which is what a clean up hitter is paid to do, drive in runs. He's actually at 285 with tonight's game and dropping as he's about 6 for his last 48.. Yes I'm glad his walk rate is going up and getting on base more, that was something he needed to work on despite always being a 300 hitter.. He's not having the season where you go"give that guy mega bucks" is all I"m saying. He's had much better seasons.

 

[SA16]

RBI is a useless stat? That means you're delivering with men on base, which is what a clean up hitter is paid to do, drive in runs. He's actually at 285 with tonight's game and dropping as he's about 6 for his last 48.. Yes I'm glad his walk rate is going up and getting on base more, that was something he needed to work on despite always being a 300 hitter.. He's not having the season where you go"give that guy mega bucks" is all I"m saying. He's had much better seasons.

Yes it means "Given the situation where a player is on base and the hitter is up and hits the ball somewhere in the field or possibly hits a semi deep flyball or hits a groundball with a runner on third and the runner is fast enough to round the bases and score or the fielders have weak enough arms or the bases are loaded and the pitcher is incapable of throwing a strike the player gets credit for 1 run batted in"

It also has absolutely zero predictive value, is entirely a stat of circumstance largely depending on how good the batters who hit before you are, and basically is meaningless in every possible way.

And as I just said even if we pretend it's important he is on pace for the third most RBI he's ever had in a season so how can you say he's not worth a big contract because of poor RBI production this year.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yes it means "Given the situation where a player is on base and the hitter is up and hits the ball somewhere in the field or possibly hits a semi deep flyball or hits a groundball with a runner on third and the runner is fast enough to round the bases and score or the fielders have weak enough arms or the bases are loaded and the pitcher is incapable of throwing a strike the player gets credit for 1 run batted in"

It also has absolutely zero predictive value, is entirely a stat of circumstance largely depending on how good the batters who hit before you are, and basically is meaningless in every possible way.

And as I just said even if we pretend it's important he is on pace for the third most RBI he's ever had in a season so how can you say he's not worth a big contract because of poor RBI production this year.

For the rumored money, he needs to have better seasons than this one is all I'm saying.. On top of that the market is being set with guys like Utley and Pedroia signing. Unless the Dodgers get involved, I'm not sure what team has an opening for 2B as well as the deep pockets to offer Cano a huge deal.. Which is why I think the Yankees could potentially get him for under 20M a year which is still a big time bump from any other 2B in the game.

 

[LittleKev6D9]

Good to see Wilmer with a few knocks. Be it at first or second, they gotta find a place for him to play.

Flores is an interesting case because he's a natural SS, but the Mets feel he is too big for the position so he's been playing a lot at 3B and 2B. Problem is 3B and 2B are two of the Mets strengths.

1B is probably his best bet at being a more consistent presence in the lineup, but Ike has really turned it around since the All Star Break and he is a much better fielder at 1B than Flores.

I hope Flores impresses and the Mets are able to package him and some of these young pitchers for either a SS or an OF.

 

[SA16]

But Utley is not a comparable as he is 35 years old and often injured and Pedroia isn't really a comparable as he never reached free agency (wasn't even due to be one until the end of next year). So right away he's clearly getting more than the 14M both of them are getting. Then add in teams pay more for power then they do for average/defense and he's getting even more. And then when you add in the bids on him are going to be between the two biggest spending teams in the league (Yankees/Dodgers) and that the Yankees have tons of money coming off the books he's going to be getting a huge contract.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

But Utley is not a comparable as he is 35 years old and often injured and Pedroia isn't really a comparable as he never reached free agency (wasn't even due to be one until the end of next year). So right away he's clearly getting more than the 14M both of them are getting. Then add in teams pay more for power then they do for average/defense and he's getting even more. And then when you add in the bids on him are going to be between the two biggest spending teams in the league (Yankees/Dodgers) and that the Yankees have tons of money coming off the books he's going to be getting a huge contract.

I read the dodgers are very close to getting Guerrero who is considered to be the best IFA prospect for 2B.. If the Dodgers are out, that would help the Yankees immensely. Also, I am in favor of giving Cano a huge contract (as long as its 7 years or less) because he is a 4 tool player, he has everything but speed.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Where the hell did Chris Davis come from? 41 Homeruns in 112 games?.. something's not right.

And he needs to stop. I want Miggy to win that second Triple Crown. Davis and his inability to never not hit homeruns is incredible.

Matt Harvey is so ****ing good. Me and my other baseball playing friends can make a baseball hangout night over a non-contending team without their franchise position player and still have a great time because Harvey is just a joy to watch.

Hope his knee is alright.

Actually makes Mets baseball fun again.

 

[darko]

RBI is a useless stat? That means you're delivering with men on base, which is what a clean up hitter is paid to do, drive in runs. He's actually at 285 with tonight's game and dropping as he's about 6 for his last 48.. Yes I'm glad his walk rate is going up and getting on base more, that was something he needed to work on despite always being a 300 hitter.. He's not having the season where you go"give that guy mega bucks" is all I"m saying. He's had much better seasons.

Somewhat useless.

In 2011 Jose Bautista was arguably top hitter in baseball. Granderson and Konerko had more RBIs than Bautista because rest of the Jays lineup was mediocre. It's a team based stat. You cant rack up RBIs if those in front of you don't get on base.

 

[darko]

Harvey is one of the top handful of pitchers in the game, in just his second year. He's amazing. .

If the season ended today he'd get my vote for Cy Young. However you cant go wrong with Kershaw and Wainwright.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yankees have alot of options next year for a #4/5 starter with Pineda, Phelps, Warren, Nuno. I really think if we keep Kuroda, the pitching as a whole will be good next year.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Flores is an interesting case because he's a natural SS, but the Mets feel he is too big for the position so he's been playing a lot at 3B and 2B. Problem is 3B and 2B are two of the Mets strengths.

1B is probably his best bet at being a more consistent presence in the lineup, but Ike has really turned it around since the All Star Break and he is a much better fielder at 1B than Flores.

I hope Flores impresses and the Mets are able to package him and some of these young pitchers for either a SS or an OF.

Hard to call Flores a natural SS when he's not very good at it.

I would say he's a natural hitter who you get into your line-up in some position.

 

[Made Dan]

Worst loss of the season last night. That one stung.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Hard to call Flores a natural SS when he's not very good at it.

And the Mets seem to have no intention of trying him there.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

Cano is going to get 20 something per. We're not getting him for 14 mil. I think he makes that now.

He's peaking right now. At 31, I'm not signing him to a lengthy (7-10 yrs) contract. If he wants one and or gets it from somewhere else, let him walk.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Cano is going to get 20 something per. We're not getting him for 14 mil. I think he makes that now.

He's peaking right now. At 31, I'm not signing him to a lengthy (7-10 yrs) contract. If he wants one and or gets it from somewhere else, let him walk.

I think the Yankees are in a good spot with Cano. There seems to be a backlash against the big contracts as so many have backfired of late. And I'm not sure what team is going to be so quick to throw a big contract at Cano (not Boston, LAA, LAD, TEX, NYM). Maybe the Cubs. Of the second teir teams, the Yankees should be able to beat those teams out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know who the Yankees are really going to be competing against for Cano.

 

[Crease]

Unfortunately Flores fits best at 2B right now. If (when) he develops more pop, maybe put him in one of the corners outfield spots, but thats a ways away. I'm a huge Murphy fan by the way. He's like the Dan Girardi of baseball.

 

[Crease]

Flores doesn't hit for enough power (and I doubt he ever will) to be an everyday 1B in the NL. He's a line drive hitter with pull power.