2013 LMHF Game Report #3

[Worraps]

I completely disagree with this. Hemsky wasn't great last night but to say that Hemsky is dragging Yakupov down is crazy.

Right now Yakupov is a total disaster in his own zone. His decision making is totally different than his teammates he rifles 100 mph cross ice passes, and he almost always tries to make the highest risk play.

Yakupov is an all world talent and he will be a very good player soon, but right now he's just way too unpredictable. Krueger benched him in the third for a reason.

Yakupov is a disaster in his own zone. He is learning to play a new position in the best league in the world. That's a given.

There is nothing wrong with hard passes as long as they are along the ice (Yakupov's are). NHL players need to be able to accept them.

At the end of the day Hemsky hasn't been able to find an open Yakupov in the offensive zone (he has been) or hit a breaking Yakupov in the neutral zone (he's been doing this too).

If he wants to dangle through defenseman and not use his teammates, that's fine. Just don't waste two offensively gifted line mates on him. He can play with Horcoff and Smyth.

 

[Kamus]

If I were Krueger, I would tell him he has a very simple set of jobs: fly the zone to create stretch pass chances as both #89 and 83 can get him the puck, get open at the top of the circle and the slot for shots and stay there as long as you can, and drive the middle when you get the puck and enter the zone. Three simple things he can do and be effective.

His biggest problem right now is when he gets the puck in his own zone, nobody knows what he will do with it, this is where he has to make the simplest play right now, just give it back to the dman and head up ice.

 

[Matt Ryan]

The Hemsky analysis is literally bi-polar.

I think he played a pretty good game. A few turnovers through the neutral zone and a few fan passes, but overall he was solid and flying out there. Looks like he's getting his legs back and his hands will soon follow.

I have no idea how someone can say he was "downright awful" tonight. It really amazes me what this player needs to do to win back some fans.

You have to realize that Hemsky is the main puck handler and he's the main outlet for defensive passes. This is the reason he gets into trouble. With all the errant passes to streaking wingers and players that are learning to play together, this is what happens.

nuff said. You Hemsky haters should really look at other pressing needs. Such as our veteran line of Smyth and Horcoff, or Petry's 3 game in a row where he's been a defensive hole.

btw, excellent job OP as per usual.

I completely agree. People use youth as an excuse way too freely. Hemsky isn't perfect and he does what he does. I don't expect him to be a shutdown guy. He has been playing to his strengths and is the go to guy on that line. Honestly I think yak needs to improve his positioning, not to say he is dragging then down or anything. It'll come and we don't need a blender right now.

 

[dustrock]

Joe, I'm with you on Hemsky in that I think he can be confusing to play with.

Thus the countless offsides, holding the puck too long, etc.

Are we expecting Hemsky to be the playmaker on line 2? Because he is most effective like Hall, on the rush, or close to the net.

He's better down low than on the half wall because he kills the play on the half wall

 

[Pressure]

I am not saying he is dragging Yakupov down but he certainly isn't utilizing him like he should but I think one of Hemsky's faults for his career is not using his team mates and holding on to the puck far too long

Krueger benched a rookie in the 3rd wow what a shocker.

Yes I agree you can see things live that you can't on TV but let's not kid ourselves Hemsky has never been a great off the puck player and from the glimpses I have seen he hasn't suddenly become better.

The fact is he will be judged mostly with the puck since he is expected to be an offensive player and I counted 8 times last night he lost the puck at the offensive blue line.

I am not going to argue too much about this because some people seem to think he is playing fantastic while some of us are clearly on the other end. Time will tell what the team thinks

Well up until this point the team/management has obviously liked him well enough to keep offering him contracts, put the A on his chest and then praise the crap out of him in the media. It's a minority of bipolar Oiler FANS that think he's worth a second rounder. They had their chances to trade him at the deadlines/draft when he could have fetched them a minimum of a first round draft pick and blue chip prospect, but didn't pull the trigger.

They are not going to trade Hemsky in the foreseeable future. He's a veteran leader and anchors the second line. Do you want Yakupov and Gagner handling all the outlet passes right now? hell no.

 

[McGreat One]

I completely disagree with this. Hemsky wasn't great last night but to say that Hemsky is dragging Yakupov down is crazy.

Right now Yakupov is a total disaster in his own zone. His decision making is totally different than his teammates he rifles 100 mph cross ice passes, and he almost always tries to make the highest risk play.

Yakupov is an all world talent and he will be a very good player soon, but right now he's just way too unpredictable. Krueger benched him in the third for a reason.

I agree with this 100%. Yakupov hasn't looked too bad on the powerplay but even strength he's been a little disappointing. I don't really get why Hemsky is taking all the heat especially seeing how the 2nd line hasn't even been playing bad. We knew before the season started that they weren't the most defensive minded line on the team but they're offence so far has made up for it.

One thing I've noticed about Yakupov that is disturbing to me is that he wanders around the ice a little too much which makes it hard for Gagner and Hemsky to find him with a pass because they never know where he's going to be. Yak is supposed to be the left winger on this line and more often than not you'll see him breaking out of the zone on the right wing right alongside Hemsky. Maybe he still hasn't gotten used to playing on the left side yet or maybe we should try Hemsky on the left side seeing how that's where he plays on the powerplay anyway but either way we got to change something up there.

 

[Quinteoilers]

There's always going to be conflict. It is mainly stylistic. The same people that think Hemsky is a "turnover machine" don't believe that Hall is and it is entirely due to style. I tried to get into some of it in my analysis of the Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky line but that doesn't always get through.

After seeing Yakupov live, how fast is his skating? It looks like he keeps pace (on TV), but could he be setting the pace some day?

 

[member 145483]

I thought Yakupov looked confused last night.

Colorado picked up pretty quick on Hemsky/Yakupov's intended transition point and put a D men there.

Yakupov didn't really know how to compensate. Kept re circling or going to the wrong side to change the transition. Didn't work.

Just ended up looking a bit like a headless chicken.

Can definitely see how hard he is fighting his natural tendencies though, so I expect him to get much better positionally as the year goes on.

All in all, I would say that Hemmer and Nail looked bad due to poor communication and decent positional play by the opposing defence, more so than either didn't put in effort.

One point of concern for me is Yakupov's lack of defensive awareness. He is going to cost us a lot if he keeps cutting through our D to D outlet pass area. Causes a ton of confusion during the transition and gives our D only one option on the play.

 

[LaGu]

So here's my take on how to handle Yakupov (although I think it is too late by now so this is more of an after though...):

You instruct him in what it means to play on a 4th line in the NHL and then put him there for the next 10-15 games. Basically to learn what it means to play on a defensive checking line but you do keep him on the first PP unit. After those game you move him back up to take his proper place on one of the top lines.

Of course it needs to be very clear that this is a temporary solution intended to make him understand, and improve, different parts of his game.

Don't bash me all at once...

 

[Worraps]

So here's my take on how to handle Yakupov (although I think it is too late by now so this is more of an after though...):

You instruct him in what it means to play on a 4th line in the NHL and then put him there for the next 10-15 games. Basically to learn what it means to play on a defensive checking line but you do keep him on the first PP unit. After those game you move him back up to take his proper place on one of the top lines.

Of course it needs to be very clear that this is a temporary solution intended to make him understand, and improve, different parts of his game.

Don't bash me all at once...

What exactly do you think a fourth line is?

They are called a shutdown line not because they are gifted defensive players, but because they are so poor offensively that they are instructed to simply focus on preventing the other team from scoring and gaining the other team's zone. If the gifted players didn't need to rest, they wouldn't play at all.

Yakupov's development as an elite offensive player is poorly served by playing on the fourth line.

As far as giving the team its best chance to win: I am fairly certain that once liberated from Hemsky, even while making lots of defensive gaffes, Yakupov will end up creating more high quality scoring chances than he gives up.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

What exactly do you think a fourth line is?

They are called a shutdown line not because they are gifted defensive players, but because they are so poor offensively that they are instructed to simply focus on preventing the other team from scoring and gaining the other team's zone. If the gifted players didn't need to rest, they wouldn't play at all.

Yakupov's development as an elite offensive player is poorly served by playing on the fourth line.

As far as giving the team its best chance to win: I am fairly certain that once liberated from Hemsky, even while making lots of defensive gaffes, Yakupov will end up creating more high quality scoring chances than he gives up.

So Hemsky is the reason why Yakupov is not creating more offensively than he currently is and is also the reason for Yakupov's defensive gaffes.

Got it. Absolutely got it.

 

[Worraps]

So Hemsky is the reason why Yakupov is not creating more offensively than he currently is and is also the reason for Yakupov's defensive gaffes.

Got it. Absolutely got it.

Yes and no. One out of two isn't bad.

Hemsky has never done a good job of using his teammates. Yakupov is a shooter. If Hemsky chooses to dangle through 2 defenseman rather than move the puck, Yakupov isn't going to shoot. Hemsky is a contributing factor to Yakupov not generating offense at ES.

Yakupov is making defensive gaffe's because he's a 19 year old rookie learning a new position while playing in the best league in the world. They're going to happen no matter who he plays with but given the offense he is capable of bringing you grin and bare them.

 

[OF17]

Yakupov has three goals in five games. Sure, one of those is an empty-netter, but Yak is still delivering in areas he best excels in. The defense will come. In the mean time we get to watch a potential 50-goal scorer grow up while not significantly handicapping his line. All in all I'm extremely happy to have Yak on that LW.

Aside from the top line, Gagner is really the story from last night though. Tough, strong on the puck, engaging with the opposition, and most importantly, contributing to chances.

Hemsky has been good too, which is always nice to see. I still can't help but fantasize about what that line would look like with a Clowe, Kunitz, or Malone on it instead. Less skill, but it could be a nightmare to cycle against.

 

[LoudmouthHemskyfan#1]

After seeing Yakupov live, how fast is his skating? It looks like he keeps pace (on TV), but could he be setting the pace some day?

The man can absolutely fly. Just needs to direct his efforts more efficiently. He'll learn. He's so enthusiastic and such a hard worker that he can't help himself.

 

[LoudmouthHemskyfan#1]

Yakupov has three goals in five games. Sure, one of those is an empty-netter, but Yak is still delivering in areas he best excels in. The defense will come. In the mean time we get to watch a potential 50-goal scorer grow up while not significantly handicapping his line. All in all I'm extremely happy to have Yak on that LW.

Aside from the top line, Gagner is really the story from last night though. Tough, strong on the puck, engaging with the opposition, and most importantly, contributing to chances.

Hemsky has been good too, which is always nice to see. I still can't help but fantasize about what that line would look like with a Clowe, Kunitz, or Malone on it instead. Less skill, but it could be a nightmare to cycle against.

Gagner was certainly the story. He stepped up big time last night and it was mainly because he was simply more efficient. Yakupov will learn to do that and be our best goal scorer. As I put forth earlier, give him a simple set of things to do and tell him that's all he's responsible for. He doesn't need to carry us, so capitalize on strengths and then use his supreme work ethic to learn the rest in practice and through video with the coaches. Don't chuck the diamond. Cut it correctly then shine it up.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

Would like to see Yakupov play the give-and-go before the blue line and just get to the net a little harder. I have seen him try to open up himself in the slot, which is fine, but he needs to get involved more in the cycle game, so that he can get open at the right time.

The 2nd line is still a bit off in its timing, but hopefully they'll get there. As others have mentioned, no one can really fault Gagner; he has the ability to adapt to the people he plays with.

 

[LaGu]

What exactly do you think a fourth line is?

They are called a shutdown line not because they are gifted defensive players, but because they are so poor offensively that they are instructed to simply focus on preventing the other team from scoring and gaining the other team's zone. If the gifted players didn't need to rest, they wouldn't play at all.

Yakupov's development as an elite offensive player is poorly served by playing on the fourth line.

As far as giving the team its best chance to win: I am fairly certain that once liberated from Hemsky, even while making lots of defensive gaffes, Yakupov will end up creating more high quality scoring chances than he gives up.

It worked for N.Backstrom and Zetterberg. Zetterberg was easy to put on the 4th since he was/is very good defensively and could do a good job there as well as learn to adapt. Backstrom was not good playing defense when he came over and put him on 4th so that he could focus on it for a while, obviously not with the intention to create a defensive forward, just to get the idea.

Anyway, I don't think you got the idea of what I was saying since I basically (but not fully) agree with your take on what a 4th line is. It was not to say that he needs to be playing with the best defensive players and learn from them. The idea is to instruct him on the defensive game and about what it means to have defensive responsibility basically without thinking about offense.

 

[torcidasplit]

Yes and no. One out of two isn't bad.

Hemsky has never done a good job of using his teammates. Yakupov is a shooter. If Hemsky chooses to dangle through 2 defenseman rather than move the puck, Yakupov isn't going to shoot. Hemsky is a contributing factor to Yakupov not generating offense at ES.

Yakupov is making defensive gaffe's because he's a 19 year old rookie learning a new position while playing in the best league in the world. They're going to happen no matter who he plays with but given the offense he is capable of bringing you grin and bare them.

The guy has 308 assists in 564 NHL games, yeah he really sucks at using his linemates.

 

[sepHF]

The Hemsky analysis is literally bi-polar.

I think he played a pretty good game. A few turnovers through the neutral zone and a few fan passes, but overall he was solid and flying out there. Looks like he's getting his legs back and his hands will soon follow.

I have no idea how someone can say he was "downright awful" tonight. It really amazes me what this player needs to do to win back some fans.

You have to realize that Hemsky is the main puck handler and he's the main outlet for defensive passes. This is the reason he gets into trouble. With all the errant passes to streaking wingers and players that are learning to play together, this is what happens.

nuff said. You Hemsky haters should really look at other pressing needs. Such as our veteran line of Smyth and Horcoff, or Petry's 3 game in a row where he's been a defensive hole.

btw, excellent job OP as per usual.

HFoils opinion on Hemsky just blows my mind. I'd really like to know what everyone expects from the guy. Very lofty expectations for a player who we're all very familiar with.

The guy has 308 assists in 564 NHL games, yeah he really sucks at using his linemates.

seriously...

 

[Replacement*]

So much frustration in the thread directed at Hemsky and Yakupov. My take is much different. Gagner has benefitted from playing with the two even if theres some notable warts in the play of the others. What either Yak, or Hemsky gives a line is explosive potential and this opens up the ice for GAgner who is good working with some open ice. Gagner makes mostly sensible plays and so is a good complement for these two other players who are largely wildcards.

Hemsky on the rush is what he always has been. Somebody that tries to beat players one on one continually. You won't see him make many of the safe plays but beating guys has been his bread and butter. Its a risk/reward game he plays. You learn to take some of the unsuccessful rushes as long as he's not turning it over up high. Hemskys game is actually more sensible then it was earlier in his career when I was a critic. Overall I think he's fitting more than people are giving him credit for. I would doubt Gagner has many complaints right now.

Far as Yak people really need to give it a rest. 18 yrs old and you suffer the growing pains gladly WITH him having a continual diet of topsix because he's just that good and its how he'll learn to grow his game.

This is a good line people and its working a lot better together then seems to be revealed when people key in only on individual efforts. Fact of the matter is the top line is giving the puck away as much as the second line. Gagner is very aware defensively so again just a good fit.

Definitely keep this line together. Yak would get a little rattled playing with the cool uberkids right now. This Gagner/Hemmer line is his right speed for now. Players showing similar NHL pedigree at the moment (of course Yak will exceed either in time)

Most importantly you can tell this is a "happy" line with the players enjoying, and benefitting from each other's contributions and ALL being the better for it. You don't break up that chemistry when you find it. This is a very good spot for our young Yak to land with years of experience beside him.

Its official. Gagner at 23 is a veteran now.

 

[Worraps]

It worked for N.Backstrom and Zetterberg. Zetterberg was easy to put on the 4th since he was/is very good defensively and could do a good job there as well as learn to adapt. Backstrom was not good playing defense when he came over and put him on 4th so that he could focus on it for a while, obviously not with the intention to create a defensive forward, just to get the idea.

Anyway, I don't think you got the idea of what I was saying since I basically (but not fully) agree with your take on what a 4th line is. It was not to say that he needs to be playing with the best defensive players and learn from them. The idea is to instruct him on the defensive game and about what it means to have defensive responsibility basically without thinking about offense.

Backstrom and Zetterberg didn't come into the league with Yakupov's known skill set (this would apply to almost anyone not picked first overall) and they played for better teams. Yakupov is the Oilers' best option for secondary scoring, they'd be nuts to bury him on the fourth line.

Leftwing is a relatively simple position to play, at both ends of the ice. In the defensive zone: Yakupov is doing a fine job of covering the point, he just needs to work on his zone exits.

At the end of the day I severely doubt that playing Yakupov with worse players is going to help him get better at exiting his zone.

 

[torcidasplit]

HFoils opinion on Hemsky just blows my mind. I'd really like to know what everyone expects from the guy. Very lofty expectations for a player who we're all very familiar with.



seriously...

Forgot to put the sarcasm after my quote..

 

[LaGu]

Backstrom and Zetterberg didn't come into the league with Yakupov's known skill set (this would apply to almost anyone not picked first overall) and they played for better teams. Yakupov is the Oilers' best option for secondary scoring, they'd be nuts to bury him on the fourth line.

Leftwing is a relatively simple position to play, at both ends of the ice. In the defensive zone: Yakupov is doing a fine job of covering the point, he just needs to work on his zone exits.

At the end of the day I severely doubt that playing Yakupov with worse players is going to help him get better at exiting his zone.

I know it's never going to happen but I am supporter of letting players start out on the bottom lines despite what they bring to the table in terms of quality. A bit like starting on the floor of a factory and then work yourself up.

Anyway the reasons you list (in bold) are obviously correct (although both players I mentioned came off very strong seasons before coming over and in the end both finished up in the very top of the rookie scoring race, Zetterberg 1st, Backstrom 2nd). I do think it is too bad that we cannot afford to let some of our young talents easy in to the team but instead they are instantly put on the top lines and expected to carry us on their shoulders.

You haven't convinced me that it would be a bad idea, but since the idea is not based on reality I think I'll leave it at that .

 

[Worraps]

I know it's never going to happen but I am supporter of letting players start out on the bottom lines despite what they bring to the table in terms of quality. A bit like starting on the floor of a factory and then work yourself up.

Anyway the reasons you list (in bold) are obviously correct (although both players I mentioned came off very strong seasons before coming over and in the end both finished up in the very top of the rookie scoring race, Zetterberg 1st, Backstrom 2nd). I do think it is too bad that we cannot afford to let some of our young talents easy in to the team but instead they are instantly put on the top lines and expected to carry us on their shoulders.

You haven't convinced me that it would be a bad idea, but since the idea is not based on reality I think I'll leave it at that .

In general I completely agree with you. When we're talking about first overall picks playing on teams without a lot of depth, I differ.

 

[Worraps]

HFoils opinion on Hemsky just blows my mind. I'd really like to know what everyone expects from the guy. Very lofty expectations for a player who we're all very familiar with.

When considered in isolation, I am quite happy with Hemsky's play thus far.

I'm disappointed that he hasn't embraced the opportunity to build chemistry with a really good shooter but I'm not particularly surprised.

Given he hasn't shown much interest in becoming a setter, I think he'd be just as effective on a line with Smyth and Horcoff as he is with Gagner and Yakupov.

I suspect the Oilers have an opportunity to increase the ES production of second and third lines without really hurting the production of the first line by flipping RNH for Gagner and Hemsky for Hartikainen. This would move Yakupov back to RW where he's most comfortable, reunite Gagner with Hall and Eberle, insert Harski's grit into the top 6, and give the Horcoff line some scoring punch.