Speculation: 2013 - Free-agent Discussion

[RoyIsALegend]

Unfortunately, this isn't a video game where we can shuffle contracts around easily and make room for every player. Our organization's focus will be on the summer of 2014 and securing Duchene/Landeskog/Varlamov, hopefully O'Reilly, and others, to long-term contracts... as it should be. Again, our organization has shown zero indication of being willing to spend anywhere near the cap until we're a playoff team. We are not going to be good next year, at least not with major changes and 3+ UFA signings. Time to accept that.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Unfortunately, this isn't a video game where we can shuffle contracts around easily and make room for every player. Our organization's focus will be on the summer of 2014 and securing Duchene/Landeskog/Varlamov, hopefully O'Reilly, and others, to long-term contracts... as it should be. Again, our organization has shown zero indication of being willing to spend anywhere near the cap until we're a playoff team. We are not going to be good next year, at least not with major changes and 3+ UFA signings. Time to accept that.

At least not without major changes you mean? I'd agree, and the idea of us signing that many players is a fantasy (Reality wise, but not when talking about the salary cap). But I'm hoping that management at least sees that one or two defensive vets on shorter contracts, less than three years could benefit the amount of youth we have in that area long term.

 

[henchman21]

Unfortunately, this isn't a video game where we can shuffle contracts around easily and make room for every player. Our organization's focus will be on the summer of 2014 and securing Duchene/Landeskog/Varlamov, hopefully O'Reilly, and others, to long-term contracts... as it should be. Again, our organization has shown zero indication of being willing to spend anywhere near the cap until we're a playoff team. We are not going to be good next year, at least not with major changes and 3+ UFA signings. Time to accept that.

I agree with this, which is why it might be best for next season if the Avs pick MacKinnon, then trade Stastny for a top 4 D + prospect/1st round pick. I'm not saying that this should be the path, but is the best for NEXT season while maintaining salary flexibility for 14-15.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I agree with this, which is why it might be best for next season if the Avs pick MacKinnon, then trade Stastny for a top 4 D + prospect/1st round pick. I'm not saying that this should be the path, but is the best for NEXT season while maintaining salary flexibility for 14-15.

It just depends on what Duchene, Stastny and O'Reilly are willing to sign for, we can find that out this off-season. If we can lock all three up for 16-17M, then we'll be fine keeping all three.

That's what I'd prefer, any forward we draft can fill a need hole in our top 6/9. Jones is looking farther and farther away with every win we put up though. Unfortunately...

You know that if we draft Mackinnon or Barkov, and use them at center. Eventually we will run into the same perceived problem that we have now. Strong center depth, but not enough quality wingers to utilize all three.

 

[Sheet]

Unfortunately, this isn't a video game where we can shuffle contracts around easily and make room for every player. Our organization's focus will be on the summer of 2014 and securing Duchene/Landeskog/Varlamov, hopefully O'Reilly, and others, to long-term contracts... as it should be. Again, our organization has shown zero indication of being willing to spend anywhere near the cap until we're a playoff team. We are not going to be good next year, at least not with major changes and 3+ UFA signings. Time to accept that.

I'm probably the minority here, but I feel with individual talent, our roster isn't too bad outside of d.. I feel our forwards are generally better then what the numbers show, same as varly and ej..

We're missing a few small pieces but I really feel we're not in as bad of a spot as this season indicates. If we bring in a new coach with a new system we could see a play off team without major changes I think, by to become a playoff team management needs to make the moves to make it happen.

I guess my question is if we need a few key pieces that cost money but they won't spend money.... what happens? Do we just wait until our young crew develops into playoff calibre materiAl?
Genuine question.

 

[henchman21]

It just depends on what Duchene, Stastny and O'Reilly are willing to sign for, we can find that out this off-season. If we can lock all three up for 16-17M, then we'll be fine keeping all three.

That's what I'd prefer, any forward we draft can fill a need hole in our top 6/9. Jones is looking farther and farther away with every win we put up though. Unfortunately...

You know that if we draft Mackinnon or Barkov, and use them at center. Eventually we will run into the same perceived problem that we have now. Strong center depth, but not enough quality wingers to utilize all three.

You at least get 3 years of MacKinnon at ~3.75m. With Duchene set to make 7+ and ROR 6+, that stays in the 16-17m range. Whereas Stastny staying puts all 3 staying around 19-20m. It can be done either way, MacKinnon just gives a bit more headroom for 14-15 and 15-16.

As for wings (assuming Downie is re-signed) we would have Landy, PAP, Downie, McGinn, and Jones in the NHL. Sgarbossa could possibly play LW in a couple years, and maybe the prospect demanded in a Stastny trade is a winger or the pick is used on a winger like Mantha. Or sign Stalberg this summer with the freed up money. There are options to fill out the top 9.

The trade could be something like Sbisa + Rakell or Nitkitin + Atkinson or Gunnarsson + Biggs etc.

Just a thought.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You at least get 3 years of MacKinnon at ~3.75m. With Duchene set to make 7+ and ROR 6+, that stays in the 16-17m range. Whereas Stastny staying puts all 3 staying around 19-20m. It can be done either way, MacKinnon just gives a bit more headroom for 14-15 and 15-16.

As for wings (assuming Downie is re-signed) we would have Landy, PAP, Downie, McGinn, and Jones in the NHL. Sgarbossa could possibly play LW in a couple years, and maybe the prospect demanded in a Stastny trade is a winger or the pick is used on a winger like Mantha. Or sign Stalberg this summer with the freed up money. There are options to fill out the top 9.

Just a thought.

Duchene is not a UFA, hes not getting 7+ while hes got RFA years left. Everyone thinks that RFA status does not mean anything after what O'Reilly did, but that's far from the truth. How many players are going to want to go through the same thing he did? Duchene also said specifically that he wouldn't go about things the same way O'Reilly did.

I also don't think Stastny is going to net the kind of return 'some' people are hoping for. Basically enough to make it worth more to trade him than keep him. At least without adding some sort of strong piece going along with him like one of Barrie, Elliott, or Sgarbossa.

There will not be a ton of teams looking to add 6M in salary, if we have to trade Stastny I have a feeling it's going to be disappointing. (Which is why those scenarios are not as much fun to think about for me.)

Edit: I also hate even thinking about the idea of relying in anyway on David the ghost of pirates past Jones, for any sort of production. Which means in any way counting on him to be a regular top 9/6 forward on a team that roles three scoring lines.

 

[henchman21]

Duchene is not a UFA, hes not getting 7+ while hes got RFA years left. Everyone thinks that RFA status does not mean anything after what O'Reilly did, but that's far from the truth. How many players are going to want to go through the same thing he did? Duchene also said specifically that he wouldn't go about things the same way O'Reilly did.

I also don't think Stastny is going to net the kind of return 'some' people are hoping for. Basically enough to make it worth more to trade him than keep him. At least without adding some sort of strong piece going along with him like one of Barrie, Elliott, or Sgarbossa.

There will not be a ton of teams looking to add 6M in salary, if we have to trade Stastny I have a feeling it's going to be disappointing. (Which is why those scenarios are not as much fun to think about for me.)

If Duchene stays roughly on his pace that he is now (which I fully expect), he would get 8.5 on the UFA market. 7 will be a discount.

 

[CobraAcesS]

If Duchene stays roughly on his pace that he is now (which I fully expect), he would get 8.5 on the UFA market. 7 will be a discount.

Simply don't agree, UFA market? Yeah he would, RFA contract on his hometown team, after watching O'Reilly rake this team over and having as much of a problem with it as he did, no way IMO.

He wants to win as an Av and I think hes the one guy on the team who is most likely to take a hometown discount in order to help the team moving forward. We'll see, hopefully we know the answer to this in a few months.

 

[henchman21]

Simply don't agree, UFA market? Yeah he would, RFA contract on his hometown team, after watching O'Reilly rake this team over and having as much of a problem with it as he did, no way IMO.

He wants to win and think hes the one guy on the team who is most likely to take a hometown discount in order to help the team moving forward. We'll see, hopefully we know the answer to this in a few months.

We will see in about a year... If the Avs were smart they would negotiate an 8 year extension for Duchene after this season. If he puts up over 80 points next season, he can conceivably ask for more than he can now.

 

[cgf]

Unfortunately, this isn't a video game where we can shuffle contracts around easily and make room for every player. Our organization's focus will be on the summer of 2014 and securing Duchene/Landeskog/Varlamov, hopefully O'Reilly, and others, to long-term contracts... as it should be. Again, our organization has shown zero indication of being willing to spend anywhere near the cap until we're a playoff team. We are not going to be good next year, at least not with major changes and 3+ UFA signings. Time to accept that.

I'd classify a coaching change and a top 3 pick as major changes. With those changes we wouldn't need 3+ ufa signings. We'd need 1, maybe 2. If Scuderi was one of those UFA signings we'd be in the race til the last moment at the very least.

 

[Jayevs]

Hishon-Duchene-Parenteau
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Downie
McGinn-Stastny-Horton
Mitchell-Goc-Gordon
McLeod-Olver-Bordeleau

Kulikov-EJ
Scuderi-Barrie
Hejda-Elliott
Wilson-Hunwick

Varlamov
Giguere
Pickard
Aittokallio

 

[AvsRobin]

Hishon-Duchene-Parenteau
Landeskog-O'Reilly-Downie
McGinn-Stastny-Horton
Mitchell-Goc-Gordon
McLeod-Olver-Bordeleau

Kulikov-EJ
Scuderi-Barrie
Hejda-Elliott
Wilson-Hunwick

Varlamov
Giguere
Pickard
Aittokallio

Who are we giving up to get Kulikov?

 

[Avs71]

Who are we giving up to get Kulikov?

Zanon+O'Brien+D.Jones+Sacco.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Who are we giving up to get Kulikov?

Well, I don't see our 2013 1st round pick there, so...

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Who are we giving up to get Kulikov?

Looks like our first for Kulikov and Goc, terrible.

That team costs more than 64.3mil and throws us in a hole for the future.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If we trade our 2013 1st for anything short of an OEL or a Pietrangelo, I will rage.


Our pick is gonna be a huge part of this team.

#1 choice is Jones although that seems unrealistic. #2 Pick of Mackinnon seems a little more likely.

Adding Mackinnon to our offense turns it from average, to potentially Elite.

On the same level as the Oilers offense.

 

[AvsRobin]

Imagine of we traded our 2013 1st for Varlamov and took Filip Forsberg with our pick last year, and he wouldn't have helped us this season.

 

[shadow1]

Disagree. Throw Scuderi a large short term contract. something like 2 yr/6 mil AAV.

What's the point of throwing so much money at a short term solution?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Imagine of we traded our 2013 1st for Varlamov and took Filip Forsberg with our pick last year, and he wouldn't have helped us this season.

Trading our pick outright would put Sherman on even a hotter seat than he currently sits on. Not happening IMO...

 

[AvsRobin]

What's the point of throwing so much money at a short term solution?

I guess cause we have the cap space. But that would seriously hurt us in the summer of 2014... When O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Downie, Landeskog, McGinn and Barrie bases their asking price on that Scuderi makes 6.0M during 14/15 season.

 

[AvsRobin]

Trading our pick outright would put Sherman on even a hotter seat than he currently sits on. Not happening IMO...

I meant, Imagine if we traded our 2013 1st for Varly instead of our 2012 1st, a year ago.

 

[shadow1]

Imagine of we traded our 2013 1st for Varlamov and took Filip Forsberg with our pick last year, and he wouldn't have helped us this season.

It would be like having two Varlamov's and no 1st Round Pick!

 

[Freudian]

I can't see Avs trading their first.

To get a finished player, you basically have to sacrifice a lot of potential. You give up a potential franchise player for a second line forward/#3 defender. Kulikov isn't even a finished player. He's got lower potential but still has a lot of risk to his development. He's very raw.

There is a reason it's pretty much unheard of for teams to trade top five picks (unless it's a 6th-10th overall pick involved). Giving up that kind of potential would require a great return and no one wants to give up that kind of great return for potential.

There is a psychological aspect to it all. No GM wants to give up what can turn into a superstar. That's the reason the trade return would have to be very high for them to do it. No one wants to be a Milbury.

 

[AslanRH]

Our 1st (even if #3) should return Kulikov+Fla's 2nd+Shore/Howden minimum if indeed Florida would move Kulikov. Avs would have 2 high 2nds to either add good players for depth/future or move back into the 1st while adding at least 1 decent young winger.

Florida getting Drouin and MacKinnon together to add to the base of their forward core with Huberdeau and Bjugstad would be a valuable play for them both on and off the ice. They have a couple decent prospects on defense as well as Gubranson, Campbell, and Brennan. Avs could always throw in O'Brien or Hunwick to increase the return.