Prospect Info: 2013-2014 Sabres Prospect Repository

[NotABadPeriod]

3rd line center is a unique role....This is different from saying they are a 3rd/4th line player.

the idea of a 3rd liner is a strong defensive, strong face off center with some offensive skill but you arent relying on them for offensive production.

If they have more offensive upside then they go up to 2nd line and play in a more offensive role and their numbers likely go up.

in looking at the Sabres depth at center it would appear that Grigorenko and Hodson would be 1st and 2nd line because of their projected offensive upside. Gigensons is projects as a 3rd line because of his checking line role.

Could he be much better than expected in the offensive game..absolutely.

I think this is a classical notion which the league is moving away from. When you look at who has drawn the toughest oppposition among recent champs its guys like Toews/Bolland, Bergeron, Kopitar, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, J.Staal, etc. Teams are looking more and more for a center with offensive capabilities whom they can match up vs the top lines. Teams are looking for scoring lines that can handle "checking" line duties. Defensively responsible 3rd lines are definitely still around, but the idea that your top defensive center is a 3rd liner is no longer the case.

Girgensons can be that kind of player for us--anchor a top 6 line that you can also throw out against top opposition. If he can produce the kind of offense that say Bergeron does, that would be the best case scenario.

 

[Jame]

I think this is a classical notion which the league is moving away from. When you look at who has drawn the toughest oppposition among recent champs its guys like Toews/Bolland, Bergeron, Kopitar, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, J.Staal, etc. Teams are looking more and more for a center with offensive capabilities whom they can match up vs the top lines. Teams are looking for scoring lines that can handle "checking" line duties. Defensively responsible 3rd lines are definitely still around, but the idea that your top defensive center is a 3rd liner is no longer the case.

Girgensons can be that kind of player for us--anchor a top 6 line that you can also throw out against top opposition. If he can produce the kind of offense that say Bergeron does, that would be the best case scenario.

I think it's both... meaning, the best teams role with lines anchored by Centers who play a complete 2 way game. Whether that center is the "#1 line" or the "3rd checking line".

I agree and disagree... the "top 6" is changing (more emphasis on 2 way forwards, complete centers, etc)... while the "bottom 6" remains the same (lesser talented offensive players who bring that 2 way game)

 

[Woodhouse]

I don't believe it has been noted here yet, but MODO will be rolling with Ullmark and Anton Forsberg (CBJ, 2011 7th #188) in goal, as financial limitations have forced Naslund to part ways with Starkbaum. [LINK]

 

[Woodhouse]

Also, if you're in the NY/NJ area, you may be able to get a live look at Hurley, Petersen and Peterson in early September at the USHL Atlantic Challenge (preseason), but that'd mean they're not in attendance for the Traverse City tourney.

 

[Woodhouse]

Buffalo Sabres Top 10 Prospects

1. Mikhail Grigorenko, Center
2. Rasmus Ristolainen, Defense
3. Nikita Zadorov, Defense
4. Joel Armia, Right Wing
5. Zemgus Girgensons, Center
6. J.T. Compher, Center
7. Mark Pysyk, Defense
8. Johan Larsson, Center
9. Jake McCabe, Defense
10. Brayden McNabb, Defense

Organizational Ranking: 3rd

System Overview

The Sabres boast an elite farm system, anchored mainly by their past two draft classes. Grigorenko is a star prospect, and Buffalo's top five or six prospects are extremely strong. The system's depth is slightly above average, and their pipeline has a lot of players who are close to NHL-ready, which the struggling Sabres sorely need.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1563

 

[Zip15]

FWIW:

Red Line Report ‏@daredlinereport 4h
Top permormer at the draft table; 1; BUF Give them an A+ and a gold star. The clear draft day champions for us; each of their first 6 >

> selections were ranked in Red Line’s top 57. Rest of the top 5 in our eyes;
2 CGY
3 NYR
4 WPG
5 EDM

https://twitter.com/daredlinereport

 

[gallagt01]

An interesting read from That's Offside concerning the production of defensemen not translating to the NHL. He takes a few shots at Zadorov and calls into question his NHL future (not centric to Nikita - other players, too).

http://thats-offside.blogspot.com/2013/06/defense-defensemen-and-draft.html

 

[joshjull]

An interesting read from That's Offside concerning the production of defensemen not translating to the NHL. He takes a few shots at Zadorov and calls into question his NHL future (not centric to Nikita - other players, too).

http://thats-offside.blogspot.com/2013/06/defense-defensemen-and-draft.html

Thats not really what the article is about. He's talking about the likelihood of a unproductive CHL dman of making the NHL. His poster boy for the article is the Pens' 2011 2nd rounder Scott Harrington. He is annoyed by players getting highly rated for intangibles (heart, grit, toughness) and tangibles that he feels get too much weight in evaluations (like height, size, girth, etc).

His arguement is you need to be productive at both ends of the ice in order to have a shot at making the NHL. Even if you end up being a defensive dman.

Based on historical data, a CHL defenseman taken early in the draft with fewer than 0.6 Pts/GP in his draft year, like Scott Harrington or Dylan McIlrath or Colten Teubert, only has about a 1 in 10 chance of even making the NHL as a full-time player. Going back to Harrington, only 3 players in the last 15 years have scored at a lower rate in their draft years and established themselves as NHL regulars: Mark Fistric, Tyler Myers, and Shea Weber. However, Fistric was never a big scorer and finds himself dangerously close to falling out of "NHL regular" status, while Weber and Myers grew into elite 19-year old scorers in their draft +2 seasons. Weber had 0.75 Pts/GP with Kelowna, and Myers put up an impressive 48 points in the NHL. Harrington still finds himself under 0.40 Pts/GP in his draft +2 season, which means he's tracking to be just like the other 91 guys who haven't ever made the show full-time.

His shots at Zadorov

Just based on the stuff that was outlined above, you can say with a fair degree of certainty that Zadorov, Morin, Heatherington, Diaby and Kanzig all will not be long-term impact NHL players (coincidentally, all of these guys are 6'5 or taller, with the exception of 6'3 Dillon Heatherington) unless someone gets really, really lucky. It just goes to show the love affair that scouts have with nice bodies, as Dan Dorazio will tell you:

Also, Corey Pronman calls Jordan Subban "risky" because of his small frame and defensive question marks, when he's probably a far, far less risky pick than either Zadorov of Morin. A coach can tell guys where to stand in the defensive zone, but a coach can't tell a guy to be talented. As the numbers have shown, the youngest Subban probably has a 50/50 shot at the NHL, whereas the odds are stacked against the 9th ranked Zadorov about 10/90.

But all is not lost since he basically admits if they have a strong post draft year or two it sort of negates this. As evidenced by Myers, Weber, Letang, Marc Staal and Brayden Coburn.

The problem with his proclamations against Zadorov is a lack of knowledge of his specific situation. Which I understand is going to happen when coming up with something like this. But in Zadorov's case he will be asked to take on an increased role offensively next year. So the jury is still out in this respect.

 

[jBuds]

Thats not really what the article is about. He's talking about the likelihood of a unproductive CHL dman of making the NHL. His poster boy for the article is the Pens' 2011 2nd rounder Scott Harrington. He is annoyed by players getting highly rated for intangibles (heart, grit, toughness) and tangibles that he feels get too much weight in evaluations (like height, size, girth, etc).

His arguement is you need to be productive at both ends of the ice in order to have a shot at making the NHL. Even if you end up being a defensive dman.




His shots at Zadorov




But all is not lost since he basically admits if they have a strong post draft year or two it sort of negates this. As evidenced by Myers, Weber, Letang, Marc Staal and Brayden Coburn.

The problem with his proclamations against Zadorov is a lack of knowledge of his specific situation. Which I understand is going to happen when coming up with something like this. But in Zadorov's case he will be asked to take on an increased role offensively next year. So the jury is still out in this respect.

Also, what makes Zadorov noticeably different in my eyes is the fact that last season was his first in this country, on this ice, in this kind of league stylistically...

he was a +33 and he was self-admittedly learning the offensive side of the game on the fly.

It's no secret that this coming season will be a good tell as to where we may stand with him ultimately, but I don't think it's fair to lump him in the same boat as the others mentioned in the article for a variety of reasons

 

[gallagt01]

Thats not really what the article is about. He's talking about the likelihood of a unproductive CHL dman of making the NHL.

Pretty much what I had said.

Nice summation, regardless. I'd say it's unfair of him to lump those players together without assessing each situation individually.

His poster boy for the article is the Pens' 2011 2nd rounder Scott Harrington. He is annoyed by players getting highly rated for intangibles (heart, grit, toughness) and tangibles that he feels get too much weight in evaluations (like height, size, girth, etc).

His arguement is you need to be productive at both ends of the ice in order to have a shot at making the NHL. Even if you end up being a defensive dman.




His shots at Zadorov




But all is not lost since he basically admits if they have a strong post draft year or two it sort of negates this. As evidenced by Myers, Weber, Letang, Marc Staal and Brayden Coburn.

The problem with his proclamations against Zadorov is a lack of knowledge of his specific situation. Which I understand is going to happen when coming up with something like this. But in Zadorov's case he will be asked to take on an increased role offensively next year. So the jury is still out in this respect.

 

[Dubi Doo]

JT Compher:




That last shift was beastly!

Edit:
Here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkxEX9xi_70&feature=share&list=UUOUTxGOx0gMsaolqyg8oWdQ

 

[Ball1374]

Per Bakes' Twitter:

USA Blue claws back w/ a pair of goals but trails SWE 3-2 end 2nd. Lots of big hits that period for both sides. Possler 1+2. Goal was a gem

Good to hear Possler producing, really excited to have him in the system, could be a total steal.

 

[VictorLustig]

 

[Woodhouse]

Devine said the organization will use the rookie tournament in Traverse City, Mich., and training camp to determine whether Logan Nelson (5th round in 2012) and Eric Locke (7th in 2013) will be offered entry-level contracts or if they will go back to play an overage season in junior.

The too-much/too-soon signings of Riley Boychuk and Shawn Szydlowski in September 2012 has, if nothing else, perhaps made them a little more cautious when it comes to relying on unproven kids out of junior.

“We maybe jumped the gun a little bit there and maybe learned a lesson,” Devine admitted. “But by the time we see them (Nelson and Locke) in Traverse City and camp, we’ll have a pretty good read on them.”

http://blogs.democratandchronicle.com/kevino/?p=4717

 

[Jacob582]

Kris Baker ‏@SabresProspects
No drumroll. Just rankings. http://www.sabresprospects.com/2013/08/buffalo-sabres-2013-14-preseason.html … #Sabres

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Kris Baker ‏@SabresProspects
No drumroll. Just rankings. http://www.sabresprospects.com/2013/08/buffalo-sabres-2013-14-preseason.html … #Sabres

Shoulda done them one tweet at a time...

 

[tsujimoto74]

Shoulda done them one tweet at a time...

Or maybe one letter at a time so the conclusion of the list coincided with the reveal of the Sabres new thirds.

 

[brian_griffin]

To the HFBoards admins:

The navy blue "prospect crawl" at the top of the Sabres board page continues to list T.J. Brennan, who is no longer part of the Sabres organization (Traded BUF-FLA-NAS, then signed with TOR in offseason.)

Figured it needs to be corrected once the Sabres HF prospect rankings are revised, (if anyone can find the code / look-up tables the crawl references).

Thanks for all you do for the site, and providing all of us the opportunity to "waste time" on one of our passions!!

 

[sjci]

Ran into Grigorenko, Armia, Zadarov, and Makarov at Abercrombie & Fitch at the Galleria Mall. They looked bigger in person, definitely not like your average 20 year old. Probably most are hanging out around Buffalo now waiting for the tourney and training camp.

 

[Jacob582]

Ran into Grigorenko, Armia, Zadarov, and Makarov at Abercrombie & Fitch at the Galleria Mall. They looked bigger in person, definitely not like your average 20 year old. Probably most are hanging out around Buffalo now waiting for the tourney and training camp.

You sure Ristolainen wasn't there? Armia seems out of place.

I kind of thought Zadorov looked like a skinny kid after the scrimmage. Maybe they've all been in the gym this summer.

Supposedly a lot of prospects have spent some time in Buffalo this summer training. Grigorenko has been back and forth (Buffalo and Quebec - for training). Zadorov was waiting for his visa to go to his junior training camp (stuck in Buffalo!). Thought he got it in time, but looks like he is staying in Buffalo.

***
Source:

Kris Baker ‏@SabresProspects 23 Aug
While waiting for his visa to arrive (and a chance to see his OHL ring), Nikita Zadorov has been working in Buffalo http://www.lfpress.com/2013/08/22/championship-has-nice-ring-to-it …

Nikita Zadorov ‏@zadorov61 28 Aug
Finally I get my Canadian visa!Cant wait to see all the boys @GoLondonKnights #family

Ryan Pyette ‏@RyanatLFPress 30 Aug
Zadorov waiting for Canadian visa to be mailed from Russia. He'll just stay in Buffalo now for their rookie camp starting next week.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

An interesting read from That's Offside concerning the production of defensemen not translating to the NHL. He takes a few shots at Zadorov and calls into question his NHL future (not centric to Nikita - other players, too).

http://thats-offside.blogspot.com/2013/06/defense-defensemen-and-draft.html

Actually it's about the opposite, without CHL production defenseman dont make a transition to the NHL. I generally have a problem when a person picks 1 aspect of a player and tries to make broad sweeping generalizations, it tends to be very narrow and can often confuse what the actuall causes are. Do players with low offensive production fail because they aren't good enough? Or because higher scorers get more ice time to develop at the AHL level. It's possible that teams try so hard to develop offensive talent in defensive defenders that they neglect the need to refine their defensive skills vs the much bigger, faster and more skilled opposition of the pro leagues. Alternatively do these low production defenders get their stock boosted because they play with better partners? Maybe there's a correlation between goaltenders and where a failed defensive draft pick missed. Or is there an issue with players with upside being pulled from their development before theyve polished themselves defensively. In a news article it's hard to cover a topic this broad. Which is why I'm glad Devine and co. can examine all the factors and can look at things other than point production.

 

[sjci]

You sure Ristolainen wasn't there? Armia seems out of place.

Yepp, Armia, Grigo, Zadarov, & Makarov. And they were with some blonde girl that Girgo kept mackin on...it got a little weird.

 

[KevinChurch*]

While I'm at it, Armia at least has the potential to be a 30-40 goal scorer. His natural shooting ability is fantastic, he has good hands, he's good one-on-one, and he has passing ability. He's also become a more aggressive player and has improved his skating a lot. Combine that with his plus size and there's a pretty good chance he'll be able to fulfil his potential. He's not going to be a 'gamebreaker' because the guys with that label have elite skating along with other high-end tools, but as unsexy as it will sound to some, he has the potential to be our next Vanek or Satan.

30 to 40 goal scorer at least?
wow

With his shooting % last year in Europe he's going to have to rack up an awful lot of shots on goal

 

[KevinChurch*]

An interesting read from That's Offside concerning the production of defensemen not translating to the NHL. He takes a few shots at Zadorov and calls into question his NHL future (not centric to Nikita - other players, too).

http://thats-offside.blogspot.com/2013/06/defense-defensemen-and-draft.html

Good link, good article

That's interesting because I recently made a comment along these lines to someone with a strictly, let's say 'fan mentality'.
I wasn't attempting to make any forecasts, especially at this stage, but pointed out that those grit and toughness attributes don't always translate to the NHL.
In particular this business about..."forwards are going to hate to play us" LOL
NHL players aren't easily 'scared off' (I made similar comments/cautions in regard to the Kassian hype and was concerned with his lack of scoring)

I mentioned in that post that I've heard very little about Zadorov possessing a high skill set.
I'm under the impression from their comments that most of these casual fans associate great defense directly with toughness or big hits
And I hear that Zadorov needs to work on technique and positioning in his own end, that's concerning

Word is that at this point he hasn't displayed high end skill and his technique in his own end needs lots of work yet he's a surefire superstar in the minds of the fans because he's big.
The bigger the player is the more sure they are.

With some exceptions, I stay guarded with my opinions on draft picks , and in particular with 'big Dmen' who are drafted because "we'll be harder to play against"

Jim Rutherford, GM of Carolina is said to avoid drafting Dmen early, and I listened to him say that early in the draft his main criteria, be it a forward or a defense man is skill, not size, he emphasized that.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Good link, good article

That's interesting because I recently made a comment along these lines to someone with a strictly, let's say 'fan mentality'.
I wasn't attempting to make any forecasts, especially at this stage, but pointed out that those grit and toughness attributes don't always translate to the NHL.
In particular this business about..."forwards are going to hate to play us" LOL
NHL players aren't easily 'scared off' (I made similar comments/cautions in regard to the Kassian hype and was concerned with his lack of scoring)

I mentioned in that post that I've heard very little about Zadorov possessing a high skill set.
I'm under the impression from their comments that most of these casual fans associate great defense directly with toughness or big hits
And I hear that Zadorov needs to work on technique and positioning in his own end, that's concerning

Word is that at this point he hasn't displayed high end skill and his technique in his own end needs lots of work yet he's a surefire superstar in the minds of the fans because he's big.
The bigger the player is the more sure they are.

With some exceptions, I stay guarded with my opinions on draft picks , and in particular with 'big Dmen' who are drafted because "we'll be harder to play against"

Jim Rutherford, GM of Carolina is said to avoid drafting Dmen early, and I listened to him say that early in the draft his main criteria, be it a forward or a defense man is skill, not size, he emphasized that.

You heard Jimmy Rutherford say that did you? The same GM whose teams have finished worse than Buffalo for the last 3 seasons. It takes a special bad to make me think we are better off with Darcy. Rutherford possess that special bad.