Prospect Info: 2013-14 Adirondack Phantoms (AHL), ECHL, NCAA, Juniors, International, etc.

[CutOnDime97]

Morin is back in the lineup for Rimouski after a possible suspension. Couldn't really find much info, but he was out last game and I saw some tweets that said he was suspended.

 

[Akanon]

Shootout victory for Rimouski, Morin with an assist.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Shootout victory for Rimouski, Morin with an assist.

He got into a scrap as well.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Highlights- http://www.oceanic.qc.ca/video/index/id/d785266739b272e4f096db4d15a01d2c

A little bit of Morin's scrap is in there. But the second goal by Sherbrooke was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/120622

Morin's fight, pretty good two way fight.

 

[Curufinwe]

McGinn-Newbury-Akeson
VandeVelde-Bordson-Holmstrom
Straka-Cousins-Alderson
Brown-Flanagan-Mangene

Manning-Gervais
Konan-Alt
Lauridsen-Eddy.

So VdV has been playing mainly left wing?

 

[StoneHands]

Not really people here but I remember when people were penciling Cousins into the lineup after seeing his stats last year. Now he's playing 3rd line in the AHL and not really producing.. I know he's still young but this is the exact reason why I try to make people come down to earth when doing the same thing with Laughton and thinking he can step right in next year and be a good 3rd line center.

 

[Chuck Downie]

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/120622

Morin's fight, pretty good two way fight.

I'd say the Refs stepped in before Morin hurt that guy.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Not really people here but I remember when people were penciling Cousins into the lineup after seeing his stats last year. Now he's playing 3rd line in the AHL and not really producing.. I know he's still young but this is the exact reason why I try to make people come down to earth when doing the same thing with Laughton and thinking he can step right in next year and be a good 3rd line center.

He's played like 30 pro games and only 22 this season. He has 9 points but those came in like the first 12 or so games. He's struggling a bit recently but it means absolutely nothing. You said it yourself he's only 20. His pointless drought doesn't mean anything.

 

[StoneHands]

He's played like 30 pro games and only 22 this season. He has 9 points but those came in like the first 12 or so games. He's struggling a bit recently but it means absolutely nothing. You said it yourself he's only 20. His pointless drought doesn't mean anything.

Yeah, thanks, I understand that and I never said anything to the contrary. What I DID say is that people need to stop looking at 19-20 year olds putting big numbers in Juniors and expect them to step right into the NHL and do the same thing. I heard a lot of people talking early in the season saying that they should trade Couts because Laughton is going to be so much better than him and I saw other people saying that Cousins should have been called up when Downie and Lecavalier went down because he's better than Couts and Schenn already.

 

[flyershockey]

Not really people here but I remember when people were penciling Cousins into the lineup after seeing his stats last year. Now he's playing 3rd line in the AHL and not really producing.. I know he's still young but this is the exact reason why I try to make people come down to earth when doing the same thing with Laughton and thinking he can step right in next year and be a good 3rd line center.

Cousins has always had question marks surrounding whether or not his offense would transition to pro hockey, that's part of the reason he was a mid-round pick. He's played under 100 pro games, so I'm not going to write the guy off yet.

Laughton should be able to step into the NHL next year. There's been nothing to suggest that he can't come in immediately and make an impact in the bottom six.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, thanks, I understand that and I never said anything to the contrary. What I DID say is that people need to stop looking at 19-20 year olds putting big numbers in Juniors and expect them to step right into the NHL and do the same thing. I heard a lot of people talking early in the season saying that they should trade Couts because Laughton is going to be so much better than him and I saw other people saying that Cousins should have been called up when Downie and Lecavalier went down because he's better than Couts and Schenn already.

Those people are the worst.

 

[Psuhockey]

Not really people here but I remember when people were penciling Cousins into the lineup after seeing his stats last year. Now he's playing 3rd line in the AHL and not really producing.. I know he's still young but this is the exact reason why I try to make people come down to earth when doing the same thing with Laughton and thinking he can step right in next year and be a good 3rd line center.

Laughton and Cousins are nowhere near the same quality of prospect. Laughton has already played 5 games at the NHL level and didn't look out of place. I agree sometimes there are unsuspecting hang ups coming out of juniors, like with Giroux, so he might not be able to step right in. However Laughton is even a different case from Giroux coming out of juniors. Giroux had to work on his defensive play, much like Cousins, while Laughton is known for his strong two way game. The question mark with Laughton is will his offensive game translate to the NHL and time in the AHL probably won't help that.

 

[StoneHands]

Cousins has always had question marks surrounding whether or not his offense would transition to pro hockey, that's part of the reason he was a mid-round pick. He's played under 100 pro games, so I'm not going to write the guy off yet. .

I'm not writing him off, what I'm saying is that people shouldnt assume guys can step right into the NHL from Juniors jsut because they were good against 16-19 year olds when they were 19.

Laughton should be able to step into the NHL next year. There's been nothing to suggest that he can't come in immediately and make an impact in the bottom six

I hope so but at the same time there's nothing to suggest that he can step in as a 3rd line center and make an impact. In his limited time here, he wasnt exposed but that was also only a few games and it's not like he showed tons of offensive potential. I just don't want him playing 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, I'd rather see him in the AHL.

 

[flyershockey]

I'm not writing him off, what I'm saying is that people shouldnt assume guys can step right into the NHL from Juniors jsut because they were good against 16-19 year olds when they were 19.


I hope so but at the same time there's nothing to suggest that he can step in as a 3rd line center and make an impact. In his limited time here, he wasnt exposed but that was also only a few games and it's not like he showed tons of offensive potential. I just don't want him playing 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, I'd rather see him in the AHL.

You're right. The leap from juniors to pro hockey, especially to the NHL, is massive. Anyone who thought that he could do it with his size and skill set, was either misinformed or an idiot.

I think Laughton gets one of two roles next year; he either plays the wing on the third line (which might mean that they see him as winger long term), or he starts as the fourth line center. I don't really like doing that to a young player, but that seems to be how they handle things. Schenn was really the only young player in recent memory that they pretty much gave a top six spot to from day one. Giroux, JVR, Couturier, Read, etc. all started in the bottom six.

 

[StoneHands]

Laughton and Cousins are nowhere near the same quality of prospect. Laughton has already played 5 games at the NHL level and didn't look out of place. I agree sometimes there are unsuspecting hang ups coming out of juniors, like with Giroux, so he might not be able to step right in. However Laughton is even a different case from Giroux coming out of juniors. Giroux had to work on his defensive play, much like Cousins, while Laughton is known for his strong two way game. The question mark with Laughton is will his offensive game translate to the NHL and time in the AHL probably won't help that.

I 100% disagree with the bolded. The AHL game is much more like the NHL than the OHL is. In the AHL he'll be playing against bigger stronger men who are all professionals. He'll be leaving a league with a much more wide open, high scoring style of play. Playing in the AHL, getting top line minutes and PP time will give him some time to develop that offense against players much more comparable to what he'll see in the NHL. I personally wouldn't mind him starting in the AHL next season. We already have 3 good centers and we could call up Laughton a month or two into the season when Vinny suffers his inevitable month long injury. We could bump Couts up to the 2nd line and give Laughton 3rd line duties. I'd just hate to see him waste away on the 4th line.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Yeah, thanks, I understand that and I never said anything to the contrary. What I DID say is that people need to stop looking at 19-20 year olds putting big numbers in Juniors and expect them to step right into the NHL and do the same thing. I heard a lot of people talking early in the season saying that they should trade Couts because Laughton is going to be so much better than him and I saw other people saying that Cousins should have been called up when Downie and Lecavalier went down because he's better than Couts and Schenn already.

I remember some saying that Laughton would be better then Couts but not once did I see someone say Cousins is already better then Couts and Schenn. I just can't even believe anyone would be that dumb.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying about Cousins and his struggles I just assumed that was a knock at his future. And as far as Laughton is concerned and stepping into the NHL next year I think he's in an entirely different situation. Laughton is significantly bigger (3 inches and at least 10lbs heavier) and he plays a different style. Nick is an offensive player who has struggles defensively. Laughton takes care of his own end first. Both those attributes make it easier for a young kid like Laughton to make the transition to the NHL. In other words I don't think Cousins' struggles this year in the AHL are a good indication of what can be expected of Laughton next year. I don't think Laughton is gonna step in and put up 30+ points mind you, I think 20+ with decent line-mates (not Rosehill and Rinaldo as his wingers) is more then doable and adequate.

 

[Psuhockey]

I 100% disagree with the bolded. The AHL game is much more like the NHL than the OHL is. In the AHL he'll be playing against bigger stronger men who are all professionals. He'll be leaving a league with a much more wide open, high scoring style of play. Playing in the AHL, getting top line minutes and PP time will give him some time to develop that offense against players much more comparable to what he'll see in the NHL. I personally wouldn't mind him starting in the AHL next season. We already have 3 good centers and we could call up Laughton a month or two into the season when Vinny suffers his inevitable month long injury. We could bump Couts up to the 2nd line and give Laughton 3rd line duties. I'd just hate to see him waste away on the 4th line.

In theory what you say seems plausible but the reality of it is that the AHL is not that great of a development league for anything other than goalies, bottom 6 forwards, and bottom pair defensemen. Top 6 forwards need virtually no AHL time and those ones that get it, tear up the league to the point where they are called up quickly. Meltzer did a study of it for this very website many years ago (will try to find the link) and the facts shows that top 6 forwards spend virtually no time in the AHL and top 4 defensemen a 1yr to 1 1/2 max. There are occasional exceptions but they usually involve players going to the AHL before regular Canadian junior age players would or just really rare late bloomers. Laughton's offense is going to translate or not.

Here are the links:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5673/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5677/ahl_development_breakdown_part_ii_defensemen/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5683/

 

[Curufinwe]

I just don't want him playing 8 minutes a game on the 4th line, I'd rather see him in the AHL.

What if he plays 8 minutes on the 4th line, 2 minutes on the PK, and also gets some time on other lines when injuries happen? Having good players on the 4th line helps the team.

 

[StoneHands]

In theory what you say seems plausible but the reality of it is that the AHL is not that great of a development league for anything other than goalies, bottom 6 forwards, and bottom pair defensemen. Top 6 forwards need virtually no AHL time and those ones that get it, tear up the league to the point where they are called up quickly. Meltzer did a study of it for this very website many years ago (will try to find the link) and the facts shows that top 6 forwards spend virtually no time in the AHL and top 4 defensemen a 1yr to 1 1/2 max. There are occasional exceptions but they usually involve players going to the AHL before regular Canadian junior age players would or just really rare late bloomers. Laughton's offense is going to translate or not.

Here are the links:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5673/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5677/ahl_development_breakdown_part_ii_defensemen/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5683/

Laughton wasnt drafted as a top offensive talent though. He's not expected to be a top 6 forward any time soon. That's basically his ceiling if all goes perfect. He projects more to be a middle 6 guy. Someone who can play great 3rd line duties and step into the 2nd line if needed and not crap the bed. I think the point you're making works for top end offensive talent. Like you said, you either have it, or you don't. Top offensive talent drafted steps into the NHL and often gets handed a top 6 role or 3rd line with PP time. In that situation, yeah, it's sink or swim. You go through your slumps in the NHL and learn as you go but those guys are given minute and linemates to help them through it. Someone like Laughton is still developing his offense. He's likely going to come in as the 4th line center next year flanked by Rinaldo and some other plug where he'll play limited ES minutes, some PK, and very little if any PP time. If we ever want him to be a guy who can put up 40+ points, I'd rather see him get some professional experience in an offensive role.

What if he plays 8 minutes on the 4th line, 2 minutes on the PK, and also gets some time on other lines when injuries happen? Having good players on the 4th line helps the team.

I agree in Theory that having good players helps the team and I would have no problem doing this if the Flyers changed their thinking(yeah, ok) and went with a 4th line like a lot of other teams do where you have energy guys instead of goons. If it's Rinaldo-Laughton-Rosehill I want no part of him on the Flyers. If it's Raffl-Laughton-Cousins I have no problem with it.

 

[BillDineen]

In theory what you say seems plausible but the reality of it is that the AHL is not that great of a development league for anything other than goalies, bottom 6 forwards, and bottom pair defensemen. Top 6 forwards need virtually no AHL time and those ones that get it, tear up the league to the point where they are called up quickly. Meltzer did a study of it for this very website many years ago (will try to find the link) and the facts shows that top 6 forwards spend virtually no time in the AHL and top 4 defensemen a 1yr to 1 1/2 max. There are occasional exceptions but they usually involve players going to the AHL before regular Canadian junior age players would or just really rare late bloomers. Laughton's offense is going to translate or not.

Here are the links:
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5673/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5677/ahl_development_breakdown_part_ii_defensemen/
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/5683/

Thanks for posting this. Articles are old, but the defenseman one is especially telling. You either have it or you don't, as they say, seems to apply.

EDIT: Quick look at some top D that spent more than a season in the AHL:

Brian Campbell 177 games
Duncan Keith 154 games (part lockout)
Keith Yandle 99 games

Most others are less than 1 season.

EDIT2: Some forwards that spent more than a season in the AHL:

Sharpe 163 games facepalm (part lockout)
Krejci 94 games (part lockout)
Kunitz 118 games (part lockout)
Turris 86 games
Nielson 102 games
MacArthur 163 games

 

[StoneHands]

I never said I wanted Laughton in the AHL for more than 1 season. If he needs more than 1 season, that's a serious concern.

 

[Psuhockey]

Someone like Laughton is still developing his offense.

What will he be developing? His shot? His hands? His passing ability? All those thing are probably as good as they are going to get for a 20 year old. His shot might improve with a little strength as will his board work and puck possession, but pure offensive tools are usually apparent by 18 let alone 20. Look at how fast offensive talent drys up in the draft. The question is can he produce at the speed of the NHL game and against NHL level goaltending so going against slower competition and worst goaltending won't really help him. It actually hurt Couturier last year as he brought up some bad habits from the AHL after the lockout because he was able to get away with a lot more down their than in the NHL.

As far as his role next year and his line mates: it's the Flyers, who the hell knows what this roster will look like next year. I do find it interesting though that when they interviewed Lecavalier at the draft last year, they asked him if he could play right wing even though they had two top 6 right wingers in Voracek and Simmonds. It is doubly interesting when you also factor in that they have been trying to move B. Schenn to wing as well.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

I don't think Laughton will be better than Couturier, but I do think hell be better than Schenn

 

[StoneHands]

What will he be developing? His shot? His hands? His passing ability? All those thing are probably as good as they are going to get for a 20 year old. His shot might improve with a little strength as will his board work and puck possession, but pure offensive tools are usually apparent by 18 let alone 20. Look at how fast offensive talent drys up in the draft. The question is can he produce at the speed of the NHL game and against NHL level goaltending so going against slower competition and worst goaltending won't really help him. It actually hurt Couturier last year as he brought up some bad habits from the AHL after the lockout because he was able to get away with a lot more down their than in the NHL.

As far as his role next year and his line mates: it's the Flyers, who the hell knows what this roster will look like next year. I do find it interesting though that when they interviewed Lecavalier at the draft last year, they asked him if he could play right wing even though they had two top 6 right wingers in Voracek and Simmonds. It is doubly interesting when you also factor in that they have been trying to move B. Schenn to wing as well.

Laughton was well under a PPG his draft year and only had 23 points the year before as opposed to guys like Couturier and Schenn who were well above a PPG even as 16 year olds, those are guys that don't need time to develop their offensive skills, though it could be argued that Couts could have benefited from it. Laughton isnt a guy who's been dominating offensively at every level he's been at and he just needs to bring that to the NHL, his offensive game has just really taken off the last 2 seasons. Obviously the skill was always there but it's still developing in my opinion.

We can just agree to disagree I guess because we'll never know what's best for him unless he steps in day 1 and is solid defensively while putting up decent numbers. I just think he needs some fine tuning of his offensive skills and that he can further progress them playing top line minutes and PP in the AHL for a season(or even half as I suggested before) rather than with plugs on the 4th line in Philly.