2012 NHL Draft Guides (ISS, McKeen's, RLR, The Hockey News, FC, Hockey Prospect)

Mark Edwards

@MarkEdwardsHP
Feb 14, 2008
1,061
1,288
Toronto
www.HockeyProspect.com
Appreciate the kind words. I'm glad you like the Black Book.:)


I've been purchasing numerous draft guides since 2006. This year I purchased THN, ISS, FC, McKeen's, RLR and HP. The only one that hasn't arrived yet is RLR which I always find to be a very good read....should be arriving this week. The guide that really stands out so far this year is the HP Black Book. The player profiles are very detailed and well written. With some of the guides, I question whether the writers/scouts have really seen some of the players they report on. This isn't the case with HP as you can tell from the elaborate reports that these guys have been to the rinks. Many of the HP profiles also have quotes on the players that provide some additional value-added insight from scouts from a personal/candid level. Also, the game reports are a nice feature. Definitely a good read and worthwhile purchase.
 

Jared Ramsden

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
6,212
1
Calgary
I've only gotten through one section of HP's Black Book, but it's absolutely loaded with great detail, even on prospects who might not even end up getting drafted. A really well put-together guide, definitely recommend it, especially for those that crave lots of prospect detail and information.
 

Prussian_Blue

Registered User
Apr 9, 2003
7,737
1
futurenotes.blogspot.com
Does anyone know when either the i.s.s draft preview or the regular ($29.99) hockey prospect.com pdf file preview(not the black book) will be ready? Both were supposed to be sent out by end of may..

I got the digital version of the ISS Draft Guide a couple of weeks ago... but I had to send a couple of e-mails directly to the publisher's personal e-mail address because the link I was getting at my subscriber page was not working.

I've always liked the ISS Guide, and they seem to have a pretty good handle on prospects both here and in the major European hockey-playing countries.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
I've already purchased the Hockey Prospect Black Book, and I really do enjoy it.

I do want to purchase just one more guide though. What would you recommend?
 

grits207

Registered User
Jun 24, 2009
818
13
Saint John, N.B.
I've already purchased the Hockey Prospect Black Book, and I really do enjoy it.

I do want to purchase just one more guide though. What would you recommend?

I highly recommend FC's guide if you are going to buy one more. Also, nhlmockdraft.org has a free downloadable draft guide available on their site which is worth checking out.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
I highly recommend FC's guide if you are going to buy one more. Also, nhlmockdraft.org has a free downloadable draft guide available on their site which is worth checking out.

Thanks for the information. I was already leaning towards FC because of their presence on HF, and you put it over the top.

I'll check out the free one too.
 

Jabroni

The People's Champ
Jun 1, 2008
7,522
168
What does "LC" mean for the player position in the Hockey Prospect NHL Black Book?
 

Mark Edwards

@MarkEdwardsHP
Feb 14, 2008
1,061
1,288
Toronto
www.HockeyProspect.com
Somehow I missed this post earlier. Great feedback and I'm glad you found the 2012 rankings. :laugh:




Oh, really? I did see the rankings for 2013, so when I just went back to the book I felt quite embarrassed realizing the 2012 rankings ended the page before the 2013 top-30. My bad! :laugh:
Either way, I think it differs alot from the usual draft guide in the way that the actual rankings of players has a very minor role in it, but it's not really something negative. IMO it's rather built as a massive prospect guide, and is just a great source of information while skipping some of the usual parts in draft guides, like the mock draft and team profiles. I really don't think you should change that for next year, as it stands it's a perfect compliment to a regular draft guide that's sorted by draft rankings with shorter player descriptions that's easier to follow during the draft, but when you want to get into detail on a player, just look for him in the Black Book.
I understand now how you have sorted both the players and game reports, but if there's something you could work on for next year it's adding some extra headlines with team names, sorting the teams player in alphabetical order under them and in the case of game reports - make the separation of OHL, WHL etc more distinct since it all seems a bit mashed together at the moment. And if possible, add even more game reports! That was likely the most intriguing part of it all, following a players progress throughout the season.
 

Timeless Winter

SaveD the Crew
Oct 13, 2006
17,586
1,257
Cleveland, Ohio
I've only gotten through one section of HP's Black Book, but it's absolutely loaded with great detail, even on prospects who might not even end up getting drafted. A really well put-together guide, definitely recommend it, especially for those that crave lots of prospect detail and information.

Where can I find this?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,727
5,961
I can concur with those who like the Hockey Prospect Black Book. I've been buying up draft guides for a few years and two years ago Hockey Prospect was kind of still a new kid on the block so I didn't buy their draft guide. Last year, I decided to pick up their draft guide just to see what can possibly be in a book over 200 pages that is sold on amazon. :shakehead. I'm glad I did. Could they have done the draft guide in less than 100 pages? I think so, but they wanted to cut into their profit margins by make it into a nicely bounded book with decently-sized text so I'm not going to stop them. You can see sample pages on amazon. The 2012 draft guide appears to be similar in format. The one thing that impressed about their draft guide was the number of prospects covered. I was able to find a short scouting report on prospects that weren't covered by other guides, and even if it was covered by other guides, HP had more to say about the prospect. For obscure or lesser known CHL prospects, Hockey Prospect is the way to go, although they might include a prospect that isn't eligible for this year's draft (last year they included Phil Di Giuseppe). :yo:

The Black Book

Fast-forward to this year, I decided to go with the Black Book even though it costs quite a bit more money than their draft guide, which IMO is a steal given the cost of other draft guides, especially if you get the print version. Anyhow, the Black Book is worth the money IMO. The game reports really add to the scouting reports and are a fascinating read. The "quotables/scout's notes" are also a nice touch. What surprised me about the Black Book is that it's quite different from the draft guide (judging from last year's draft guide and the sample pages on amazon). For some reason, even the player's height and weight seem to be listed different in the Black Book as opposed to the Draft Guide (correct me if I'm wrong). While I suspect the Black Book contains a whole lot more "quotables/scout's notes" than in the Draft Guide, the Draft Guide also seem to contain quotables/scout notes that aren't found in the Black Book (correct me if I'm wrong). Additionally, the Draft Guide contains prospect interviews while the Black Book doesn't. Why the difference? I'm guessing HP is really trying to separate the two products. The Black Book is a lot more like a publication aimed for other scouts and NHL teams while the Draft Guide is aimed at us hockey fans. Still, in my mind, I was hoping that the Black Book has everything the Draft Guide contains, at least in terms of scout notes, but I'm just nitpicking here as the relevant parts of the quotables found in the Draft Guide are in the Black Book, only worded differently. For the most part, the Black Book seems to contain everything that the Draft Guide does with a bit more coverage for some prospects (not to mention game reports) and obviously a lot more coverage of 2013 and 2014 draft-eligible prospects.

Overall Impression

Overall, I'm very impressed with the Black Book. I think Hockey Prospect has really put in a lot of work in improving it's product. It's certainly becoming a more polished publication. Content-wise, the Black Book is very competitive with the best draft guides out there. One complaint, and it's understandable, is that HP is much stronger in its CHL scouting than USHL and Europe. Obviously, HP can only write on who they have seen, but it does leave to curious circumstances. For example, the Black Book has nothing on Brian Hart, ranked 95 by HP, and 54 by CSB, but the Black Book has something on Colby Drost, ranked 196 by HP and NR by CSB. This is a serious oversight, and I expect that as resources allow, HP will add to their team of scouts. I know that two years ago, I didn't buy the HP guide because someone wrote that there was a top prospect that was left out of the guide.

Another thing I didn't like is that the Black Book arranged the prospects according to the alphabetical order of team names separated by leagues from the OHL to the WHL to the QMJHL and so on. Why OHL first and then WHL and then QMJHL? No idea except for Ontario bias. :nod: In regards to grouping prospects by teams, again this could be that HP wanted the Black Book to be for scouts and NHL teams rather than us fans, but unless you know the prospects and their respective teams, it's really not a nice experience trying to find the scouting player for the player you want. You want to read up on Dumba? Well he plays in the WHL so go to the WHL section. What team does he play on? Oh the Red Deer Rebels... there he is. Luckily, the USHL and European prospects aren't grouped by teams but they aren't sorted by alphabetical order either. You'll really need to go to the index in the front to find your player unless you bought the digital copy and in that case it's a much easier search. Still, it's really a headscratcher. Two other things I would suggest is to 1) move the rankings to the front of the book rather than leave it to the very end, and 2) use E and or NA in the CSB rankings to differentiate between European rankings and NA rankings.

Should You Buy?
Yes! In terms of comprehensiveness and quantity of content, I rank HP first. In terms of quality, well what are you reading the guides for? Accurate scouting reports? If so, I can't tell you until years later because it's all about the ability to predict the future. But reading the Black Book gave me a sense that HP did their homework and saw the players play and it's overall a very enjoyable read and quality product. To me, HP has made by far the largest quality jump of all the draft guides out there. Keep up the good work HP!
 

UnknownEric

Registered User
Jul 7, 2005
103
0
Baltimore, MD
I got the HP Draft Guide again this year, and I think it provides incredible value for your money. A nice printed guide with detailed information on a large number of prospects and it won't break your bank account. Some year when I'm less broke, I may upgrade to the Black Book, which sounds phenomenal.
 

BIG GIFS

Registered User
Apr 29, 2004
3,421
177
Oh I just ****ed up, I tried to download the link for the HP Draft Guide pdf but my Firefox crashed and when I tried again it says that my link is expired. Is there a way to get it back? Thanks.

EDIT: 10 minutes later and I have it.... Thanks Hockeyprospect for the great service!! :)
 
Last edited:

Mark Edwards

@MarkEdwardsHP
Feb 14, 2008
1,061
1,288
Toronto
www.HockeyProspect.com
First, thanks for the kind words and for taking the time to write such a well thought out and lengthy review. I’ll speak a bit about the books and our thinking as we put them together.
Amazon Versions – I’m sure it’s not a surprise to anyone that we make much less on each book sold via amazon than the digital versions. The reasons we continue to offer our books in print are simple. 1) I prefer print myself and I always try to treat customers the way I would want to be treated. Unless something drastically changes, we will continue to offer print versions. That said, please understand that we are at the mercy of amazon a little bit. We submit the title and wait for it to go live. The helpless feeling drives me crazy but there are not many other options. I could have books by the hundreds ‘in stock’ and then ship out print versions from our own online store, but it’s simply not a good option. I sent a Black Book to someone in Vancouver yesterday and the costs are through the roof. Not to mention packing etc... It’s just not a good option for us, because in the case of our books, there is a deadline (the draft) approaching quickly and speed of delivery is key. The Black Book is not light weight or shipping friendly. I also don’t want to spend day after day packing and shipping books.
Digital Versions – When I got an iPad I started to see why we sell so many digital versions. Our books look great on both iPads and on computers via adobe. This year I did my best to make the PDF easier to navigate by linking up the table of contents. We also made a version of the Black Book that fit the iPad screen nicely and was easy to navigate and had some photos.
Quotables: I am glad we included them. I had some fun trying to remember what some NHL scouts had said to me during the season. Next year I will start writing them down early! I also included my own and some from our staff. It was an idea we came up with late – next year we will try to have more quotes from all of our scouts. There were a few that were included in the Draft Guide but not the Black Book, not many though. You are correct, there is very little information in the Draft Guide that is not included in the Black Book.
Prospect Interviews: To methey are more suited to the casual fan, we also were watching page count this year, as it’s a new product. Thus we included them in the guide but not the Black Book. This will probably stay the course next year but things can change.
Strong in the CHL: A valid comment. But honestly, so are most NHL teams. We just don’t have the budget to fly to Europe as much as an NHL teams Director of Scouting does. As for USHL/USA, I made many more trips myself this year and I feel like we made big strides. I have resumes from folks in Europe (I get about 5 -7 resumes each week from around the globe) and we have put people on 3 month trials scouting for us. They just didn’t work out. We are only as good as our scouts. I need to be able to trust the scouts we add, or it’s a useless exercise for both parties. I am extremely happy with our staff right now and I won’t skimp on quality just to add more scouts. In the end, we saw enough of the Euros and USHL kids to feel confident in our reports and rankings. I reached out to a few NHL guys here and there to fill some gaps, but not all that much to be honest.
Brian Hart: It would take a while to explain but suffice to say we scouted and wrote about him (and a few others) who never made the book. In short, it’s a huge task writing and then editing a 380 plus page book in the small time frame we have to do it. Sometimes there are late adds as far as players go etc… In short, they were in a version of the book but somehow got omitted in the final version. My fault.
Book Layout: I played around with a few layouts throughout the year. We ended up going with what you saw. When we get reports in from each scout it was just easier to separate by league. I liked how it tuned out with the exception of a few guys being out of order. Again, without trying to make an excuse, it was the first year of this product and there was a learning curve. We were really fighting the clock and a few minor mistakes were made with player order etc… The book is written for people who generally know what team a player plays on. Your feedback is valid and we will take another look at this next year.
Rankings at Front: Interesting idea – will get serious consideration.
Euro & NA Rankings: Hmmm…I’ll look at it. I figured it was obvious. Sizing comes into play on the page as well.

Your “Should You buyâ€: I really liked what you wrote. All we can do is go to the rinks and give our opinion on what we see. I did a radio interview recently and the co-host said (after I was off air as well) that there was “no way†that Olli Maata lasts until #26. What he and so many others need to realize is that we are not trying to predict where he is going to be drafted. We simply see him as the 26th best player available. People can think we are clueless or agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I can tell you this: I saw London live a ridiculous number of times this year. In London, the scouts share two boxes. There tends to be a little more chatter. I know scouts who love him and others who won’t include him on their list. I also consider Mark Hunter and Misha Donskov friends. I spent many hours talking to them this season after games. They both (Dylan too) RAVE about Olli as a kid and about his work ethic.
My fave part of your review was this – “But reading the Black Book gave me a sense that HP did their homework and saw the players play.†That is our goal. Our scouts saw a ridiculous number of games, especially these past two seasons. We rank the players as we see them. We don’t care who the media or anyone else loves or hates. I tell my guys to trust themselves. If Zemgus Girgensons turns out to be a bust, I promise to come back to these boards and state I was flat out wrong. ;-)
In closing, we will try to keep getting better. We truly appreciate the support and kind word we have seen via email, twitter, boards like this, over the phone and even in person.
I’m leaving for Pittsburgh tomorrow, I might be more limited as far as viewing this thread. If you have any questions, feel free to email me info @ hockeyprospect.com – I’m not a big fan of PM on this board because I find it a pain to respond on my iphone.


I can concur with those who like the Hockey Prospect Black Book. I've been buying up draft guides for a few years and two years ago Hockey Prospect was kind of still a new kid on the block so I didn't buy their draft guide. Last year, I decided to pick up their draft guide just to see what can possibly be in a book over 200 pages that is sold on amazon. :shakehead. I'm glad I did. Could they have done the draft guide in less than 100 pages? I think so, but they wanted to cut into their profit margins by make it into a nicely bounded book with decently-sized text so I'm not going to stop them. You can see sample pages on amazon. The 2012 draft guide appears to be similar in format. The one thing that impressed about their draft guide was the number of prospects covered. I was able to find a short scouting report on prospects that weren't covered by other guides, and even if it was covered by other guides, HP had more to say about the prospect. For obscure or lesser known CHL prospects, Hockey Prospect is the way to go, although they might include a prospect that isn't eligible for this year's draft (last year they included Phil Di Giuseppe). :yo:

The Black Book

Fast-forward to this year, I decided to go with the Black Book even though it costs quite a bit more money than their draft guide, which IMO is a steal given the cost of other draft guides, especially if you get the print version. Anyhow, the Black Book is worth the money IMO. The game reports really add to the scouting reports and are a fascinating read. The "quotables/scout's notes" are also a nice touch. What surprised me about the Black Book is that it's quite different from the draft guide (judging from last year's draft guide and the sample pages on amazon). For some reason, even the player's height and weight seem to be listed different in the Black Book as opposed to the Draft Guide (correct me if I'm wrong). While I suspect the Black Book contains a whole lot more "quotables/scout's notes" than in the Draft Guide, the Draft Guide also seem to contain quotables/scout notes that aren't found in the Black Book (correct me if I'm wrong). Additionally, the Draft Guide contains prospect interviews while the Black Book doesn't. Why the difference? I'm guessing HP is really trying to separate the two products. The Black Book is a lot more like a publication aimed for other scouts and NHL teams while the Draft Guide is aimed at us hockey fans. Still, in my mind, I was hoping that the Black Book has everything the Draft Guide contains, at least in terms of scout notes, but I'm just nitpicking here as the relevant parts of the quotables found in the Draft Guide are in the Black Book, only worded differently. For the most part, the Black Book seems to contain everything that the Draft Guide does with a bit more coverage for some prospects (not to mention game reports) and obviously a lot more coverage of 2013 and 2014 draft-eligible prospects.

Overall Impression

Overall, I'm very impressed with the Black Book. I think Hockey Prospect has really put in a lot of work in improving it's product. It's certainly becoming a more polished publication. Content-wise, the Black Book is very competitive with the best draft guides out there. One complaint, and it's understandable, is that HP is much stronger in its CHL scouting than USHL and Europe. Obviously, HP can only write on who they have seen, but it does leave to curious circumstances. For example, the Black Book has nothing on Brian Hart, ranked 95 by HP, and 54 by CSB, but the Black Book has something on Colby Drost, ranked 196 by HP and NR by CSB. This is a serious oversight, and I expect that as resources allow, HP will add to their team of scouts. I know that two years ago, I didn't buy the HP guide because someone wrote that there was a top prospect that was left out of the guide.

Another thing I didn't like is that the Black Book arranged the prospects according to the alphabetical order of team names separated by leagues from the OHL to the WHL to the QMJHL and so on. Why OHL first and then WHL and then QMJHL? No idea except for Ontario bias. :nod: In regards to grouping prospects by teams, again this could be that HP wanted the Black Book to be for scouts and NHL teams rather than us fans, but unless you know the prospects and their respective teams, it's really not a nice experience trying to find the scouting player for the player you want. You want to read up on Dumba? Well he plays in the WHL so go to the WHL section. What team does he play on? Oh the Red Deer Rebels... there he is. Luckily, the USHL and European prospects aren't grouped by teams but they aren't sorted by alphabetical order either. You'll really need to go to the index in the front to find your player unless you bought the digital copy and in that case it's a much easier search. Still, it's really a headscratcher. Two other things I would suggest is to 1) move the rankings to the front of the book rather than leave it to the very end, and 2) use E and or NA in the CSB rankings to differentiate between European rankings and NA rankings.

Should You Buy?
Yes! In terms of comprehensiveness and quantity of content, I rank HP first. In terms of quality, well what are you reading the guides for? Accurate scouting reports? If so, I can't tell you until years later because it's all about the ability to predict the future. But reading the Black Book gave me a sense that HP did their homework and saw the players play and it's overall a very enjoyable read and quality product. To me, HP has made by far the largest quality jump of all the draft guides out there. Keep up the good work HP!
 

UpsideHockey

Registered User
Jan 6, 2004
2,582
137
Calgary, Canada
bit.ly
I got the HP Draft Guide again this year, and I think it provides incredible value for your money. A nice printed guide with detailed information on a large number of prospects and it won't break your bank account. Some year when I'm less broke, I may upgrade to the Black Book, which sounds phenomenal.

Hockey Prospect= the Bible

Incredible knowledge.....live scouting by people that know the game.

Very well done & worth every penny.

Was about to post my own review, but UnknownEric & leoleo3535 sum up my thoughts.

Fantastic product. And yes...HP Black Book well worth it; extremely comprehensive!

F A N provided some great insight as well.
 

Aaron Vickers

FCHockey
Mar 4, 2002
6,431
188
Calgary, AB
www.nhlentrydraft.com
Just wanted to thank everyone who picked up FC's 2012 Draft Guide in advance of Friday's big day. Your help and contributions made it our most successful release to date and we hope to help carry that momentum over into the 2013 draft!

Thanks again!
 

ChibiPooky

Yay hockey!
May 25, 2011
11,486
2
Fairfax, VA
Have to say after reading this thread from start to finish that I'm very impressed with the FC and HP staff professionalism and commitment to both service and scouting. This, combined with the absolutely glowing reviews of their products, has convinced me that I need to make some purchases when I get home. And I'm not even a draftnik... :scared:
 

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