Prospect Info: 2012-2013 Hartford Wolf Pack/Greenville Road Warriors Thread (AHL, ECHL) *Part III*

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You did nail it DG.

If I'm 'coming around' cause the kid actually has shown me something this year. Since he was drafted he's given me little to go on, now we see him playing a solid defensive game(most nights) in the A, thats a big deal, bigger than beating up on WHL midgets.



This is the problem.

My fear is that the only reason he was picked #10 in that draft was exactly because of that incident. I know, I know, that seems so unbelievable right?



I think theres a few reasons we have not seen someone like DM in our organization for awhile. One, there's not enough players like this in all of hockey much less in every draft. And if they are available they are usually hard to get or expensive FA's. Secondly, most teams that have a player that deters others from taking 'liberties' have forwards who do that, not Dmen that are counted on to play top 4 minutes.

I played hockey, have watched hockey for a long time. I don't think a single player stops any team from doing what they want. Now a collectively tough team, thats when you see other teams not want to pull punches.

Have you watched him I just got the chance to look and you didn't actually say yes you seemed to imply that you hadn't. Actually everything you said up until "He's shown me something this year" indicated you hadn't seen him at all this year. I was trying to figure out what your take was. You seemed to be saying Beacon was way too forthcoming with praise and then you seemed to be saying the same about nyr2k but you have yet to say a singleword of analysis about him. It'd certainly be much more fair and fun if you countered beacon's assessent of the game that you questioned him on by giving your own analysis y'know? The other guy passive aggressively called you biased as hell too which I've kinda gathered lol.

AAaaaaaanyway my initial thought was about Beacon "Wow this is great news I wonder if everyone agrees on this?"

Then you go "You're too excited Beacon" and I'm thinking oh goodie here's some more info but then....nothing...I was dissappointed yet relieved b/c it means hopefully there is no reason for you to contradict the glowing reviews. Question their validity and the sample size yes (as I did) but not contradict them

PS I'm worried I'm riding your a** but hopefully I explained why I was questioning your skepticism. I want answers dammit!

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Do you remember when for over half a year leading up to his signing, I was obsessively arguing against it, saying that we aren't ready to contend in 2011-12 and he'll be an albatross on the team long term? I was told that I'm not a psychic and that I shouldn't be predicting that around the age of 33 (when players generally start to get worse), he'll no longer be worth the money?

I was told that we need to go for it now because Lundqvist is getting older. Well, he's still getting older, still without the Cup.

Had we not signed Brad, we could've outbid for Parise and Suter.

Parise - Stepan - Gabby
Hagelin - Anisimov - Callahan
Kreider - Miller - Pyatt
Asham - Powe - Boyle

Staal - Suter
McDonagh - Girardi
MDZ - Stralman

Even if we didn't sign Suter and Parise, going with Nash instead, we would have more than enough cap space to sign or acquire a younger center.

The good news is that we can buy him out this or next summer. I'd probably keep him one more year, then send him packing.

Had I been around I would have agreed with you. I hadn't watched Brad much though and everything I read indicated he would transcend age based on his playmaking and intelligence since his game wasn't based on physical attributes. Unfortunately he seems to have a brain degenerating illness or someting. It seemed painfully obvious to me though we would have a useless ass 34 year old 6.6 million dollar cap hit with 4 years to go...I pray to be wrong

 

[Pizza]

Parise publicly stated that he had never considered the Rangers as a destination. I know that's been said before.

 

[Zil]

Of those:
C: 4 (5 if you count Lindberg)
RW: 2
LW: 1
LD: 1
RD: 1
G: 1

That's a lot of c's. Those assets must be burning a hole in Sather's pocket.

Yeah, but it's not that simple. St. Croix is probably a wing if he makes it to the NHL. Miller might be a center or he might be a wing. Jean is a longshot at best. I'm really high on Nieves, but he is very raw. Lindberg is playing at a high level, but he's likely a third line checking center if he makes it. We have a lot of center prospects, but no sure things. We've basically got a lot of lottery tickets.

 

[BBKers]

WOW talk about depleted team up front

Hartford really needs some healthy bodies

Healthy

1. Carroll
2. Haley
3. Jean
4. Newbury
5. Palmieri
6. Pelech
7. Segal
8. Tessier
9. Yogan
10. Pyett (actually defenseman)

Injured
Bourque
Ferriero
Hrivik
Wilson
Wiebe

NYR
Thomas
Mashinter
Miller
Kreider

 

[Beacon]

Hartford really needs some healthy bodies

Healthy

1. Carroll
2. Haley
3. Jean
4. Newbury
5. Palmieri
6. Pelech
7. Segal
8. Tessier
9. Yogan
10. Pyett (actually defenseman)

I don't understand why they play with 17 men instead of calling up someone from the ECHL. Just giving them a PTO or something.

Plus, if they move Pyett back to D, they can bench Collins.

 

[bmoak]

The RoadWarriors don't have much to offer right now. They only dressed fourteen skaters in their loss last night, and their starting forward line of Lee, Higgins, and Ziegler were all playing in the SPHL two weeks ago. Wong, Vallerand, Gouchie, Marcou, Cohen, and Piche are all out with injuries, and that list includes the most likely callups. Cameron, McArdle, Lieuwen, and Verrault-Paul were all poached by other AHL teams. Danny Hobbs or Jordie Johnston would be the only options for a call-up.

 

[colman]

The RoadWarriors don't have much to offer right now. They only dressed fourteen skaters in their loss last night, and their starting forward line of Lee, Higgins, and Ziegler were all playing in the SPHL two weeks ago. Wong, Vallerand, Gouchie, Marcou, Cohen, and Piche are all out with injuries, and that list includes the most likely callups. Cameron, McArdle, Lieuwen, and Verrault-Paul were all poached by other AHL teams. Danny Hobbs or Jordie Johnston would be the only options for a call-up.

Is Marcou still with San Antoinio. If he can play there why not Hartford

 

[bmoak]

San Antonio, a worse team than Hartford, released Marcou after two games. Besides, the Whale needs forwards, not D.

 

[colman]

San Antonio, a worse team than Hartford, released Marcou after two games. Besides, the Whale needs forwards, not D.

Yeah Much worse same record almost looks like he had 2 good games contract injuries figure into these call ups .Hartford D rock solid come on .

 

[Ola]

I went back and saw HFD vs the Monarchs. Was some time ago since I saw a HFD game, so here is a little update on some of my thoughts.

Christian Thomas is by far the best NHL caliber player down there. There are some decent players like Newbury, Segal and Vernance, but their game would just become very very bleak at the NHL level. Thomas has developed really well during the season down there and could possibly suprise alot of people if he gets a good chance now in the NHL.

He has always been quite good 2-ways, but is a bit too small to live on that ability. But he thinks the offensive game at a high level and can executes plays really fast.

I like him more than Ferriero and hopefully he will stick right away. His big downside is that he is more of a RW and we got a logjam there and that he won't help our PP as much as he would do if he was a left shot.

Dylan McIlrath did a OK job. He plays a minor role on a 3rd pairing in HFD and of course you would like to see more, but what you take away from his game is definitely that he moves pretty well and try's to make a first pass and so forth. He is a bit puppy like on defense.

It will take some time before he will start to challenge for a spot in NY. He especially needs to get ready for a bigger role in the AHL and then gain some expereince in that role.

I am not overly pessimistic about him, but there is alot to his game that really needs to improve I am afraid.

Nick "Chazz" Palmieri isn't a new experience, but I am a bit negativly suprised by him. Not much hockey in him.

Brandon Mashinter is kind of in the same mold as Palmieri. The innter compass isn't quite there. Not a very good hockey player, but he isn't overly effective either.

If anything, I actually like Michael Haley more than both Mashinter and Palmieri.

There's been alot of talk about goalies and D's in HFD, and I've certainly seen better. But its not a very good coached team and I would worry alot more about that and the stupid forwards than the avg D's... There is a abnorm amount of players down there who just don't think the game very well at all. Maybe the guy (who ever that is) who picks them don't either, what do I know. Jean is another guy in that mold. We can't find more relevant players than that??? Yogan is atleast a hockey player.

 

[Dorado*]

I went back and saw HFD vs the Monarchs. Was some time ago since I saw a HFD game, so here is a little update on some of my thoughts.

Christian Thomas is by far the best NHL caliber player down there. There are some decent players like Newbury, Segal and Vernance, but their game would just become very very bleak at the NHL level. Thomas has developed really well during the season down there and could possibly suprise alot of people if he gets a good chance now in the NHL.

He has always been quite good 2-ways, but is a bit too small to live on that ability. But he thinks the offensive game at a high level and can executes plays really fast.

I like him more than Ferriero and hopefully he will stick right away. His big downside is that he is more of a RW and we got a logjam there and that he won't help our PP as much as he would do if he was a left shot.

Dylan McIlrath did a OK job. He plays a minor role on a 3rd pairing in HFD and of course you would like to see more, but what you take away from his game is definitely that he moves pretty well and try's to make a first pass and so forth. He is a bit puppy like on defense.

It will take some time before he will start to challenge for a spot in NY. He especially needs to get ready for a bigger role in the AHL and then gain some expereince in that role.

I am not overly pessimistic about him, but there is alot to his game that really needs to improve I am afraid.

Nick "Chazz" Palmieri isn't a new experience, but I am a bit negativly suprised by him. Not much hockey in him.

Brandon Mashinter is kind of in the same mold as Palmieri. The innter compass isn't quite there. Not a very good hockey player, but he isn't overly effective either.

If anything, I actually like Michael Haley more than both Mashinter and Palmieri.

There's been alot of talk about goalies and D's in HFD, and I've certainly seen better. But its not a very good coached team and I would worry alot more about that and the stupid forwards than the avg D's... There is a abnorm amount of players down there who just don't think the game very well at all. Maybe the guy (who ever that is) who picks them don't either, what do I know. Jean is another guy in that mold. We can't find more relevant players than that??? Yogan is atleast a hockey player.

Vastly different take on Dmac then Beacon

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Vastly different take on Dmac then Beacon

Yup thats what I was looking for. Was he in the 3rd pair for the games in which beacon gave him such praise as well?

 

[Ola]

Yup thats what I was looking for. Was he in the 3rd pair for the games in which beacon gave him such praise as well?

I think Beacon has really praised him after a few games, but over the course of the whole season I think that the "avg report" has been steady but nothing great. What I saw was kind of what I expected after reading Beacons reports all season.

In the game I saw, Emminger played and he was clearly the best D on the ice and logged a ton of time and carried the play, it does kind of become more apparent that McI needs some time.

Like I said, I am no overly pessimistic on McI. Definitely not. But overall he is still just not NHL level. It's possible that he in a half short time frame could be ready to step in to a 6 D role -- but I definitely think you hurt his development if he is brought up to the NHL before he has played well as a 3-4 in the AHL.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yup thats what I was looking for. Was he in the 3rd pair for the games in which beacon gave him such praise as well?

Beacon made it sound like he was a top pairing guy. I don't mean because he praised him so much, but because I thought he flat out stated that he was a top pairing guy. While Ola isn't ALWAYS negative (see: Christian Thomas in that post), he seems to be more negative than positive usually. Beacon seems to be the other way around. I want to see Beacon's response. For now that was quite a depressing read. How can 2 people have such a different opinion on one guy?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think Beacon has really praised him after a few games, but over the course of the whole season I think that the "avg report" has been steady but nothing great. What I saw was kind of what I expected after reading Beacons reports all season.

In the game I saw, Emminger played and he was clearly the best D on the ice and logged a ton of time and carried the play, it does kind of become more apparent that McI needs some time.

Like I said, I am no overly pessimistic on McI. Definitely not. But overall he is still just not NHL level. It's possible that he in a half short time frame could be ready to step in to a 6 D role -- but I definitely think you hurt his development if he is brought up to the NHL before he has played well as a 3-4 in the AHL.

But a) You said McI was a 3rd pairing D-man, Beacon made it sound like he wasn't. That's not really a matter of opinion. So which is it? b) Isn't it relevant how a young prospect is doing in recent games? Young prospects improve over courses of seasons. If the most recent stretch of games didn't matter than Thomas who you praised has been mediocre.

 

[Matt4776]

Seeing Eller and Patches taking liberties on our players wants me to see McIlrath with the big team. Real soon.

 

[Joey Bones]

Seeing Eller and Patches taking liberties on our players wants me to see McIlrath with the big team. Real soon.

Agreed

 

[Beacon]

Watching the game just now because I wasnt home.

An early PP went nowhere. The defensemen (Palett and Vernace) were fine, but the forwards did nothing useful.

Noob just gave away the puck with a no-look pass from the boards down the middle in his own zone. McIlrath should beat him up and justify it as a defense of Talbot. Ifa midget league player did that, his coach would get mad. How a veteran pro does it is beyond me.

Klassen is a very smart defensive player.

Mcilrath shot from the point with a small wind up. His shot isnt terrible, but nothing special.

One on one defense by McIlrath: allowed the forward to move past him, though forcing him to the side. Caught up and slammed him into the boards. The forward still was able to make his pass. Not bad, not good by McIlrath.

(5 minutes later) Good footwork by McIlrath behind the net to defend we.

Really hard to follow the gabr because half the team is different and I dont know their numbers by heart.

First period over.

 

[Beacon]

Second period

Penalty for interference on Noob.

Pens outshooting the Whale 15-5 about 5 minutes into the period. Thats despite the Pens shooting wide a lot. The Whale is totally dominated.

Yogan playing well. Works really hard. Reminds me of Cally when it comes to hard work.

Carroll easily beat the opposing goalie, putting him on the ice, only to miss the net.

The Whale look like they are on a permanent penalty kill.

McIlrath isnt bad, just isnt good. He covers his guys well, but keeps failing to take the puck away.

Talbot playing well. Great blocker (right hand). But he did allow two goal posts.

Devoid period over. The Whale is lucky it is still 0-0. The Whale didnt play yesterday, while
the Pens did, so hopefully they can pick it up in the third.

The Whale was outshot 23-13 through two.

 

[Beacon]

Third period

Staal takes a delay penalty for falling on the puck. Kolarik scores from a few feet out. He got a pass from the left of the net to the right. Nobody covered him, not even close to him. Nothing Talbot could do.

The Whale got a PP. and now a 4-minute penalty on the Pens for high sticking witg blood. A 5-on-3 for almost 1:30, followed by another PP.

Noob with a good pass to Segal who scored. Pyett with the other assist.

The Pens announcer whines more about reffing than Cindy. Maybe it runs in the organization.

Talbot stopped a shorthanded breakaway.

Pens forwards are skating around Whale defensemen like they are cones. Terrible, just awful.

Niemi isnt as terrible as advertized. Good speed and hustle, can be a functioning AHL third pair guy. Like him more than Collins.

Segal with a nice pass to Haley who shot it into the chest.

The P#ns goalie is very good.

Kenny G takes a TO with about a minute to go.

Pens take a penalty.

Third over.

The Pens won with under a minute to go in the OT on a shot from the point. Talbot was screened.

 

[Beacon]

McIlrath was never on the third pair. That is plain wrong. He doesn't play with scrubs like Niemi and Collins. He played with Parlett when he was hot and with Vernace when he started to do well. When the team needs a pure shut down pair, they use him with Klassen.

He is also on the first team PK unit.

You can argue whether his pairing is first or second, but never third. That is just inaccurate.

 

[Beacon]

with the way the Rangers select goalies besides Lundqvist, any chance the Rangers make a trade with a team that has depth with quality goaltending prospects that has potential??

Talbot is a solid prospect. We cant afford to trade for a blue chipper when we are going for the Cup. But given the improvement by Talbot, Miss and Stajcer this year, our goalie prospect department isnt terrible.

 

[Ola]

McIlrath was never on the third pair. That is plain wrong. He doesn't play with scrubs like Niemi and Collins. He played with Parlett when he was hot and with Vernace when he started to do well. When the team needs a pure shut down pair, they use him with Klassen.

He is also on the first team PK unit.

You can argue whether his pairing is first or second, but never third. That is just inaccurate.

Beacon, he was on the 3rd pairing against the Monarchs. (I thought my memory might have failed me, so I even went back and checked)

Pairings:
Emminger-Collins (played regulary with Mashinter-Newbury-Palmieri)
Klassen-Parlett (played regulary with Haley-Tessier-Thomas)
Vernance-McI (played regulary with Segal (?)-Yogan-Jean)

Maybe the balance between the pairings was shifted for the games when Emminger was down there (and Verance was moved back while Gernander stayed with Parlett with Haley-Tessier-Thomas), but he was clearly on the 3rd pairing in that game. On paper and in ice time. He can't have played many seconds more than 14 minutes in that game. Since I've not seen much of the team down there in a while, I really zoomed in on McI, Thomas, Mashinter and Palmieri, and in the second period -- McI barely played at all. He had a fight after 4 minutes. And right when McI got out of the box, Con had a PP at about the 12 minute mark.

Emminger-Collins also started just about every PK as far as I remember. And he didn't see a second on the PP. He saw some PK time, but definitely not that much.

Its great to hear that he has played more in other games though!

 

[Osminator]

If there is any justice in the world, Sam Klassen gets an NHL contract for this year and a call-up... By far the best defensive d-man with a good first pass.