2010 NHL Draft Top100

[Brun0]

Though this isn't the Granlund vs Hall thread, what do you think GMs or scouts would value more come draft day: 100+ points in the top team of CHL or point-per-game in a men's pro league? 120-150 points in the CHL vs 58 points in SM-liiga?

Thats a good question and im afraid that they are valuing the chl more even though it's reddiccilous. The finnish league is still not well enough scouted and they really underestimate the finnish league eg. compaired to the Swedish league. Also I hate the arrogance of the NA scouts towards finns. They are allways just finding weeknesses of the finnish players even though their play well on they streghts. I also dont get why the na just want to try to take the big physical forwards from sm-league that dont have any hands and vision what so ever. The north americans are really treating us bad and I think its good that KHL's level is incrasing where the players get payd properly and dont get treated the AHL farm team ****.

thanks, now i cleared my mind!

 

[Brun0]

Prbably Hall only because of the North American bias. Although a good scout would judge a player based on play rather then points I would hope.

If Granlund was an inch or two taller, I think he would possibly be a top 3 pick from what I have seen, heard and read...

Is there aything concrete on his size? He's been listed as small as 5'8 and as big as 5'10. Anyone know for sure at this point? We will all find out at the NHL combine though...

He is listed 178 cm but im sure he is as tall as Hall. U know the north americans add always a bit to the lenght so that shouldn't the issue. In Finland we dont do that. So granlund is really the same size as crosby I think? So the size shouldnt be an issue or is there a european thing that u have to be over 6 foot but a super talented NA kid can be under it?

 

[DJB]

I'm certainly intruiged by Granlund's ppg in the mens finish league. Quite impressive.

 

[DJB]

He is listed 178 cm but im sure he is as tall as Hall. U know the north americans add always a bit to the lenght so that shouldn't the issue. In Finland we dont do that. So granlund is really the same size as crosby I think? So the size shouldnt be an issue or is there a european thing that u have to be over 6 foot but a super talented NA kid can be under it?

Crosby is listed as 5'11 so roughly 180 cm. Hall is currently listed as 6'0 or roughly 183 cm, but I', not sure that I beleive that. He looks slightly shorter although that may be beacuse of his stance when he skates which is somewhat hunched over...

 

[Jussi]

Crosby is listed as 5'11 so roughly 180 cm. Hall is currently listed as 6'0 or roughly 183 cm, but I', not sure that I beleive that. He looks slightly shorter although that may be beacuse of his stance when he skates which is somewhat hunched over...

Toni Rajala also seems shorter than he is because of his skating stance. Wild guess, Granlund is 177 cm, he's listed at 178 cm and in photos and a story by Finnish tv (youtube version has been linked here before), he didn't look to be a lot shorter than Pulkkinen who's listed at 180 cm.

 

[pouskin74*]

Vladimir Tarasenko (KHL) with 2 assist tonight. that makes 9 points in 16 games so far.

 

[Czechexpert]

Toni Rajala also seems shorter than he is because of his skating stance. Wild guess, Granlund is 177 cm, he's listed at 178 cm and in photos and a story by Finnish tv (youtube version has been linked here before), he didn't look to be a lot shorter than Pulkkinen who's listed at 180 cm.

However IMO Pulkkinen isn´t 180 cm.

 

[Jussi]

However IMO Pulkkinen isn´t 180 cm.

Until you get a measuring tape and go measure him, you'll have to do with the height that's listed at pretty much every Finnish source.

 

[Czechexpert]

Until you get a measuring tape and go measure him, you'll have to do with the height that's listed at pretty much every Finnish source.

I know we argued here regarding his height in the past but I can´t help he isn´t that tall. I think we will learn it after draft combine.

 

[Jussi]

I know we argued here regarding his height in the past but I can´t help he isn´t that tall. I think we will learn it after draft combine.

He's listed 180/80 on the Finnish hockey federation's site and you can't get much more reliable than that. Their stats might be outdated in some cases but they never exaggerate measurements. As I've said before, in last year's Jokerit team picture in Finnish hockey mag Jääkiekkolehti he was standing right next to Tomek Valtonen who is listed 185 cm and Pulkkinen looked like was about that 5 cm shorter than Valtonen. I'm thinking Pulkkinen might also play in very low stance which might make him seem smaller than he is? Not to mention that Team Finland U-20 is really small compared to the other teams which just enhances the size difference.

 

[pouskin74*]

is that so important? 180cm or 179 or 178? dont see the point here.

 

[Jussi]

is that so important? 180cm or 179 or 178? dont see the point here.

Well he seems to imply that Pulkkinen is much shorter.

 

[i love staal]

Just saw the US 18 team play colgate today...

just wanted to say some thoughts and see what people thought on the 2010 eligible players (the 2011 players were impressive but i cannot include them for this list)

Jack campbell is a stellar goaltender. That is honestly all i can say.

Stephen Jons...moves well and is physical but he made some really crazy decisions with the puck. other than that very good prospect and could go in the top 2 rounds.

Jon Merrill...just a solid player with a great upside.

derek fobort...did not impress me but moves the puck well and skates nicely.

Tinordi...is huge and is a physically punishing defender wiht great leadership. I really like him to be in the first round.

Moffatt...loved his creativity but looked like he was not trying at times. Took a couple of huge hits. I don't think he is a top round pick but could be a top 3 rounder.

Arnold...Very good player and so quick. Great at faceoffs I thought.

Zucker...Best player on NTDP...strong and absolutely incredible agility. Top rounder even though he is small.

This blue line is enormous and all skate well. I think that the offense has some nice potential for the draft.

 

[Rally Donkey]

Ntdp

Just saw the US 18 team play colgate today...

just wanted to say some thoughts and see what people thought on the 2010 eligible players (the 2011 players were impressive but i cannot include them for this list)

Jack campbell is a stellar goaltender. That is honestly all i can say.

Stephen Jons...moves well and is physical but he made some really crazy decisions with the puck. other than that very good prospect and could go in the top 2 rounds.

Jon Merrill...just a solid player with a great upside.

derek fobort...did not impress me but moves the puck well and skates nicely.

Tinordi...is huge and is a physically punishing defender wiht great leadership. I really like him to be in the first round.

Moffatt...loved his creativity but looked like he was not trying at times. Took a couple of huge hits. I don't think he is a top round pick but could be a top 3 rounder.

Arnold...Very good player and so quick. Great at faceoffs I thought.

Zucker...Best player on NTDP...strong and absolutely incredible agility. Top rounder even though he is small.

This blue line is enormous and all skate well. I think that the offense has some nice potential for the draft.

I would never count Moffatt out. I wonder about some of the NTDP squad. Their production & w/l record has been too hot since the schedule went into effect, but I attribute this more to coaching than to individual players. Based on how they've done I can't see them as a team holding a candle to very many major junior teams, however, individually they have some standouts and some deep talent that is not shining in the current system. If Moffatt doesn't break out this year, he will as a Wolverine. He's got vision and hockey IQ that can't be taught and stickhandling and shooting that will astound in the right environment. I wouldn't count any of them out, but as of this moment I agree with your other observations. Tinoridi may be the only blue liner worthy of 3rd round or higher considering the rest of the draft-eligible defensemen in Europe, CHL, etc.

 

[TheBakester66]

Thats a good question and im afraid that they are valuing the chl more even though it's reddiccilous. The finnish league is still not well enough scouted and they really underestimate the finnish league eg. compaired to the Swedish league. Also I hate the arrogance of the NA scouts towards finns. They are allways just finding weeknesses of the finnish players even though their play well on they streghts. I also dont get why the na just want to try to take the big physical forwards from sm-league that dont have any hands and vision what so ever. The north americans are really treating us bad and I think its good that KHL's level is incrasing where the players get payd properly and dont get treated the AHL farm team ****.

thanks, now i cleared my mind!

The situation you are describing with NA scouts did not happen by accident. The fact is that there have always been better and more offensive talents coming out of sweden, and because there is better talent, there have always been more scouts to see that talent in sweden then in finland. There really have not been that many great offensive threats from finland over the past 10 years, and those that have been strong talents have all gone fairly early in their draft class (Pitkanen, Koivu, Ruutu, etc.)

I do agree with you on some of the odd choices on players who were good athletes who had never proven that they had natural ability. Lauri Tukonen and Lauri Korpikoski come to mind.

It is nice to see the KHL filling a niche for players who might be borderline for an NHL job.

 

[krazy kanuck]

Hello,

I'm not familiar with all of these guys, but it looks like most people feel that the OHL will lead the pack again this year. I didn't realize Burmistrov was as highly touted as he appears to be when the Colts swung the deal to draft him. He really is something special though and I'd love to see him crack the top 10 (top 5?)... The way he's playing, he may be able to get himself up to McFarland territory.

Of the others, I can only recall seeing Hall, Seguin, McFarland, Granlund and Hishon play in person. I'd put them in that order. I'm looking forward to seeing Fowler when he makes his first trip up to Barrie this winter. Also, I J.P. Anderson could get late first early second round attention, depending on how much he plays.

Best,
Shawn

 

[krazy kanuck]

He is listed 178 cm but im sure he is as tall as Hall.

Hello,

I'm sorry, I'm sure he's not - or at least I'm sure he wasn't last December. When Granlund was here in Barrie for a World Junior tune up last December he looked like one of the smaller guys on the ice. Hall on the other hand is at least the 6' 1" he's listed at.

Best,
Shawn

 

[krazy kanuck]

He is listed 178 cm but im sure he is as tall as Hall. U know the north americans add always a bit to the lenght so that shouldn't the issue. In Finland we dont do that. So granlund is really the same size as crosby I think? So the size shouldnt be an issue or is there a european thing that u have to be over 6 foot but a super talented NA kid can be under it?

Hello,

No, it applies to North American kids too...unfortunately. Justin Azevedo led the OHL in scoring three years ago with 124 points and was the CHL player of the year but at 5' 7" - 5' 8" went in the 6th round of the NHL draft (after not being drafted in his first eligible year, if I remember correctly).

Best,
Shawn

 

[HOCKEYMAN321]

OP, just curious as to why Kabanov is #1 on the list over Hall.

I haven't been fortunate enough to have seen Kabanov play and have never been able to dig up any stats on the guy - so I'm having a hard time figuring out how he dethrones the OHL's current leading scorer.

Also, I'm no genius on US players but can provide some non-NTDP players later on. There are lots of guys around who can probably fill that role better than I though.

kabanov is a top 3 pick possibly number 1 he is a great forward with a good shot and great puck handling and control. His problem is that he is pretty small and skinny if he gets taller and gets some pounds on he will be just right. Also he has a wrist injury he got in a game with the Moncton Wildcats so he will be out for 10 to 12 weeks

 

[thomast]

kabanov is a top 3 pick possibly number 1 he is a great forward with a good shot and great puck handling and control. His problem is that he is pretty small and skinny if he gets taller and gets some pounds on he will be just right. Also he has a wrist injury he got in a game with the Moncton Wildcats so he will be out for 10 to 12 weeks

6'3 is small lol? he is skinny tho only 176lbs for 6'3

 

[AmericanDream]

I would never count Moffatt out. I wonder about some of the NTDP squad. Their production & w/l record has been too hot since the schedule went into effect, but I attribute this more to coaching than to individual players. Based on how they've done I can't see them as a team holding a candle to very many major junior teams, however, individually they have some standouts and some deep talent that is not shining in the current system. If Moffatt doesn't break out this year, he will as a Wolverine. He's got vision and hockey IQ that can't be taught and stickhandling and shooting that will astound in the right environment. I wouldn't count any of them out, but as of this moment I agree with your other observations. Tinoridi may be the only blue liner worthy of 3rd round or higher considering the rest of the draft-eligible defensemen in Europe, CHL, etc.

ummm I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. Merrill, Forbort, Faulk, Tinordi, and Johns all could be first round picks. Infact, Merrill and Forbort are battling for top 10 rankings right now. Faulk has come into the top 30, and Johns and Tinordi are on most peoples top 30 list. You can add Kevin Clare to this list also, as he goes in the top 50 too. This is the most impressive group of dmen that the US has ever produced in a single draft. You add Fowler and Mattson who both were on this team last year, and that is an amazing group of kids.

As forwards go, they are pretty deep also. I think right now, Zucker is the best of the bunch, and is getting ranked in the first round. You also have Arnold and Moffatt that both have a shot at the top 30. Kevin Hayes has been added at times to the squad, and he is a top 50 pick. Chase Balisy and Shane Sooth may not be as good as once was thought, but both of these kids are showing signs of life again. Saad and Nieto arent eligibe until 2011, and Saad is a top 5 pick right now, and Nieto is a top 20 pick right now.

Overall, this is a pretty deep group of kids coming out of the USNTDP, and add Jack Campbell to the group and we could see a minimum of five of these kids going in the first round. That is very impressive.

Next years group will not be as nearly deep, but it will have some top talent (Saad, Nieto, Priviteria, Russo, Cleandering, Mersch, Grimaldi, Miller, etc).

 

[pouskin74*]

kabanov is a top 3 pick possibly number 1 he is a great forward with a good shot and great puck handling and control. His problem is that he is pretty small and skinny if he gets taller and gets some pounds on he will be just right. Also he has a wrist injury he got in a game with the Moncton Wildcats so he will be out for 10 to 12 weeks

i wouldnt call a guy with his 6.3 as a small

 

[Rally Donkey]

ummm I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. Merrill, Forbort, Faulk, Tinordi, and Johns all could be first round picks. Infact, Merrill and Forbort are battling for top 10 rankings right now. Faulk has come into the top 30, and Johns and Tinordi are on most peoples top 30 list. You can add Kevin Clare to this list also, as he goes in the top 50 too. This is the most impressive group of dmen that the US has ever produced in a single draft. You add Fowler and Mattson who both were on this team last year, and that is an amazing group of kids.

As forwards go, they are pretty deep also. I think right now, Zucker is the best of the bunch, and is getting ranked in the first round. You also have Arnold and Moffatt that both have a shot at the top 30. Kevin Hayes has been added at times to the squad, and he is a top 50 pick...

I agree it's a deep group this year and as I said there are individuals with tremendous upside, but right now very few of the defensemen have been tested and proven on the level of their upper end OHL peers. Every one of those you mentioned will feel some love in June. As for which round they'll get the news depends on the rest of the season. Aside from the honor of the first round, does it really matter where you go between 2 & 7? Is there a financial difference from each round to the next?

 

[southsidehockey]

I agree it's a deep group this year and as I said there are individuals with tremendous upside, but right now very few of the defensemen have been tested and proven on the level of their upper end OHL peers. Every one of those you mentioned will feel some love in June.

I don't want to turn this into a college hockey-major junior debate, but being a 17-year-old kid playing against some schools that have 24 year old men on their rosters and having success is a tough test. I think that proves they have every bit as much as their upper end OHL peers.

Additionally, Campbell, Merrill and Zucker all proved it at the World U18s last year against some of their CHL peers and a stacked Russian team. They were all solid contributors on a team full of high-end 91s like Morin and Brown.

This is certainly a deep team and this could be a HUGE draft for the national program.

 

[Rally Donkey]

I don't want to turn this into a college hockey-major junior debate, but being a 17-year-old kid playing against some schools that have 24 year old men on their rosters and having success is a tough test. I think that proves they have every bit as much as their upper end OHL peers...

24 year-olds at Bowdoin, Colby, Williams, Union colleges where the U-18's had success aren't quite on the same par as Hockey East or the WCHA. Aside from a good win against Cornell, they haven't exactly dominated the likes of Michigan or Boston. It'll be interesting to see how they fare against stronger NCAA teams like MSU, Wisconsin & Maine in January. It doesn't look like they will get tested against a DU or CC, so I still feel like although they have some talented players who have huge upside and could adjust over time to the higher level of play in not just Major-Junior, but the OHL in particular, as of this point in the season they're not yet on par. Admittedly, the 3rd-7th rounders aren't being drafted so much on what they can do now, but on what they can be developed into over a few more years. The first-rounders, though- aren't there higher expectations for them to made a faster impact? I can see a few already like as you mentioned Zucker, Moffatt, & Merrill whose upside is pretty much indisputable, but if the season ended right now, the others you pointed out would be scatterred through rounds 2-4 imo. Let's see how they do in the 2nd half of the season. Anything is possible with that kind of talent.