2010 Hall of Fame Class

[seventieslord]

For 2009, Yzerman, Leetch, and Hull should be shoo-ins. It sounds like a foregone conclusion that Robitailly will be the 4th player but I think Gilmour, Oates, and Bure are all better candidates.

Let's assume Robitaille gets in, though. In 2010, here are the serious candidates:

Bondra, Nieuwendyk, Turgeon, Lindros (first timers)
Andreychuk, Mogilny (second timers)
Gilmour, Oates, Bure, Ciccarelli (waiting a while)

the Hall already screwed up by not inducting four playrs this year. now there is a logjam that will take ages to clear up.

Personally I would start by righting the wrongs and inducting Gilmour, oates, and Bure, and the best left is probably Nieuwendyk (taking the "illustriousness" of his career into account). One more season where 4 more get inducted would likely clear things up. Those also happen to be who I feel are the four strongest candidates, with Lindros a very close 5th.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

For 2009, Yzerman, Leetch, and Hull should be shoo-ins. It sounds like a foregone conclusion that Robitailly will be the 4th player but I think Gilmour, Oates, and Bure are all better candidates.

Let's assume Robitaille gets in, though. In 2010, here are the serious candidates:

Bondra, Nieuwendyk, Turgeon, Lindros (first timers)
Andreychuk, Mogilny (second timers)
Gilmour, Oates, Bure, Ciccarelli (waiting a while)

the Hall already screwed up by not inducting four playrs this year. now there is a logjam that will take ages to clear up.

Personally I would start by righting the wrongs and inducting Gilmour, oates, and Bure, and the best left is probably Nieuwendyk (taking the "illustriousness" of his career into account). One more season where 4 more get inducted would likely clear things up. Those also happen to be who I feel are the four strongest candidates, with Lindros a very close 5th.

I don't think any of the first timers in 2010 are strong enough candidates to get in first ballot. Bure, Gilmour, and Oates all had better careers than any of the 2010 first-timers, and all three have had to wait. Yes, Bure has off-ice issues, and Oates insane competition his first year of eligibility (but only the first year), but still.

 

[Section311]

There is no way Leetch could ever get overlooked by the Hall voters. 2 Norris, the Calder, a Conn Smythe, one of only 5 defenseman to ever score 100 pts, oh and he's one of the top 2 American's to ever play in the NHL.

Luc I agree with you on.

I agree with you 100% on Leetch. He still is the only American born player to ever win the conn smythe right?

 

[MXD]

I agree with you 100% on Leetch. He still is the only American born player to ever win the conn smythe right?

Well, yes, but there are definitely some american players that could have won the award, had it existed earlier. Mike Karakas could have been the first player to win it, and he still would never made the HHOF.

This said, Leetch will be going in...

 

[seventieslord]

I don't think any of the first timers in 2010 are strong enough candidates to get in first ballot. Bure, Gilmour, and Oates all had better careers than any of the 2010 first-timers, and all three have had to wait. Yes, Bure has off-ice issues, and Oates insane competition his first year of eligibility (but only the first year), but still.

Agreed. I look at those four candidates for 2010, and two of them will almost surely never get in, and the other two would be borderline entries if/when they do. There are at least three stronget candidates waiting from previous years.

 

[FissionFire]

For 2009, Yzerman, Leetch, and Hull should be shoo-ins. It sounds like a foregone conclusion that Robitailly will be the 4th player but I think Gilmour, Oates, and Bure are all better candidates.

Let's assume Robitaille gets in, though. In 2010, here are the serious candidates:

Bondra, Nieuwendyk, Turgeon, Lindros (first timers)
Andreychuk, Mogilny (second timers)
Gilmour, Oates, Bure, Ciccarelli (waiting a while)

the Hall already screwed up by not inducting four playrs this year. now there is a logjam that will take ages to clear up.

Personally I would start by righting the wrongs and inducting Gilmour, oates, and Bure, and the best left is probably Nieuwendyk (taking the "illustriousness" of his career into account). One more season where 4 more get inducted would likely clear things up. Those also happen to be who I feel are the four strongest candidates, with Lindros a very close 5th.

Could make a strong case that Mark Howe is a better candidate than Oates or Bure and definitely Nieuwendyk. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear why it is they keep passing him over in favor of the borderline guys like Neely and Duff. Is there some sort of grudge against him or his father by a person/people on the committee? Was his joining of the WHA at 18 being held as big black mark against him? I just don't get it.

 

[seventieslord]

Could make a strong case that Mark Howe is a better candidate than Oates or Bure and definitely Nieuwendyk. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear why it is they keep passing him over in favor of the borderline guys like Neely and Duff. Is there some sort of grudge against him or his father by a person/people on the committee? Was his joining of the WHA at 18 being held as big black mark against him? I just don't get it.

yeah, I'd like to know too. I think Gilmour is now the best non-hall player but Howe is right there in the Bure/Oates class and surely a step above Nieuwendyk.

 

[Big Phil]

Could make a strong case that Mark Howe is a better candidate than Oates or Bure and definitely Nieuwendyk. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear why it is they keep passing him over in favor of the borderline guys like Neely and Duff. Is there some sort of grudge against him or his father by a person/people on the committee? Was his joining of the WHA at 18 being held as big black mark against him? I just don't get it.

Howe is an interesting case. Probably the best defenseman not in there along with Tremblay. I don't know why he keeps getting passed up. As for others like Gilmour I havent the foggiest idea why he isnt in by now. A lot of people wouldnt have batted an eyelash if he was in on his first try in 2006. Bure I can see why they may wait a couple of years, but to me he should be in by now. Gilmour though, yeah, I'd sure love to be a fly on the wall as to why he doesnt get in. But like I have said before his off-ice accusations back in his St. Louis days are what I surely believe have hurt him. Despite the fact that it was an allegation (people on here forget that no charges were laid and Gilmour could in fact be innocent) I have a feeling that the HHOF holds that stigma against him to this day

There just isnt a very good reason not to put him in there, not that I have heard even around here

 

[tommygunn]

I think Gilmour is now the best non-hall player

I'd say Makarov!

 

[seventieslord]

True. With Makarov it makes sense why he's not in - his NHL resume isn't great - and the Hall has been very inept at recognizing those greats from outside the NHL. (and I'm not condoing it at all, I'm just saying I can totally see why Makarov is not in)

With Gilmour, it makes so much less sense. He's exactly the type of player the hall would love to induct.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

It's four players, not four inductees. In 2007, four deserving players, plus builder Jim Gregory, were inducted.

Hard to say what will happen. Lindros won't ever get in. Too polarizing. Nieuwendyk will eventually get in, but not first ballot. In fact, I think Nieuwendyk is in for a long wait. At least a decade. Turgeon and Andreychuk have good numbers, but they have a lot of issues, too. Turgeon was soft, he played his way out of three organizations, and he did little besides score. Andreychuk was never named to a first or second all-star team, even though he played at a position with little to choose for all-stars. LW in the 80s and early 90s was weak. No to Bondra. No to Burke.

If Makarov was going to be inducted, I think it would have happened this year when Larionov was inducted. I don't know if Makarov will get in for a long time.

Mogilny has zero shot. A chronic underachiever who failed to live up to his potential for the vast majority of his career.

As far as recent NHLers go, Gilmour and Oates are the best not in the HHOF. Both were excellent two-way players. Oates is the only eligible player with 1,000 assists not in the HHOF. Gilmour was a tremendous clutch player.

I'd like to see Fleury get in - a tremendous clutch player. He set a standard for the "small forward." Every scout for the next decade will be looking for the next Fleury. But his personal issues, especially at the end of his career, will hurt him.

I'd love to see one of the long-time hold-overs - Rogie Vachon, Mark Howe, J.C. Tremblay, Carl Brewer or Claude Provost - get inducted.

What an excellent, well written post. My hat goes off to you sir.

Joe N. will have a long wait, if he gets in at all.

Mogilny was the second Russian to hit 1,000 points in history, but I agree, he has no chance. Too little playoff success to make it in.

Makarov, probably not...again.

No to Lindros, Bondra, and Turgeon. Gilmour should make it, but not on the first ballot.

 

[Debrincat93]

Was Barnaby a joke or something? Did i miss something here? I am not drunk so i thought i read this right...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Howe,Gilmour and Tremblay

Howe is an interesting case. Probably the best defenseman not in there along with Tremblay. I don't know why he keeps getting passed up. As for others like Gilmour I havent the foggiest idea why he isnt in by now. A lot of people wouldnt have batted an eyelash if he was in on his first try in 2006. Bure I can see why they may wait a couple of years, but to me he should be in by now. Gilmour though, yeah, I'd sure love to be a fly on the wall as to why he doesnt get in. But like I have said before his off-ice accusations back in his St. Louis days are what I surely believe have hurt him. Despite the fact that it was an allegation (people on here forget that no charges were laid and Gilmour could in fact be innocent) I have a feeling that the HHOF holds that stigma against him to this day

There just isnt a very good reason not to put him in there, not that I have heard even around here

Mark Howe started as a forward in Junior and the WHA. Played defense in the NHL.
There is a certain bias against considering WHA stats. During most of his WHA/NHL career the defensemen were his contemporaries: Ray Bourque, Doug Wilson, Borje Salming, Paul Coffey, Serge Savard, Larry Robinson, Guy Lapointe, Chris Chelios, Kevin Lowe, Scott Stevens, Denis Potvin, Brian Leetch, Al MacInnis. Rather deep talent pool.

Doug Gilmour hung around too long for too many teams so voters tend to remember the final years. Also the HHOF voting tends to reflect style points as opposed to results.

J.C. Tremblay. Somewhat one-dimensional and did not fit the model of a defenseman during his era. Surrounded by players that made his strengths standout while covering his weaknesses - tentative at times. Ask Bobby Hull who gave him a harder time J.C. Tremblay or Terry Harper. Along the same lines Claude Provost before J.C. Tremblay for the HHOF.

 

[seventieslord]

Didn't J.C. Tremblay throw a tantrum over not winning the Smythe once? I mean literally a tantrum in the dressing room after winning the cup. I think I heard that once. Correct me if I'm wrong.

For a borderline candidate (as far as hall of famers go) that could be the kind of thing that turns the swing votes to the no side.

 

[Phil Parent]

Didn't J.C. Tremblay throw a tantrum over not winning the Smythe once? I mean literally a tantrum in the dressing room after winning the cup. I think I heard that once. Correct me if I'm wrong.

For a borderline candidate (as far as hall of famers go) that could be the kind of thing that turns the swing votes to the no side.

JC Tremblay did a bunch of things that makes he wouldn't be welcome in the hall of fame.

Jumping to the WHA. Saying "You can't make stained glass windows out of broken jar" when talking about his teammates in Quebec.

The Conn Smythe Tantrum, in '66, trophy which was given to Roger Crozier of the runner-up Red Wings, Tremblay simply smashed the locker room in bits with whatever fell in his hands.

The media hated the man because he wouldn't talk to them. Also, he spoke little if any english. He was seen as extremely grumpy.

Bad mouthing the Habs on his way out.

Being generally a greedy, miserable, selfish ass of a professional athlete before it was fashionable.

But for my money he is top five in terms of offensive talent for D-Men in history. Gordie Howe agrees he should be in the HOF. Why shouldn't you? Why shouldn't I?

Tremblay on the PK was a single man game of keep away where he would skate the ice in a "8" pattern, going behind both nets, and usually killing the penalty on his own.

The man used trick shots to his advantage. He'd either flip the puck VERY high, over a long distance, eventually it dropped and usually, it was on the goalie's head, and he won an Avco cup with that; also Tremblay was a fan of we can call the "Toskala Killer" today. Tremblay could actually do that bouncing grounder shot on purpose, and he beat a lot of goalies with it, goalies whom hated him for it.

Not many friends, probably didn't deserve many, but he had talent, and knew talent. As a matter of fact, it was JC Tremblay, right before he died, that advised Serge Savard to pick a young Saku Koivu in the draft.

If the HOF is an award given to the most talented of our game, he deserves in, he should have already been in. One of the most unpredictable players to ever play the game, you just didn't know what "The Wizard" would fish out of his hat.

 

[seventieslord]

Thanks for the insightful post. taught me a lot, actually.

I'm of the opinion that personality issues should not keep a HHOF candidate out, or even minor legal trangressions/accusations. Like Gilmour and the babysitter accusation. Or Ciccarelli with his jail time or the indecent exposure. I mean, sure, there is a line that you can cross but to my knowledge no HHOF-caliber player has actually crossed it. You confirmed what I had suspected - that JC Tremblay was a ******. But he was also a fine player - and if he's better than a good number of players already there, then he should also be.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Excellent post Phil.

In addition, to Howe, I know that Beliveau strongly feels that Tremblay amongst all of his former teammates most deserves to be in the Hall. Truly a special player, and as for his personality ... I'm sure there are worse currently enshrined.

Speaking of his personality, in the late seventies he voluntarily retired from the game when he donated a kidney to his ill daughter who was in need of a transplant. Sadly, years later when he was found to have cancer of the kidney there was nothing that could be done.

 

[Cool Beans Man]

Stanley Cup is not a accomplishment that should be noted if deciding whether or not someone should be in HHOF. Neither does Olympic achievements, because those are TEAM accomplishments.

Sorry to somewhat resurrect this, and I understand your argument, but when the guy won everywhere he went (minus Toronto) he is labelled a winner. He was brought as an intergal piece to help Dallas win a cup (and got the Conn Smythe) and he was brought to New Jersey and helped that team win as well. That is reason I included team success in his accomplishments

 

[The Korean*]

Sorry to somewhat resurrect this, and I understand your argument, but when the guy won everywhere he went (minus Toronto) he is labelled a winner. He was brought as an intergal piece to help Dallas win a cup (and got the Conn Smythe) and he was brought to New Jersey and helped that team win as well. That is reason I included team success in his accomplishments

Unless you are Wayne Gretzky you can't make a team with little talent in to a Stanley Cup contender. And even Gretzky failed to take the kings to the promise land. What does that say? It takes team effort. Team effort results from what? Team. Like I said, you could be the least talented player in the NHL and if the luck follows, you could win anywhere you go on your career. You could certainly be the most valuable part of the team. That deserves to be recognized. But you can't just say he has won this many Cups and this many Olympic medals to make him a legitimate HOFer.

 

[Cool Beans Man]

Unless you are Wayne Gretzky you can't make a team with little talent in to a Stanley Cup contender. And even Gretzky failed to take the kings to the promise land. What does that say? It takes team effort. Team effort results from what? Team. Like I said, you could be the least talented player in the NHL and if the luck follows, you could win anywhere you go on your career. You could certainly be the most valuable part of the team. That deserves to be recognized. But you can't just say he has won this many Cups and this many Olympic medals to make him a legitimate HOFer.

Don't get me wrong, I am not crediting Nieuwendyk with winning any cups by himself or anything, it's just a very impressive team track record to go along with his very impressive individual numbers.

 

[Al Bundy*]

Patrik Stefan

Does the HHOF have a "Blooper Section?"

 

[Bohemian93]

i think its likely these four can be inducted

dave andreychuk
adam oates
doug gilmour
theo fleury

 

[Dark Shadows]

i think its likely these four can be inducted

dave andreychuk
adam oates
doug gilmour
theo fleury

Andreychuk? Fleury? No, just No..........NO............NO!.

Again, its the hall of fame, not the hall of very good.

Oates and Gilmour are close, but Gimmes for me.

 

[arrbez]

Andreychuk? Fleury? No, just No..........NO............NO!.

Again, its the hall of fame, not the hall of very good.

Oates and Gilmour are close, but Gimmes for me.

I think Fleury is definitely closer to Oates and Gilmour than he was to Andreychuk. He was really an excellent player throughout the 90's, and was amazing in the playoffs for teams that never made it past the first round.

He was bat**** crazy though, which doesn't help his cause.

 

[cupcrazyman]

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/indelection.htm

Eligibility for Election

Player:Must have concluded his career as an active player for a minimum of three playing seasons.

Yzerman, Hull will get in on 1st ballot.most of those listed in this thread will get in eventually.most players who had better careers than them are already in the Hall.

except Fleury won't get in............