2003 draft Revisited

[CH Wizard]

I really hope no Eric Fehr is an oversight? O'Sullivan and Stone in front of him?

No way.

1. Phaneuf
2. Zherdev
3. Fehr
4. Staal
5. Suter
6. Coburn
7. Vanek
8. Stuart
9. A. Stewart
10. Getzlaf
11. Fleury
12. Richards
13. Seabrooke
14. Brown
15. Horton
16. Fritsche
17. Kostitsyn
18. Michalek
19. Bergeron
20. Perry
21. Carter
22. Pouliot
23. Kesler
24. Klein
25. Nilsson
26. Parise
27. Burns
28. Stone
29. Bernier
30. O'Sullivan

OUCH ! Are you a caps fan ?! :lol

Horton at 15 ?! Fritshe in front of Kost ?! Parise 26,Carter 21 ? :lol

Thx for the laugh though.

 

[borro]

No, I think you mean zero intelligence would dictate 3-5 on Fehr.

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you have intelligence. It just hasn't displayed itself yet.

 

[SwOOsh*]

In the last few months you have become one of the biggest homers, were talking bigtrain territory here >>>.

 

[Captain Conservative]

I really hope no Eric Fehr is an oversight? O'Sullivan and Stone in front of him?

No way.

1. Phaneuf
2. Zherdev
3. Fehr
4. Staal
5. Suter
6. Coburn
7. Vanek
8. Stuart
9. A. Stewart
10. Getzlaf
11. Fleury
12. Richards
13. Seabrooke
14. Brown
15. Horton
16. Fritsche
17. Kostitsyn
18. Michalek
19. Bergeron
20. Perry
21. Carter
22. Pouliot
23. Kesler
24. Klein
25. Nilsson
26. Parise
27. Burns
28. Stone
29. Bernier
30. O'Sullivan

Please go away, you are embaressing your fellow cap fans.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you have intelligence. It just hasn't displayed itself yet.

Mr Texas here must know what he is talking about seeing all these prospects play. That must be the worst list I have evr seen. Stick to high school football.

 

[UWSaint]

Couple of things. First going against the other teams top line in the ahl is good for your offense because most time those players don't play defense as well. An offensive player can learn to back check more than a defensive forward can learn to score.
gp g a p +/- pim pp sh gw gt fg ot vg shots pct
96/97 53 23 25 48 8 81 3 1 3 0 4 0 1 180 12.8
97/98 45 30 26 56 20 74 14 2 2 0 8 0 4 160 18.8

These are the stats for another former Rochester Amerk: Vaclav Varada.

Now his NHL stats:

Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
1995-1996 Sabres 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
1996-1997 Sabres 5 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0
1997-1998 Sabres 27 5 6 11 0 15 0 0 1 1 27 18.5
1998-1999 Sabres 72 7 24 31 11 61 1 0 1 0 123 5.7
1999-2000 Sabres 76 10 27 37 12 62 0 0 0 0 140 7.1
2000-2001 Sabres 75 10 21 31 -2 81 2 0 2 0 112 8.9
2001-2002 Sabres 76 7 16 23 -7 82 1 0 1 0 138 5.1
2002-2003 Sabres 44 7 4 11 -2 23 1 0 0 0 64 10.9
2002-2003 Senators 11 2 6 8 3 8 1 0 0 0 17 11.8
2003-2004 Senators 30 5 5 10 2 26 0 0 1 0 47 10.6

NHL Totals 417 53 109 162 17 360 6 0 6 1 672 7.9


The AHL isn't a snipers game. It is a muckers and grinders game. You can be very successful in the AHL as a mucker and a grinder. Vaclav Varada didn't develop hands of stone in the NHL, it's just harder for muckers and grinders to score in the NHL.

I'm not saying that Vanek doesn't have to work on parts of his game, I'm sure he does but to take half a years statistics try to reevaluate a 2 year old draft before 95% of them have had an opportunity to play in the NHL is a bit much. I suppose with no NHL to watch we all have time on our hands but I suspect many of you would still be making these lists during intermissions instead of watching the Zamboni go round and round.

So Varada scored a point a game in an era where teams were scoring about 35% more goals. What is this supposed to show exactly?

Look, no doubt that not everyone scores at the NHL level like they do in the AHL, but this anecdote serves only to show that there is a player named Vaclav Varada. . . . .

 

[Jaded-Fan]

As much as i think Fleury is overated he still goes top 5. 2nd round? :lol
Fleury had one bad mistake and now is out in the cold. Still a very good prospect. He shouldn't have gone #1 but still.
Real glad that we got Horton. I think personall i would Zherdev ahead of him. The top 5 are so close on potential though. All have a similiar upsides.
FLA did in my view get a good deal with Pittsburgh. Getting Meyer was great. In an ordinary year he'd have gone late first round.

A lot of you guys are putting Kesler to high. He has the upsided of a 2nd liner or a very good 3rd liner. Since the 03 draft was sooo deep i'd be looking for more in the 1st round than that.

As I posted in another thread, searching through the HF rankings for other reasons brought me to HF's top 50 rankings that have Maffy number 5 overall, for whatever that's worth. Ahead of Horton btw, but that is not that significant, they are both in similar range. It at least justifies the top five ranking that year that I agree with you on, Maffy only went number one that year as I said above because FLA obviously had no need for a goaltender and wanted to move, the Pens had need and were willing and high enough in a deep draft at three to make it worth it to both teams. If the Pens had not moved, Maffy would have gone 2nd, which in my opinion would have been about right, 2-5:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/top50.php

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure you have intelligence. It just hasn't displayed itself yet.

Excuse me? I can't really read what you're saying because all it says is:

CAPITALS HOMER

 

[Chaos]

Mr Texas here must know what he is talking about seeing all these prospects play. That must be the worst list I have evr seen. Stick to high school football.

Hey now....rip him for that list, but no need to generalize(for a lack of a better word)

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Biggest stat maybe that Kesler is a +16 and Vanek, on maybe the best team, in the AHL is -1. Also Kesler has to go against the other teams top line every night and Vanek has scored 10 goals on the power play.

Rochester is not the best team in the AHL at all and probably actually rated below Manitoba IMO. Manitoba are one of the highest scoring teams and Kesler's goals are only good enough for 3rd on his team while Vanek is leading his team. I agree Kesler's plus minus is good in that he is among the best on his team whereas Vanek is only average on his. Being a powerplay weapon however means less pluses in his column than Kesler.

 

[Biscuit Bullet]

Fehr is one point behind the leading scorer in the WHL (and has played 6 less games), and is 10 goals ahead of the next leading goal scorer (Setoguchi). I don't think he would go top 5, but knowing what we know now, I could see him as being a top 10 pick. So check it, You's gotta give him respeck, he's on pace for like 75 goals this season and around 120 points. Booyakasha!

 

[UWSaint]

Rochester is not the best team in the AHL at all and probably actually rated below Manitoba IMO. Manitoba are one of the highest scoring teams and Kesler's goals are only good enough for 3rd on his team while Vanek is leading his team. I agree Kesler's plus minus is good in that he is among the best on his team whereas Vanek is only average on his. Being a powerplay weapon however means less pluses in his column than Kesler.

This is an underappreciated point. A lot of people criticize players who score most of their points on the power play, but the ability to take advantage of odd man situations wins a lot of games and a special skill set is required to score more power play goals than the average guy on a first unit. Vanek certainly has the potential to be a terrific part of a #1 power play unit in the NHL.

 

[orcatown]

sabre fan -- you are flat out wrong - Vanek does not lead Rochester in points - Roy does. Vanek is fourth.

Rochester is ahead of Manitoba and is vying for first place in the league

We can opinions about the value of different prospects but facts are facts

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

sabre fan -- you are flat out wrong - Vanek does not lead Rochester in points - Roy does. Vanek is fourth.

Rochester is ahead of Manitoba and is vying for first place in the league

We can opinions about the value of different prospects but facts are facts

Can't you read? He said goals.

 

[craig1]

Mikael Samuelsson at the time of the trade was a solid player in PIT for the short time he was there and was beginning to look like a 15 goal scorer and he had some value.

Saying he was a solid player for the Pens is like saying Ulf Samuelsson was known for his finesse and scoring touch!

 

[sabresfan65]

sabre fan -- you are flat out wrong - Vanek does not lead Rochester in points - Roy does. Vanek is fourth.

Rochester is ahead of Manitoba and is vying for first place in the league

We can opinions about the value of different prospects but facts are facts

Where did I say that he leads them in points? I never did.

 

[orcatown]

Sorry sabre fan - got you mixed up with another poster who claimed Banek lead Rochester in ponit - see page 6

 

[Jacob]

What the hell, this would likely be final list, in hindsight.

1. Nikolai Zherdev
2. Patrice Bergeron
3. Marc-Andre Fleury
4. Eric Staal
5. Dion Phaneuf
6. Nathan Horton
7. Ryan Suter
8. Jeff Carter
9. Thomas Vanek
10. Dustin Brown
11. Zach Parise
12. Eric Fehr
13. Mark Stuart
14. Ryan Kesler
15. Ryan Getzlaf
16. Corey Perry
17. Andrei Kostitsyn
18. Brent Seabrook
19. Braydon Coburn
20. Mike Richards
21. Anthony Stewart
22. Dan Fritsche
23. Robert Nilsson
24. Milan Michalek
25. Jeff Tambellini
26. Shea Weber
27. Hugh Jessiman
28. Josh Hennessy
29. Patrick Eaves
30. Marc-Antoine Pouliot

 

[Captain Conservative]

What the hell, this would likely be final list, in hindsight.

1. Nikolai Zherdev
2. Patrice Bergeron
3. Marc-Andre Fleury
4. Eric Staal
5. Dion Phaneuf
6. Nathan Horton
7. Ryan Suter
8. Jeff Carter
9. Thomas Vanek
10. Dustin Brown
11. Zach Parise
12. Eric Fehr
13. Mark Stuart
14. Ryan Kesler
15. Ryan Getzlaf
16. Corey Perry
17. Andrei Kostitsyn
18. Brent Seabrook
19. Braydon Coburn
20. Mike Richards
21. Anthony Stewart
22. Dan Fritsche
23. Robert Nilsson
24. Milan Michalek
25. Jeff Tambellini
26. Shea Weber
27. Hugh Jessiman
28. Josh Hennessy
29. Patrick Eaves
30. Marc-Antoine Pouliot

Stunningly unbiased. You get a gold star. *claps* (doesn't hurt that you put my boy Fehr @ 12 either )

 

[KILLger]

I feel Bergeron is the new overhyped/overated guy around nowadays. Yes, he's good. He's not exactly dominating the A though... I can't see him over Staal, Horton, Fleury, Zherdev, etc... I'd probably rank him in the latter part of the top 10, but top 3? Never..

 

[Jacob]

I feel Bergeron is the new overhyped/overated guy around nowadays. Yes, he's good. He's not exactly dominating the A though... I can't see him over Staal, Horton, Fleury, Zherdev, etc... I'd probably rank him in the latter part of the top 10, but top 3? Never..

Bergeron is, statistically, doing better than Staal and Horton in the AHL. It would be a difficult choice, but right now, I'd take Bergeron over Staal. Taking him over Horton is a less difficult decision.

 

[sunb]

Here is my list.

Notes:
- Horton should've went first overall but Pittsburgh wanted a goalie and was afraid of Carolina at #2
- Fleury is a top 3 pick regardless
- Kesler is not extremely high but higher due to what he has proven
- Proven talents like Staal and Bergeron will be very high
- Unproven surprises like Fehr, Parise and Perry will rise, but not significantly
- Brent Burns still has a lot of potential
- Thomas Vanek is imo overrated and will be around #10-12 or so
- Milan Michalek's injury will force him outside of the top 8

1.) Nathan Horton
2.) Marc-Andre Fleury
3.) Eric Staal
4.) Dion Phaneuf
5.) Nikolai Zherdev
6.) Patrice Bergeron
7.) Jeff Carter
8.) Ryan Suter
9.) Dustin Brown
10.) Zach Parise
11.) Thomas Vanek
12.) Milan Michalek
13.) Ryan Getzlaf
14.) Eric Fehr
15.) Ryan Kesler
16.) Andrei Kosistyn
17.) Brent Seabrook
18.) Braydon Coburn
19.) Mike Richards
20.) Corey Perry
21.) Brent Burns
22.) Mark Stuart
23.) Dan Fristche
24.) Shea Weber
25.) Anthony Stewart
26.) Hugh Jessiman
27.) Robert Nilsson
28.) Robert O'Sullivan
29.) Ryan Stone
30.) Petr Vrana

If I were to expand my list, my next 10 would be
Steve Bernier, Shawn Belle, Patrick Eaves, Loui Eriksson, Marc-Antoine Pouilot, Tim Ramholdt, Jeff Tambellini, Clarke MacArthur, Brian Boyle and Josh Hennessy

 

[arnie]

If the draft was redone this is the order I see. Based on who I would most want.

1. Horton
2. Zherdev
3. Bergeron
4. Phnaeuf
5. Staal
6. Carter
7. Suter
8. Parise
9. Michalek
11. Kesler
12. Burns
13. Vanek
14. Richards
15. Getzlaf
16. Coburn
17. Kostitsyn
18. Fehr
19. Belle
20. Seabrooke
21. Brown
22. Perry
23. O'Sullivan
24. Weber
25. Vrana
26. Fritsche
27. Stone
28. Stuart
29. Bernier
30. Stewart

I don't see Polliot, Tambellini, Nilsson,Eaves, Boyle in the top round. Admit Eaves and Boyle are doing ok at Boston College but think others have moved ahead of them) Jessiman is MIA so hard to rate his progress

I think this open to a lot of debate.

You can't make a ranking like this that is meaningful since it depends on what your team needs. The top players were very close, so need was important. For example, neither Florida nor Carolina (who had picked a goalie #1 the year before) needed Fleury. The Pens did.

If we are talking about pure talent, however, I don't see how Zherdev, Bergeron and Phnaeuf could not be the top 3. Given Fleury's merely OK play the last year, he definately drops out of the top 4, where he was pegged on draft day.

.

 

[Jacob]

Nobody pegged Fleury out of the top 4 on draft day.

 

[sunb]

You can't make a ranking like this that is meaningful since it depends on what your team needs. The top players were very close, so need was important. For example, neither Florida nor Carolina (who had picked a goalie #1 the year before) needed Fleury. The Pens did.

If we are talking about pure talent, however, I don't see how Zherdev, Bergeron and Phnaeuf could not be the top 3. Given Fleury's merely OK play the last year, he definately drops out of the top 4, where he was pegged on draft day.

.

Most scouts that day believed Marc-Andre Fleury would've been taken 2nd overall by Carolina had the trade not gone down. Pittsburgh was at #3 and was scared that Carolina might take "their man" so hence the trade. I think Carolina won out with Staal but Fleury has so much potential it could blow Staal's effects out of the water. I am actually pretty sure Carolina would've taken Fleury on draft day. This was before Fleury's WJC mishap and he was simply amazing in his last couple of years and absolutely went on fire the months prior to the draft. He was a great mix of raw ability and solid mechanics. Carolina had Weekes, Irbe and Cam Ward as their top prospect. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded Fleury with their pick.