20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[4Twenty]

So you're left with $12M to spend and you need 2 top 4 defensemen, 2 top 6 forwards, a 3C, and depth.

That 4th line is very ugly and will be under water at even strength all year. That bottom pairing is garbage and will be under water all year. To think you can build a playoff team despite that many holes is simply not realistic.

I'm not saying anything will magically flip after 2 seasons. I'm saying we will be rid of (most of) the bad contracts. After 2 years of aggressive rebuilding we will have more draft picks/prospects/young players in the system coming up, and we'll have a lot more cap space to strategically fill out the rest of the team. I'm not saying we will automatically be a contender by year 3, but that this is the year we should be able to look at a serious upswing and building something. But for the next 1-2 years the focus should be solely on ridding ourselves of the bad contracts, stockpiling as many picks and prospects as we can, and refocusing our core.

Can you show me what your idea of a tanking lineup looks like?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Can you show me what your idea of a tanking lineup looks like?

For next season:

??? - Pettersson - Boeser
Hoglander - Horvat - Podkolzin
Roussell - Gaudette - Virtanen
Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

Hughes - Schmidt
??? - ???
Juolevi - Myers

Demko
Holtby

I would trade JT Miller, ideally for a 1st round pick and top prospect.
I would also shop Bo Horvat and see if I can return another 1st round pick and top prospect at a minimum.
I would shop Nate Schmidt after the expansion draft to a team that lost a key defenseman.

I am not paying any assets to trade away Roussell or Beagle. I would have holes in my top 4 defense, and holes in my top 6 forwards (as mentioned earlier ideally you have Hoglander and perhaps even Podkolzin on the 3rd line).

It's hard to tell who will be available in free agency to target, but it goes without saying that any signing I make would be limited to 1-year.

 

[4Twenty]

For next season:

??? - Pettersson - Boeser
Hoglander - Horvat - Podkolzin
Roussell - Gaudette - Virtanen
Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

Hughes - Schmidt
??? - ???
Juolevi - Myers

Demko
Holtby

I would trade JT Miller, ideally for a 1st round pick and top prospect.
I would also shop Bo Horvat and see if I can return another 1st round pick and top prospect at a minimum.
I would shop Nate Schmidt after the expansion draft to a team that lost a key defenseman.

I am not paying any assets to trade away Roussell or Beagle. I would have holes in my top 4 defense, and holes in my top 6 forwards (as mentioned earlier ideally you have Hoglander and perhaps even Podkolzin on the 3rd line).

It's hard to tell who will be available in free agency to target, but it goes without saying that any signing I make would be limited to 1-year.

I like my plan better and as long as Miller and Horvat don’t turn into pumpkins their values should remain constant or at least not crater.

If my plan fails deal Miller next deadline and we’re still on your plan other than I tried to get players to keep my young core going you’re trying to make them give up returning the same damn team other than good players like Miller and edler.

Hopefully the new GM arrives.

I’ll worry about next years plans when that happens.

Cheers

 

[theguardianII]

They want something more like Horvat, Boeser, Pod for Eichel. And I'd still do it.

I'd do the Hughes for Dahlin trade today but time is running out for that deal. They're ruining Dahlin and if he doesn't get traded or they don't figure things out in Buffalo soon he's not going to ever be as good as Hughes.

You don't really believe Eichel is out because of some obscure injury do you? He wants out now and they have to keep it quiet or other teams will rape them. Pretty much too late now but ya Boeser and Virtanen with Sutter might do it with a 2nd rnd pick added and Sutter retention.
I swapped out Horvat for Boeser because of Boeser's next contract hurts the Canucks.
But Horvat might be switched out with Miller too
For Dahlin, Hughes and Juloevi could do it

A win, win for both teams. It almost comes out even money

 

[y2kcanucks]

I like my plan better and as long as Miller and Horvat don’t turn into pumpkins their values should remain constant or at least not crater.

If my plan fails deal Miller next deadline and we’re still on your plan other than I tried to get players to keep my young core going you’re trying to make them give up returning the same damn team other than good players like Miller and edler.

Hopefully the new GM arrives.

I’ll worry about next years plans when that happens.

Cheers

That's fine. I like my plan better where we don't waste years continuing to be mediocre and ultimately accomplish nothing except for devaluing our biggest trade chips. I don't think there's value in doing the same thing Jim Benning has wanted to do every year for 7 years.

 

[VanJack]

You know the real sad thing, is contemplating what would have happened if the Canucks had simply embraced the 'rebuild' the right way from the very beginning.

Instead of flood of stop-gap players, poor trades and UFA signings--which cost them valuable draft picks (five seconds according to my calculations), why not just bottom out with young guys and cheap, replacement level players?

I know the Canucks felt duty bound to try and infill the team around the Sedins.....but how did that work? The Canucks didn't make the playoffs in their final four seasons anyway.

One thing's for certain.....with all the young guys they've got in the pipeline, they'd be light years ahead of where they are now if they had just tanked early in Benning's tenure, like they should have.

It's ironic that if Benning gets canned this off-season, somebody else will inherit the boat-load of prospects the Canucks have built up.

 

[Fatass]

You know the real sad thing, is contemplating what would have happened if the Canucks had simply embraced the 'rebuild' the right way from the very beginning.

Instead of flood of stop-gap players, poor trades and UFA signings--which cost them valuable draft picks (five seconds according to my calculations), why not just bottom out with young guys and cheap, replacement level players?

I know the Canucks felt duty bound to try and infill the team around the Sedins.....but how did that work? The Canucks didn't make the playoffs in their final four seasons anyway.

One thing's for certain.....with all the young guys they've got in the pipeline, they'd be light years ahead of where they are now if they had just tanked early in Benning's tenure, like they should have.

It's ironic that if Benning gets canned this off-season, somebody else will inherit the boat-load of prospects the Canucks have built up.

Boatload of prospects? Benning traded away a boatload of second and third round picks is more accurate, I think.

 

[m9]

You know the real sad thing, is contemplating what would have happened if the Canucks had simply embraced the 'rebuild' the right way from the very beginning.

Instead of flood of stop-gap players, poor trades and UFA signings--which cost them valuable draft picks (five seconds according to my calculations), why not just bottom out with young guys and cheap, replacement level players?

I know the Canucks felt duty bound to try and infill the team around the Sedins.....but how did that work? The Canucks didn't make the playoffs in their final four seasons anyway.

One thing's for certain.....with all the young guys they've got in the pipeline, they'd be light years ahead of where they are now if they had just tanked early in Benning's tenure, like they should have.

It's ironic that if Benning gets canned this off-season, somebody else will inherit the boat-load of prospects the Canucks have built up.

There's no boatload of prospects coming. The incoming prospect pool when Benning took over is better than what it is now. The young bluechip talent on the roster is obviously better though, which is hopefully what a new GM can capitalize on.

 

[m9]

It's just unbelievable that next year this team - with all of it's cap and so-called financial issues - is going to be paying a backup goalie 5.7 million with a cap hit of 4.3 million in 2021 that they just signed only a few months ago. I haven't gone back into the Holtby signing thread in awhile but I might have to for a laugh as some of the post-signing fawning over this goalie and the GM who signed him was just so completely out-to-lunch.

 

[J Corso]

What we need tonight is a good old fashioned shit-kicking. Just losing repeatedly clearly isn't enough to get Benning fired, we need to lose something like 8-0 to really light the fires.

 

[I am toxic]

Do people find it refreshing the civil, intelligent debate (largely) between @y2kcanucks and @420Canuck about an actual plan that makes sense?

Rather than addressing But Gillis, wait and see, hindsight is 20/20?

After 7 years of Benning worship, the end is finally in sight.

Hopefully in the future trolls will not be allowed to infest HFCanucks like the past many years.

Well, hopefully for you people. I feed off that shit.

 

[I am toxic]

For next season:

??? - Pettersson - Boeser
Hoglander - Horvat - Podkolzin
Roussell - Gaudette - Virtanen
Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

Hughes - Schmidt
??? - ???
Juolevi - Myers

Demko
Holtby

I would trade JT Miller, ideally for a 1st round pick and top prospect.
I would also shop Bo Horvat and see if I can return another 1st round pick and top prospect at a minimum.
I would shop Nate Schmidt after the expansion draft to a team that lost a key defenseman.

I am not paying any assets to trade away Roussell or Beagle. I would have holes in my top 4 defense, and holes in my top 6 forwards (as mentioned earlier ideally you have Hoglander and perhaps even Podkolzin on the 3rd line).

It's hard to tell who will be available in free agency to target, but it goes without saying that any signing I make would be limited to 1-year.

One thing I would like to see addressed is getting Hughes a partner that can shelter - is that the word I'm looking for - like Tanev did. Maybe Schmidt can do it, or if you trade Schmidt you get something that can.

I thought Schenn was actually - bang for the buck - Hughes' best partner. But Schenn is getting to that age now where I don't think that would necessarily work.

 

[m9]

One thing I would like to see addressed is getting Hughes a partner that can shelter - is that the word I'm looking for - like Tanev did. Maybe Schmidt can do it, or if you trade Schmidt you get something that can.

I thought Schenn was actually - bang for the buck - Hughes' best partner. But Schenn is getting to that age now where I don't think that would necessarily work.

Since it's related, one thing missing from these lineup proposals above is that it's imperative that the Canucks use the expansion draft as an opportunity to add a defenseman at a discount from a team that is in protection trouble. Maybe it means they trade a forward to get that guy or maybe it's some other sort of deal, but regardless the opportunity is there to get a legit top-4 guy.

 

[mriswith]

For next season:

??? - Pettersson - Boeser
Hoglander - Horvat - Podkolzin
Roussell - Gaudette - Virtanen
Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

Hughes - Schmidt
??? - ???
Juolevi - Myers

Demko
Holtby

I would trade JT Miller, ideally for a 1st round pick and top prospect.
I would also shop Bo Horvat and see if I can return another 1st round pick and top prospect at a minimum.
I would shop Nate Schmidt after the expansion draft to a team that lost a key defenseman.

I am not paying any assets to trade away Roussell or Beagle. I would have holes in my top 4 defense, and holes in my top 6 forwards (as mentioned earlier ideally you have Hoglander and perhaps even Podkolzin on the 3rd line).

It's hard to tell who will be available in free agency to target, but it goes without saying that any signing I make would be limited to 1-year.

I'm on the same page as you.

The way I see it, you have two options:
1. Sell futures to dump bad contracts and try to replace them with good value UFA signings

2. Sell what you can now for a mini-two year rebuild until the worst UFA's are gone and have a stockpile of assets accumulated when the two years (1.5 years at this point) are up and you're ready to compete.

Option 1 puts you in the same situation as 15 other teams in the league, perpetual bubble team hoping to luck into a dark horse cup run, home run trade, or a draft lottery win while having a mediocre farm team that can't push the team further.

Option 2 puts you in a position where when your team naturally becomes a bubble team on its own without selling futures, you have stockpiled enough assets to slingshot your bubble team into being a contender.

Put simply, option 1 is cashing in your chips to become a perpetual bubble team. Option two is being a little bit patient and then cashing in your chips to become a contender.

I think the perception that it's hard to go from bad team to mediocre bubble team is wrong, teams just screw themselves trying to take shortcuts. The draft is designed to push bad teams into mediocre bubble team positions and the cap is designed to push contenders into mediocre bubble teams so it only makes sense to apply leverage/futures against entropy instead of applying leverage just to speed it up.

 

[4Twenty]

That's fine. I like my plan better where we don't waste years continuing to be mediocre and ultimately accomplish nothing except for devaluing our biggest trade chips. I don't think there's value in doing the same thing Jim Benning has wanted to do every year for 7 years.

Signing one year deals isnt something Jim Benning has never done, so not sure how that’s the same.

 

[xtra]

I’m kinda in between these two ideas.

mid take y2ks idea of trading Miller and Schmidt BUT argument it with trading for teams that have players they are trying to dump with one year on the contract.

Like Marleau who had 1 year and got the canes a first; I wouldn’t touch anyone with more than next year left

 

[timw33]

Ottawa can move 1 point behind Vancouver with a game in hand if they hold on to beat CGY/WPG wins.

 

[zcaptain]

A wild Benning supporter appears! It’s magical

I used to be a Benning supporter, but I have changed over the last year, but only where it comes to his continuing problem handling the cap, which has to do with signings

His drafting has been better than average, IMO, regardless of who did the actual drafting it was his over sight, so
It is not to say, he has managed those assets properly after drafting............

But if you are saying because I call it the way I see it, makes me a Benning supporter, I was and I ain't. My point was and is, this is a tank thread, not a bashing Benning thread, where you can just be a trumpladog, and say anything you want, without any supporting evidence, and then trash who ever argues against that.

Don't make it personal, and I am fine. Just for the record.....I am pretty pissed at Benning right now!

 

[valkynax]

I used to be a Benning supporter, but I have changed over the last year, but only where it comes to his continuing problem handling the cap, which has to do with signings

His drafting has been better than average, IMO, regardless of who did the actual drafting it was his over sight, so
It is not to say, he has managed those assets properly after drafting............

But if you are saying because I call it the way I see it, makes me a Benning supporter, I was and I ain't. My point was and is, this is a tank thread, not a bashing Benning thread, where you can just be a trumpladog, and say anything you want, without any supporting evidence, and then trash who ever argues against that.

Don't make it personal, and I am fine. Just for the record.....I am pretty pissed at Benning right now!

Right now the primary purpose of the tank is to get Benning fired ASAP, then hire someone who's worth a shit to clean up the mess.

I've given up on hoping for a high pick long ago...how sad am I.
=_=

 

[zcaptain]

Here is my thoughts on trading................anytime you can trade and get better short term and long term, then you should do it.

Example.............Pearson out at TDL, and sign Anthony Duclair as a UFA........in my opinion, this is a no brainer, because Duclair has more points, Duclair is younger, Duclair costs less......so there for what is there to loose?
But we gain a draft pick ( we can argue value of pick some other day), but that is a net gain, in so many ways.

Trading Miller is a little bit trickier, but again, it depends if you have some one internal that can step up into his spot, or if there is a UFA available that can take his place next year..........as an example ..........Mike Hoffman????
This time he is older than Miller, but cheaper, and what is the return? As that will be an important factor on whether you trade him or not.

Alex Edler should be open for debate, especially because, we could resign him this summer.

Hell, I would trade Hughes for an over payment. Or what I perceive as an over payment, lets just say something like Ty Smith, 2021-1st and Nolan Foote. A 3 for 1 no brainer............Why wouldn't you?

The Lessers.....Sutter, Hamonic, Benn, they should just be automatic moves at the TDL

My point all players at the right price should be open to debate, especially if they are replaceable.

I have always felt that way!

 

[zcaptain]

Right now the primary purpose of the tank is to get Benning fired ASAP, then hire someone who's worth a shit to clean up the mess.

I've given up on hoping for a high pick long ago...how sad am I.
=_=

Vax, I have absolutely no problem with your reason, and I totally understand it. I am all about the draft, most years, this year, it is a kill 2 birds with 1 stone, for me.

I am just getting so tired of people putting out fake news. The Canucks young players are decent, it is the surrounding veterans that suck in general, so people that infer that Benning is a poor drafter are looking at that issue properly.....
and IMO, it gets a little repetitive, which I what I am saying............

I am ok, with Bennings 1st round picks in general, and even his second picks are not bad, it is more that he has traded those 2nds away, that pisses me off.

PS............My tank is also to get rid of the Coaches, who I really have a problem with, so we all got our axes to grind, I guess?????

 

[valkynax]

Vax, I have absolutely no problem with your reason, and I totally understand it. I am all about the draft, most years, this year, it is a kill 2 birds with 1 stone, for me.

I am just getting so tired of people putting out fake news. The Canucks young players are decent, it is the surrounding veterans that suck in general, so people that infer that Benning is a poor drafter are looking at that issue properly.....
and IMO, it gets a little repetitive, which I what I am saying............

I am ok, with Bennings 1st round picks in general, and even his second picks are not bad, it is more that he has traded those 2nds away, that pisses me off.

PS............My tank is also to get rid of the Coaches, who I really have a problem with, so we all got our axes to grind, I guess?????

Oh yeah...I don't get what the deal is with Green anymore, and my confidence for him to guide our young guys is almost vanished completely.

See you would think that a GM whose draft is the only good thing would hoard up picks, but no, the guy pissed away enough picks to sink a cruise ship. And I cannot for the life of me understand why.

And then you get these weird theories that people somehow have a vendetta against Benning just because he's Benning. I mean...really???

 

[Fatass]

Big win for the Sens tonight. We can get into the bottom two with a solid effort this week.

 

[zcaptain]

Oh yeah...I don't get what the deal is with Green anymore, and my confidence for him to guide our young guys is almost vanished completely.

See you would think that a GM whose draft is the only good thing would hoard up picks, but no, the guy pissed away enough picks to sink a cruise ship. And I cannot for the life of me understand why.

And then you get these weird theories that people somehow have a vendetta against Benning just because he's Benning. I mean...really???

Oh no, he has earned his poison honestly. Like I said earlier, he really pissed my off, this past season. Not that he didn't before, but this last season was my last straw.

As for the picks he has squandered......don't get me started. That Anderson guy in Calgary sure looks good doesn't he!
And also not being creative in his trades to acquire more picks. Or sitting on his hands at the TDL, etc........No, I got how bad he has been, but for me it has been accumulative.

But that is why I just don't want to keep mulling it over, and over , and over again. We all got it, lets get on to talking about more intelligent things

 

[valkynax]

Oh no, he has earned his poison honestly. Like I said earlier, he really pissed my off, this past season. Not that he didn't before, but this last season was my last straw.

As for the picks he has squandered......don't get me started. That Anderson guy in Calgary sure looks good doesn't he!
And also not being creative in his trades to acquire more picks. Or sitting on his hands at the TDL, etc........No, I got how bad he has been, but for me it has been accumulative.

But that is why I just don't want to keep mulling it over, and over , and over again. We all got it, lets get on to talking about more intelligent things

Tonight, as long as Jets brings out 75% of their best game we're good as f***ed.