Proposal: #2 OA (Svechnikov) for Pacioretty + #3OA

[PriceIsGod]

This is one of those proposals where everyone is better off saying "nope!"

Montreal could get better value for MaxPac elsewhere.

Carolina is better off keeping #2 and taking Svechnikov, rather than downgrading to Zadina and adding a pending UFA who we won't re-sign and flip at the TDL for more depth futures we don't need.

I'm not sure I have Zadina in the top-5 come draft day personally, so in my opinion yes the gap is gigantic. But that is all opinion based thinking.

I just don't see the value for the Canes being a cap team that won't re-sign him, and don't have serious Stanley Cup aspirations next season. At best they trade him at the deadline for a 1st+, but even then they're essentially getting the worse prospect (by a lot in my eyes), a late 1st and maybe a prospect from a contender.

Just for curiosity sake, in a world where you flip Pac at the draft pretty much upon acquiring him/a three way deal were to happen what would Canes fans think then.

Just an outline for an example:

Canes acquires:
#3, #15

Montreal acquires:
#2

Florida acquires:
Max Pacioretty

Now obviously more could/probably would be added but those are the main pieces. Would Carolina do it or would they rather #2 and draft Svech? I'm really just curious because personally I would take #3 and #15 but that's looking at it from a Habs POV and we have quite a few holes to fill with a roster overhaul.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Exactly this. You might, or might not be right. We just can't know.

Why do you think there is a consensus on the top 3 ? after that it'S up for the grab, but not before... sure MTL needs way more a LHD than a LW but they will pick Zadina or Svech because THERE IS A CONSENSUS on the top 3 ( they will all be superstar)

As for Pulju, it was said 1 month before the draft that he didint have the mind to make it into the NHL right away. he will make it, but it's what made him dropped so hard. so there wasn't a consensus on the top3

 

[Morgs]

Just for curiosity sake, in a world where you flip Pac at the draft pretty much upon acquiring him/a three way deal were to happen what would Canes fans think then.

Just an outline for an example:

Canes acquires:
#3, #15

Montreal acquires:
#2

Florida acquires:
Max Pacioretty

Now obviously more could/probably would be added but those are the main pieces. Would Carolina do it or would they rather #2 and draft Svech? I'm really just curious because personally I would take #3 and #15 but that's looking at it from a Habs POV and we have quite a few holes to fill with a roster overhaul.

Again, for me as someone that has no horse in the race I still don't see the value in that type of swap for the Canes.

In my opinion I see Svech as a guy who could be a borderline superstar throughout his career. I don't see the same from Zadina, but I do think he could be a good 1st line player. Although it's just 1 spot in the draft, I think the tier there is much bigger than the tier between 3-7.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Again, for me as someone that has no horse in the race I still don't see the value in that type of swap for the Canes.

In my opinion I see Svech as a guy who could be a borderline superstar throughout his career. I don't see the same from Zadina, but I do think he could be a good 1st line player. Although it's just 1 spot in the draft, I think the tier there is much bigger than the tier between 3-7.

I don't think you understand the term " superstar" if you don't even see Svech into a real superstar.
but let me guess, Nylander and Marner are superstars for you, right ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Exactly this. You might, or might not be right. We just can't know.

The opinion of how good Svechnikov vs Zadina is from the Canes or another other team don't matter to the Habs. Takes two side to negotiate a deal and when one side says no, we have no deal. Habs need to use our draft position, 2nd round picks, and Patch to acquire a center. This proposal does nothing for us in that regard.

Send the memo out on HF boards.... If you want Patch, Habs get a grade A prospect at center in return (one way or another). Otherwise, don't bother. We will keep him before we trade him for cheap. Bench mark (low point) for a Patch return is the Lucic trade from the Bruins to the Kings. Something very similar to that.

 

[PriceIsGod]

Again, for me as someone that has no horse in the race I still don't see the value in that type of swap for the Canes.

In my opinion I see Svech as a guy who could be a borderline superstar throughout his career. I don't see the same from Zadina, but I do think he could be a fantastic player. Although it's just 1 spot in the draft, I think the tier there is much bigger than the tier between 3-7.

Thanks for your opinion! I know some fans may give you a hard time for viewing values differently but I respect it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, for me as someone that has no horse in the race I still don't see the value in that type of swap for the Canes.

In my opinion I see Svech as a guy who could be a borderline superstar throughout his career. I don't see the same from Zadina, but I do think he could be a good 1st line player. Although it's just 1 spot in the draft, I think the tier there is much bigger than the tier between 3-7.

Most if not all agree Svechnikov > Zadina. The debate is how much better and it's a good debate IMO. However, Patch is not being used to acquire Svechnikov. Back in the 2016 draft, Juolevi was considered to be much better than Sergachev. Look how that turned out. Habs would be stupid to use Patch to trade up for 1 spot and not even get a grade A prospect at center.

 

[GoldiFox]

Most if not all agree Svechnikov > Zadina. The debate is how much better and it's a good debate IMO. However, Patch is not being used to acquire Svechnikov. Back in the 2016 draft, Juolevi was considered to be much better than Sergachev. Look how that turned out. Habs would be stupid to use Patch to trade up for 1 spot and not even get a grade A prospect at center.

And more importantly - the Canes are perhaps the last team in the league that would pay for a rental LW. Montreal fans should look to teams in their Cup window.

ITT is just Montreal fans selling Pacioretty like a used car salesman. We get it, why are you trying to make that Carolina’s problem? Trade Pacioretty for the 5-6 blue-chip assets he is worth and then come to Carolina with an offer.

 

[Captain Mountain]

it depends on how you rank these prospects.

at the draft Oilers fans would have laughed at Eberle+Puljujarvi for Laine..CBJ fans would have laughed at something similar considering they held the #3OA pick. Now it would be the other way around.
Same goes for McDavid and Eichel+Reinhart.

If there is a clear tier between the 2 players a pending UFA does not move the stick for a rebuilding team.

The only clear tier is Dahlin and the rest based on what draft people say. Everything else is up for some interpretation. Svechnikov is the consensus #2 and Zadina is the consensus #3. Doesn't mean Carolina or Montreal will take them. Like in 2013 when the consensus was Jones at 2 and Barkov at 4. or 2015 when Hanifin was consensus 3. or last year when Vilardi was above Pettersson and Middlestat.

And we of course assume that Svechnikov will be better than Zadina (or both will be better than other guys) much like Bennett and Reinhart are better than Draisaitl. We don't even know that Dahlin will be the best player out of this draft.

If Carolina doesn't do a trade like this, its because they don't need a left hand winger, just like Montreal wouldn't do a Skinner+3rd for 2nd if they won 2nd and Carolina won 3rd in the draft lottery.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I can already tell you that Svech is gonna scores more goals, but Zadina will be a mvp playoff player. He got so much more Grit and passion in him.

He should see a doctor about that.

 

[CanadienShark]

Wow is that ever bad for Montreal. I'm not sure the #2 pick is necessarily clear cut.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

let's keep this discussion civilized. but, I really want to know your classification of "superstar" who would be a superstar from the leafs ?

 

[Morgs]

let's keep this discussion civilized. but, I really want to know your classification of "superstar" who would be a superstar from the leafs ?

Auston Matthews. I consider Nylander/Marner/Rielly to have star upside, but I don't believe they'll ever be considered one of the best 10-20 players in hockey.

In regards to Svech, I see him being in the "elite" tier of prospects, where as Zadina is more of the "very good" type.

 

[Morgs]

Most if not all agree Svechnikov > Zadina. The debate is how much better and it's a good debate IMO. However, Patch is not being used to acquire Svechnikov. Back in the 2016 draft, Juolevi was considered to be much better than Sergachev. Look how that turned out. Habs would be stupid to use Patch to trade up for 1 spot and not even get a grade A prospect at center.

And I completely understand this trade doesn't make sense for the Habs either. It just makes less sense for the Canes because acquiring Patches does nothing for them moving forward and they lose out of the (in my opinion) much much better prospect. I mean, we're talking about the best goal scorer in the OHL since McDavid vs a guy who's PPG is not anything special in the weakest league in the CHL as a guy who's been 18 basically all season.

I had Sergachev, Chychrun, and McAvoy over Juolevi

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Auston Matthews. I consider Nylander/Marner/Rielly to have star upside, but I don't believe they'll ever be considered one of the best 10-20 players in hockey.

In regards to Svech, I see him being in the "elite" tier of prospects, where as Zadina is more of the "very good" type.

I'm sorry, but from what I have seem, read, watch, listen...: zadina and Svech > Marner,Nylander,Rielly.
Sure it can't be proven until he makes at least 2 years, but from pre-draft Zadina and Svech are way better than Marner and Nylander.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

And I completely understand this trade doesn't make sense for the Habs either. It just makes less sense for the Canes because acquiring Patches does nothing for them moving forward and they lose out of the (in my opinion) much much better prospect. I mean, we're talking about the best goal scorer in the OHL since McDavid vs a guy who's PPG is not anything special in the weakest league in the CHL as a guy who's been 18 basically all season.

I had Sergachev, Chychrun, and McAvoy over Juolevi

that's from your POV. Why did the Canuks signed Loui Eriksson then ? 6M 2 years ago is A LOT for Eriksson, wait, is he a sniper type like PAcioretty ( way worse than Pac) ? My point is, you think the team doesn't need this kind of player or that kind of player, but in reality the GMs dont think like you do and they probably have an interest for Pac.

 

[Svechhammer]

Man it I had a dollar for every patches to Carolina proposal on here. For being such a stud you all are absolutely obsessed with shipping him out of town.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And I completely understand this trade doesn't make sense for the Habs either. It just makes less sense for the Canes because acquiring Patches does nothing for them moving forward and they lose out of the (in my opinion) much much better prospect. I mean, we're talking about the best goal scorer in the OHL since McDavid vs a guy who's PPG is not anything special in the weakest league in the CHL as a guy who's been 18 basically all season.

I had Sergachev, Chychrun, and McAvoy over Juolevi

Guess we have to take your word for it . Most did not

 

[Morgs]

I'm sorry, but from what I have seem, read, watch, listen...: zadina and Svech > Marner,Nylander,Rielly.
Sure it can't be proven until he makes at least 2 years, but from pre-draft Zadina and Svech are way better than Marner and Nylander.

Svech is arguably a better prospect than Marner/Nylander. But in no way was Zadina:

Zadina (Draft year, 18 years old):
QMJHL: 57GP - 44G - 38A - 82P (1.43 PPG)

Svechnikov (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL 44GP - 40G - 32A - 72P (1.63 PPG)

Marner (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL: 63GP - 44G - 82A - 126P (2.0 PPG)

Nylander (Draft year, 17 years old):
SHL: 22GP - 1G - 6A - 7P (0.32PPG)
Allsvenskan: 35GP - 15G - 12A - 27P (0.77 PPG)

So not only did he play in the easiest league, but he was also the only one that was 18 years old for the majority of the season. This draft's forward crop is especially weak, so I see why he's in the Top-5, but in 2014/15 he would have been in tough to make the top-10. Just remember, Nylander went ahead of Ehlers(9th OA), and Ehlers had a 1.65PPG season in his draft year.

But besides the point, this is a 2nd for 3rd OA trade.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Svechnikov is A LOT better than Zadina. I would consider it.
Value wise it looks bad but it could be the difference between a 50 point winger and an 80 point star. Who knows?

 

[Morgs]

that's from your POV. Why did the Canuks signed Loui Eriksson then ? 6M 2 years ago is A LOT for Eriksson, wait, is he a sniper type like PAcioretty ( way worse than Pac) ? My point is, you think the team doesn't need this kind of player or that kind of player, but in reality the GMs dont think like you do and they probably have an interest for Pac.

The problem isn't that Patches isn't a good player. The problem is he has 1 year left on a great contract and he's definitely looking to get paid as the 35+ goal scorer he is.

That kind of player will not get paid by Carolina, so them getting a guy in their last year of a contract, with basically no chance of re-signing him, and them not being a "real" stanley cup contender is just silly.

Best case scenario they trade him for a late 1st + prospect at the deadline? Sounds like a loss when you consider Svech to be a far superior prospect to Zadina.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

The problem isn't that Patches isn't a good player. The problem is he has 1 year left on a great contract and he's definitely looking to get paid as the 35+ goal scorer he is.

That kind of player will not get paid by Carolina, so them getting a guy in their last year of a contract, with basically no chance of re-signing him, and them not being a "real" stanley cup contender is just silly.

Best case scenario they trade him for a late 1st + prospect at the deadline? Sounds like a loss when you consider Svech to be a far superior prospect to Zadina.

Again, Svech is not a far superior prospect, he is slightly better but nothing more.

 

[MattMartin]

As a complete outsider with no dog in the fight....I like it.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Svech is arguably a better prospect than Marner/Nylander. But in no way was Zadina:

Zadina (Draft year, 18 years old):
QMJHL: 57GP - 44G - 38A - 82P (1.43 PPG)

Svechnikov (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL 44GP - 40G - 32A - 72P (1.63 PPG)

Marner (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL: 63GP - 44G - 82A - 126P (2.0 PPG)

Nylander (Draft year, 17 years old):
SHL: 22GP - 1G - 6A - 7P (0.32PPG)
Allsvenskan: 35GP - 15G - 12A - 27P (0.77 PPG)

So not only did he play in the easiest league, but he was also the only one that was 18 years old for the majority of the season. This draft's forward crop is especially weak, so I see why he's in the Top-5, but in 2014/15 he would have been in tough to make the top-10. Just remember, Nylander went ahead of Ehlers(9th OA), and Ehlers had a 1.65PPG season in his draft year.

But besides the point, this is a 2nd for 3rd OA trade.

you really gotta enlighten me on how the QMJHL is the easiest league to play in Canada.

By the way, Nylander went a head because of his World performance.
Speed wise I would put Marner and Nylander over Zadina, but he is clearly the better goals scorer between the "almost a star" players. Also, did we watch the same Zadina at Worlds ? he proved why he will be drafted third.

 

[93LEAFS]

Works for Carolina, but I can't see them wanting to pay Pacioretty what he's asking for. So, you would have to think the value of trading Pacioretty as a rental is worth moving down a spot. He probably gets a decent prospect, a late 1st and maybe a small ad like a 3rd.