Proposal: #2 OA (Svechnikov) for Pacioretty + #3OA

[93LEAFS]

you really gotta enlighten me on how the QMJHL is the easiest league to play in Canada.

Scoring in the QMJHL has the lowest transfer rate to NHL success. There's a reason when trying to balance out junior scoring the QMJHL tends to have an equivalent of .95 and the OHL tends to have on of 1.1.

Zadina isn't a better prospect than Marner was at his draft date. He is ahead of Nylander though.

I don't think we can use Ehlers as a proxy for Zadina either. I mean Virtanen averaged about a ppg in the WHL and went ahead of both.

 

[GoldiFox]

I haven’t seen any outlet’s final Draft rankings with Svechnikov at #3. I have seen one or two with him at #1 above Dahlin. Bob McKenzie’s rankings have 9/10 NHL scouts with Svechnikov at #2.

Svechnikov scored even strength goals at a higher rate than McDavid. He plays a fully matured NHL Power Forward game at 18 years old and is NHL ready. The Canes can’t afford to pass that up in a Metro division full of Superstar talent.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Forward Scoring Position	Mean Extrapolated Points (Playoff Teams)	Carolina Extrapolated Points	Net
1	89	68	-21
2	75	64	-11
3	65	51	-14
4	52	49	-3
5	47	48	1
6	42	44	2
7	39	39	0
8	33	36	3
9	28	31	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If not clear, this chart lists out the extrapolated (82 games) RS point average for the 16 playoff teams at each forward scoring position (1-9) and how Carolina compares.

I'm bullish on both Aho and Necas, but 2OA probably represents Carolina's best chance at getting that top dog that the team lacks up front. Passing on Svechnikov, if the view internally is that he's a superior prospect, for the purpose of chasing value would be a long-term mistake.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I haven’t seen any outlet’s final Draft rankings with Svechnikov at #3. I have seen one or two with him at #1 above Dahlin. Bob McKenzie’s rankings have 9/10 NHL scouts with Svechnikov at #2.

Svechnikov scored even strength goals at a higher rate than McDavid. He plays a fully matured NHL Power Forward game at 18 years old and is NHL ready. The Canes can’t afford to pass that up in a Metro division full of Superstar talent.

What is the Mckenzie ranking dated to? I've been waiting for a updated ranking from him. Last I saw was a mid season ranking

 

[The Great Weal]

Awful for the Habs even though Svech is substantially better than Zadina.

 

[GoldiFox]

What is the Mckenzie ranking dated to? I've been waiting for a updated ranking from him. Last I saw was a mid season ranking

Lottery rankings. April 27.

https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

Should clear things up if you missed it:

If anything, Barrie Colt winger Svechnikov seems to have solidified his position as the consensus No. 2 pick in the draft. Nine of 10 scouts surveyed this week had him at No. 2. In January, the same panel of scouts gave him only six second-place votes.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lottery rankings. April 27.

https://www.tsn.ca/the-big-four-solidify-spots-in-tsn-draft-ranking-1.1066345

Should clear things up if you missed it:

Thanks. I for sure missed this and I was traveling for work overseas so that's my excuse

As far as Svechnikov vs Zadina. Edge to Svechnikov but my gap is smaller than most but I am a Mooseheads fan too. I have watched Zadina all year and I think his play making skills are underrated.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

if you compare... Zadina was really better with the moose than Hischier was... well that is my pov. and Hischier will be a superstar in the league

 

[habsfan44]

pacioretty is grossly underrated on hfboards

Don't worry , that will change when/if he's traded .

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Id do it, and then flip Patches. Don't really need or want him

 

[HuGo Sham]

yes no?

diff between 2 and 3 is NOT pacioretty. ridiculous. habs could do much better

 

[HOPE]

pacioretty is grossly, underrated on hfboards

thing is Complimentary, not matter how good they are at what they do, they aren't sexy players. Pacioretty is the pure definition of complimentary winger, Strong defensive game and elite shooter. He does not drive the play, beside on the counter rush where its the only time he creates on his own. South-north player. They are extremely useless in a team specially when you have good playmaker. People tend to think he's a playoff choker when in reality, all his Center choked or weren't talented enough to step up in post season. he just played how he played, Good defensively but puck weren't coming his way!

 

[dogbazinho]

Personally, I don't think you take the chance if you like the guy at # 2 more than the guy at # 3. Chances are one of these guys is a franchise player and if you think that guy is the guy going at number 2 then it's not worth a complimentary player to step away.

 

[ole ole]

yes no?

Easy NO from the Habs.

 

[ole ole]

Then MTL should be tickled pink to draft Zadina and keep Pacioretty. CAR will be very happy with Svechnikov, and thanks for playing.

I will be tickled pink as long as MB. draft Zadina. I really believe he turns to be just as good if not better than Svechnikov.

 

[ole ole]

Svech is arguably a better prospect than Marner/Nylander. But in no way was Zadina:

Zadina (Draft year, 18 years old):
QMJHL: 57GP - 44G - 38A - 82P (1.43 PPG)

Svechnikov (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL 44GP - 40G - 32A - 72P (1.63 PPG)

Marner (Draft year, 17 years old):
OHL: 63GP - 44G - 82A - 126P (2.0 PPG)

Nylander (Draft year, 17 years old):
SHL: 22GP - 1G - 6A - 7P (0.32PPG)
Allsvenskan: 35GP - 15G - 12A - 27P (0.77 PPG)

So not only did he play in the easiest league, but he was also the only one that was 18 years old for the majority of the season. This draft's forward crop is especially weak, so I see why he's in the Top-5, but in 2014/15 he would have been in tough to make the top-10. Just remember, Nylander went ahead of Ehlers(9th OA), and Ehlers had a 1.65PPG season in his draft year.

But besides the point, this is a 2nd for 3rd OA trade.

Easiest league. Ask Hamilton,Regina, and Swift Current how easy it was playing against a team from the easiest league.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don’t undervalue Patches. Would love to stick him on Necas’ wing, if a deal outside of the 2OA could be worked.

He has a solid 2 way game and provides valuable veteran presence on the team as we get younger.

 

[phlocky]

I'm gonna explain just how bad this is. Most people have as pretty close to a coin flip for whom goes 2 and 3, that's how close they are. Svec has a higher upside potential but Zad is viewed as being safer to NOT fall short of the projections for them. Patches is worth a 1st + (the plus depends upon how high the first is). When 2 players are considered that close in the draft you don't throw the other team another first just to make certain you get the guy you prefer. You take whichever one is left and add another very good prospect with your 2nd first.

This would be like the Flyers last year adding Simmonds just for us to move up to #1. Both Hirs and Patrick were neck and neck and we were happy to take whichever one was left and keep Simmonds.

You just don't pay that much to move up one spot when 2 players are this close. Keep your own assets and be happy with whichever is left. For the Canes, they should take this deal and run away laughing their butts off

 

[Deam78]

I'm gonna explain just how bad this is. Most people have as pretty close to a coin flip for whom goes 2 and 3, that's how close they are. Svec has a higher upside potential but Zad is viewed as being safer to NOT fall short of the projections for them. Patches is worth a 1st + (the plus depends upon how high the first is). When 2 players are considered that close in the draft you don't throw the other team another first just to make certain you get the guy you prefer. You take whichever one is left and add another very good prospect with your 2nd first.

This would be like the Flyers last year adding Simmonds just for us to move up to #1. Both Hirs and Patrick were neck and neck and we were happy to take whichever one was left and keep Simmonds.

You just don't pay that much to move up one spot when 2 players are this close. Keep your own assets and be happy with whichever is left. For the Canes, they should take this deal and run away laughing their butts off

This. This. This. So refreshing to see some common sense send the Habs way. Thanks.

 

[phlocky]

This. This. This. So refreshing to see some common sense send the Habs way. Thanks.

You are welcome

 

[GoldiFox]

I'm gonna explain just how bad this is. Most people have as pretty close to a coin flip for whom goes 2 and 3, that's how close they are. Svec has a higher upside potential but Zad is viewed as being safer to NOT fall short of the projections for them. Patches is worth a 1st + (the plus depends upon how high the first is). When 2 players are considered that close in the draft you don't throw the other team another first just to make certain you get the guy you prefer. You take whichever one is left and add another very good prospect with your 2nd first.

This would be like the Flyers last year adding Simmonds just for us to move up to #1. Both Hirs and Patrick were neck and neck and we were happy to take whichever one was left and keep Simmonds.

You just don't pay that much to move up one spot when 2 players are this close. Keep your own assets and be happy with whichever is left. For the Canes, they should take this deal and run away laughing their butts off

“Most people have pretty close to a coin flip for whom goes 2 and 3”

Meanwhile, I haven’t seen one single source which has Zadina at #2 in their Final Rankings. Actual NHL scouts polled by Bob McKenzie 9/10 have Svechnikov at #2.

I’m not sure you know what a coin flip is.

 

[Neutrinos]

It's not just #3 & Pacioretty for #2

It's #3 & Pacioretty for #2 + 4.5 million in additional cap space

So depending on what could be done with that cap space, it may be something to consider if you're Montreal - especially if they've ruled out signing Pacioretty to an extension