Post-Game Talk: 2/24/16 - the night the puns died. Boston - 5, Kunitz lack of accountability - 1

[UnderratedBrooks44]

That's the worse thing that could happen to the pens and it probably will happen, two wins against two of the bottom feeders and the pens management think they are cup contenders. Face reality, there is no way absent monumental injuries that the pens can compete againstNYR, Caps, Bruins, Dal, Chi and the kings, the rest there is 50/50 chance they win a series. Thanks to Shero's sins of the past this team is effed. It JR goes out and gets rentals and makes a SD like trade, just forget about next season also. Stand Pat for once. .

I've said it before and hey, I could certainly be wrong, but I really don't think JR has any illusions about this team. Now if there were a couple of really ballsy moves available would he make them? He might, he might not, but I don't think there are deals to be made out there that would even be enticing enough for him to pull the trigger on. Plus we'd have to trade some money back to another team to make huge deals work anyways. All in all I don't think they have a choice but to mostly stay the course.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Need several top-6 wingers? Check.

Need to revamp the blueline? Check.

Still has a coach misusing problem players? Check.

The names have changed, but it's still the same team, bud.

Is "misuse" the new company line around here? They lack depth regardless. I think Sullivan's all right, nothing amazing, but I think maybe people have just gone too long without criticizing the coaches?

I mean what? Take Kunitz off and replace him with Wilson? Does anyone honestly think that's going to make a difference? Maybe he wants Kessel on another line to give the other lines any chance in hell of scoring? I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong but there's more than one philosophy when composing lines. People act like they have scoring depth and they don't.

 

[pistolpete11]

Need several top-6 wingers? Check.

Need to revamp the blueline? Check.

Still has a coach misusing problem players? Check.

The names have changed, but it's still the same team, bud.

Well I don't agree with your assessment, but anyways some similarities =/= exactly at the same spot.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Is "misuse" the new company line around here? They lack depth regardless. I think Sullivan's all right, nothing amazing, but I think maybe people have just gone too long without criticizing the coaches?

I mean what? Take Kunitz off and replace him with Wilson? Does anyone honestly think that's going to make a difference? Maybe he wants Kessel on another line to give the other lines any chance in hell of scoring? I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong but there's more than one philosophy when composing lines. People act like they have scoring depth and they don't.

Yeah. I do. Wilson moves his feet and plays with desperation. He might not score a ton of points, but he'll work his ass off. That's more than can be said of Kunitz since before the last Olympics.

Well I don't agree with your assessment, but anyways some similarities =/= exactly at the same spot.

Whatever. Semantics. The point is that we were crashing and burning when Shero left, and now we're simply burning. Hooray, progress.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Coach, go to sleep man.

 

[IcedCapp]

I read your other posts as well. I feel your pain. I was wondering if he'd change his game being surrounded by Crosby and Malkin and put up 40. Seems like the same old Phil.

It's amazing how often Toronto fans show up after a loss to make some Kessel comment.

No one cares what you think of Kessel. No one cares about your opinion of him. No one cares what you think he needs to do or not do. You'd think being the laughing stock of every league would teach Toronto fans some humility.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Need several top-6 wingers? Check.

Need to revamp the blueline? Check.

Still has a coach misusing problem players? Check.

The names have changed, but it's still the same team, bud.

The only glaring misuse of a player that I see is Kunitz, which has been a problem under the previous two coaches as well. I'm fully confident that no matter who the coach is at this point, Kunitz would still virtually be guaranteed a top 6 spot because he's so damn likable by both coaches and teammates (especially Sid). Only way we remedy this problem is either by shipping him out entirely, or by acquiring a winger of vastly superior quality. If Bennett could actually stay god damn healthy for more than 3 weeks at a time then perhaps we wouldn't even be having this discussion at this point...

I knew it wouldn't take long for people to start jumping on the "Hate on Sullivan" bandwagon once our injury issues finally started to catch up with us, however I'm nowhere near jumping on it just yet. I personally like the mentality that he's been actively instilling into this team, as well as the emergence of an identity that is build on speed and tenacity. It's a hell of a lot better than the identity we were going after before, which was NONE at all.

 

[Shady Machine]

Looks like I missed a fun game. Watching the highlights, the Pens gave them several of the goals.

Maatta passes right to Pastrnak - goal.
Maatta tries to bat a puck out of mid air at the blueline while standing still and whiffs - goal

Letang for some odd reason chases the puck carrier on the 2 on 2 during the criss cross and then gets out of position and Pouliot makes the WORST dive to block a pass on a 2 on 1 I've ever seen - goal.

Seriously Pouliot, that was one of the strangest things I've seen in a while. The guy with the puck wasn't in a particularly dangerous shooting position and Pouliot slides sideways opening up the passing lane. I have no idea what he was doing there.

As for the reactions on here, they are a little over the top to be sure. Most of us don't see this team as a contender, but I think some are downplaying the impact of 3 of your top 5 centers out for several weeks. Missing Geno isn't just about missing Geno. You also have to move Cullen from line 4 to line 2 which weakens line 4. You only compound the issue when you are missing Bonino and Fehr too. That isn't to say that the WBS kids have done poorly, but 6 of them in the lineup for a few weeks is going to catch up with you. Additionally, Crosby has cooled off after a monster stretch. Much like Geno earlier in the year, one guy can only carry a team for so long. Getting Geno back should really help Sid as well.

With some healthy bodies back and 1 LW acquisition, this team could make some noise or they could lose in round 1. That's why they need to be smart about what assets they use to make an acquisition. Don't mortgage the future for now, but when you are in playoff position and have a glaring need, see what you can do on the cheap OR look for hockey trades (my preference).

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The only glaring misuse of a player that I see is Kunitz, which has been a problem under the previous two coaches as well. I'm fully confident that no matter who the coach is at this point, Kunitz would still virtually be guaranteed a top 6 spot because he's so damn likable by both coaches and teammates (especially Sid). Only way we remedy this problem is either by shipping him out entirely, or by acquiring a winger of vastly superior quality. If Bennett could actually stay god damn healthy for more than 3 weeks at a time then perhaps we wouldn't even be having this discussion at this point...

I mean, people keep saying "Kunitz was an issue with Bylsma and Johnston as well" as if it's some kind of mitigating factor. So what? Learn from the mistakes. I think the fact that Kunitz is as entrenched on the top line as ever makes it worse.

I'm not saying we have fantastic depth. I'm just saying Kunitz is a third liner on his absolute best nights playing nearly every shift of every game on Sid's hip--regardless of his play or production.

I agree with you on the remedy thing though. The only way you can prevent a coach from misusing problem players is to get rid of them. I just don't think this organization, from top to bottom, views Kunitz as anything but an integral and valuable player. /shrug That's a huge problem.

 

[Gurglesons]

Looks like I missed a fun game. Watching the highlights, the Pens gave them several of the goals.

Maatta passes right to Pastrnak - goal.
Maatta tries to bat a puck out of mid air at the blueline while standing still and whiffs - goal

Letang for some odd reason chases the puck carrier on the 2 on 2 during the criss cross and then gets out of position and Pouliot makes the WORST dive to block a pass on a 2 on 1 I've ever seen - goal.

Seriously Pouliot, that was one of the strangest things I've seen in a while. The guy with the puck wasn't in a particularly dangerous shooting position and Pouliot slides sideways opening up the passing lane. I have no idea what he was doing there.

Pouliot and Maatta had really rough games, but I mean.. they're still kids, that is going to happen.

I will never understand the consistent madness about how we don't play youth and then when we youth and they make mistakes it is seen as the prospects not living up to their end. Players take time to develop. They are going to have peaks and valleys. Maatta has looked rough this year, but at the same time he hasn't looked like he doesn't belong in a top 4 role as a 21 year old. He also has been recovering from shoulder surgery and probably is nursing an injury from November still. The fact he is playing at all and anywhere near what he has is something we can be happy about and something that we should build on.

 

[Shady Machine]

Pouliot and Maatta had really rough games, but I mean.. they're still kids, that is going to happen.

I will never understand the consistent madness about how we don't play youth and then when we youth and they make mistakes it is seen as the prospects not living up to their end. Players take time to develop. They are going to have peaks and valleys. Maatta has looked rough this year, but at the same time he hasn't looked like he doesn't belong in a top 4 role as a 21 year old. He also has been recovering from shoulder surgery and probably is nursing an injury from November still. The fact he is playing at all and anywhere near what he has is something we can be happy about and something that we should build on.

Oh I agree. I wasn't hating on them. Those kind of mistakes happen with every player. Pouliot's dive was just so strange. I don't really understand what he was doing. As for Maatta, he's still pretty damn good for looking rough. He has 6 goals, 16 points and is a +18. Not bad for a 21 year old kid playing top pairing minutes and has struggled at times. His lateral skating and lack of speed are a concern, but he's still playing as a top 4 defender despite those deficiencies. I just think people are disappointed because we were talking about him as a potential Norris candidate in a few years during his rookie season.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Hahah whoa, when did I become the champion of all things Chris Kunitz!?

He's a third liner playing in a top line role right now.

My bad man. It's Ryan Wilson. You two have the most American names ever I could have sworn it was you.

 

[Shady Machine]

My bad man. It's Ryan Wilson. You two have the most American names ever I could have sworn it was you.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

My bad man. It's Ryan Wilson. You two have the most American names ever I could have sworn it was you.

I thought you meant Ryan Wilson. Mr. Infographics and Graphs to tell you that your eyes are indeed deceiving you, and Kunitz and Lovejoy are great players.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh I agree. I wasn't hating on them. Those kind of mistakes happen with every player. Pouliot's dive was just so strange. I don't really understand what he was doing. As for Maatta, he's still pretty damn good for looking rough. He has 6 goals, 16 points and is a +18. Not bad for a 21 year old kid playing top pairing minutes and has struggled at times. His lateral skating and lack of speed are a concern, but he's still playing as a top 4 defender despite those deficiencies. I just think people are disappointed because we were talking about him as a potential Norris candidate in a few years during his rookie season.

Yeah, that Pouliot play was just insane. I have no idea what he was doing.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Coach, go to sleep man.

Hey, **** you man.

No, you're right. My sleep schedule's ****ed up and I'm trying to fix it. Dammit.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The only glaring misuse of a player that I see is Kunitz, which has been a problem under the previous two coaches as well. I'm fully confident that no matter who the coach is at this point, Kunitz would still virtually be guaranteed a top 6 spot because he's so damn likable by both coaches and teammates (especially Sid). Only way we remedy this problem is either by shipping him out entirely, or by acquiring a winger of vastly superior quality. If Bennett could actually stay god damn healthy for more than 3 weeks at a time then perhaps we wouldn't even be having this discussion at this point...

I knew it wouldn't take long for people to start jumping on the "Hate on Sullivan" bandwagon once our injury issues finally started to catch up with us, however I'm nowhere near jumping on it just yet. I personally like the mentality that he's been actively instilling into this team, as well as the emergence of an identity that is build on speed and tenacity. It's a hell of a lot better than the identity we were going after before, which was NONE at all.

He's also instilling a mentality that if I don't like you, you're never going to play for me. Must be nice to be Sergei Plotnikov right about now. Hopefully, he has discovered Primanti Bros. by now. Otherwise, what a nightmare of an NHL season.

He's also misusing Kevin Porter, Connor Sheary (too small for a fourth-line role), Bryan Rust (too much ice time), and then there's the whole Crosby-Kessel thing. And I have no idea why he didn't stick with Hagelin and Hornqvist together. Those two look like they were born to play together.

Bylsma's system was fast, too. Just because Sullivan undid what Johnston was trying to implement, which was a terrible coaching decision, doesn't mean he's much better.

At least if we still had Johnston we could go in full-blown tank mode.

I mean, people keep saying "Kunitz was an issue with Bylsma and Johnston as well" as if it's some kind of mitigating factor. So what? Learn from the mistakes. I think the fact that Kunitz is as entrenched on the top line as ever makes it worse.

I'm not saying we have fantastic depth. I'm just saying Kunitz is a third liner on his absolute best nights playing nearly every shift of every game on Sid's hip--regardless of his play or production.

I agree with you on the remedy thing though. The only way you can prevent a coach from misusing problem players is to get rid of them. I just don't think this organization, from top to bottom, views Kunitz as anything but an integral and valuable player. /shrug That's a huge problem.

I don't think Rutherford thinks Kunitz is integral. He TRIED to trade him (twice, from what some reports suggest). Rutherford wasn't the one who gave Kunitz a modified NTC or whatever it is he has in his contract.

At the same token, a GM must do right by his coach. Sullivan is the one who hasn't moved Kunitz off the top line since he was hired. Johnston moved him plenty.

 

[Terrapin]

When healthy, you don't think the bottom 6 is better than when Shero left?
You don't consider JR getting rid of Scuderi and Perron as getting rid of problem players?

Shero's last year or two the bottom six was horrid. Prior to that he always put together great bottom six lines.

On paper, if/when healthy and used correctly, our bottom 6 should have been light years better than this year:

Comeau-Sutter-Spaling/Bennett
Winnik-Goc/Lapierre-Downie/Sill/Farnham/etc

Of course Adams was a permanent fixture.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

What were the alleged Kunitz moves that ol' Earneditz nixed anyway? Kessel? Something else?

 

[Gurglesons]

Shero's last year or two the bottom six was horrid. Prior to that he always put together great bottom six lines.

On paper, if/when healthy and used correctly, our bottom 6 should have been light years better than this year:

Comeau-Sutter-Spaling/Bennett
Winnik-Goc/Lapierre-Downie/Sill/Farnham/etc

Of course Adams was a permanent fixture.

I'll never understand how 2013 was a terrible bottom six. The revisionist history of that team on here is absolutely ridiculous.

Morrow - Jokinen - Bennett
Cooke - Sutter - Adams

Only play that shouldn't have been there was Adams.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Look I'm as negative as anyone, but you can't outright dismiss missing Geno for 10 games. No team should be crippled by missing Bones and Fehr, but any team would suffer losing a top 5 center in the world.

5-4-1 without Geno is literally average, but I'd have gladly accepted that record if you told me Geno would be out 10 games.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I'll never understand how 2013 was a terrible bottom six. The revisionist history of that team on here is absolutely ridiculous.

Morrow - Jokinen - Bennett
Cooke - Sutter - Adams

Only play that shouldn't have been there was Adams.

Bennett was benched for the mighty Glass.

 

[Jacob]

The bottom 6 in 2013 could've been good, if Glass, a broken Morrow & Adams hadn't gotten priority over Kennedy, Vitale, Jokinen & Bennett.

Sutter was pretty ****** that year too. Like really worn down and losing even more of those 50/50 pucks than usual. He probably should've sat in favor of Jokinen or Vitale.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Kunitz is not the problem, only a symptom of a much bigger problem.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Look I'm as negative as anyone, but you can't outright dismiss missing Geno for 10 games. No team should be crippled by missing Bones and Fehr, but any team would suffer losing a top 5 center in the world.

5-4-1 without Geno is literally average, but I'd have gladly accepted that record if you told me Geno would be out 10 games.

I said it a page or two ago as well (I love when my most sensible posts get ignored btw. Never fails). I don't know why people thought this outcome was out of the realm of possibilities.