GDT: 2/2/15 "Effort? What's That?" - Panthers vs. Rangers

[vendetta]

I'll admit this. We're so improved this year that we're in purgatory. Just sitting in the middle, waiting, hoping for something to come along in the draft, but nothing comes of it. Like always.

So we can't improve from within? Our 18-22 year old players won't get better? I don't understand your train of thought

 

[Android 16]

Man there are so many days where thoughts go trough your head what if, what could have been if we drafted RyJo instead of Guddy etc.

You'll drive yourself insane. What if we picked Ryjo/Tarasenko instead of Gud/Bjugstad/Howden. Like I said, insane..

 

[MPGA]

Man there are so many days where thoughts go trough your head what if, what could have been if we drafted RyJo instead of Guddy etc.

To be fair, Gubranski is turning into a good D-man. Johansen is the better player now, but who knows how their careers will turn out. At least we didn't draft a complete bust.

 

[Big Bjugs]

Man there are so many days where thoughts go trough your head what if, what could have been if we drafted RyJo instead of Guddy etc.

But guess what? Here we are. Sucking as usual. *insert excuse here* for every prospect that is suppose to change the foundation of this team.

 

[Big Bjugs]

So we can't improve from within? Our 18-22 year old players won't get better? I don't understand your train of thought

Oh forgive me. I'm just spouting out the mouth SINCE OUR ONE AND ONLY STANLEY CUP ****ING FINAL. But hey. All is good. We'll stand pat and let the 1st round draft picks do the talking... ya know the ones SINCE THE STANLEY CUP ****ING FINAL.

 

[Brokin]

Bjugstad has 4 goals in his last 21 games.

Hes not gonna score more then 20-25 a season if he is this streaky every year.

Maybe that contract wasn't such a bargain. Lots of bad decisions with the puck tonight. He has never been a guy who can distribute. After a while teams learn how to defend a one dimensional player. Has to learn to use his linemates better and you could say the same about Hayes who also has a shoot first mentality. They did have Pirri taking some draws on that line and he is the only one who really has distribution skills, but he also has the most lethal shot on the team. I think it's just a matter of the coaches working with them to create better chemistry, and that could take more time than this season holds.

Having a small center and two big wingers has worked well for the Bruins. Naw, the puppetmaster would never go for that as you have to big down the middle.

 

[FrolikFan67]

the thinking here does get a little ridiculous with our prospects. just draft high a bunch of times and wait like what? 5-7 years? because after all we need to wait till they mature. its fine to draft the core. we drafted out top-2 centers and our cornerstone D. but its time to, for once, go out and make this team better. no just sitting around every year hoping for the prospects to gradually progress. this is the approach he have always taken and when has it ever worked? for a fan base of such mediocrity id assume most would be screaming for improvement.

keep bjugstad, barkov, and ekblad (and luongo), but everything else should be on the table. huberdeau, kulikov, gudbranson, 1st rounders, prospects, etc. we can't have the oilers mindset. hopefully we're a little more aggressive in the offseason in pursuit of filling our remaining needs. yes we're trending upwards, but theres still holes to fill. like a legit scoring winger, and a longterm partner for ekblad.

 

[Big Bjugs]

the thinking here does get a little ridiculous with our prospects. just draft high a bunch of times and wait like what? 5-7 years? because after all we need to wait till they mature. its fine to draft the core. we drafted out top-2 centers and our cornerstone D. but its time to, for once, go out and make this team better. no just sitting around every year hoping for the prospects to gradually progress. this is the approach he have always taken and when has it ever worked? for a fan base of such mediocrity id assume most would be screaming for improvement.

keep bjugstad, barkov, and ekblad (and luongo), but everything else should be on the table. huberdeau, kulikov, gudbranson, 1st rounders, prospects, etc. we can't have the oilers mindset. hopefully we're a little more aggressive in the offseason in pursuit of filling our remaining needs. yes we're trending upwards, but theres still holes to fill. like a legit scoring winger, and a longterm partner for ekblad.

Exactly. Though I'm sure DT gets a new 5yr plan and we restart over until the new GM shows up, but he does the same thing and we just keep piling up draft pick after draft pick and do the same. Regardless of the owner, or the standings, or the progress of our rookies.

It never worked then, how the **** can it work now?

 

[vendetta]

the thinking here does get a little ridiculous with our prospects. just draft high a bunch of times and wait like what? 5-7 years? because after all we need to wait till they mature. its fine to draft the core. we drafted out top-2 centers and our cornerstone D. but its time to, for once, go out and make this team better. no just sitting around every year hoping for the prospects to gradually progress. this is the approach he have always taken and when has it ever worked? for a fan base of such mediocrity id assume most would be screaming for improvement.

keep bjugstad, barkov, and ekblad (and luongo), but everything else should be on the table. huberdeau, kulikov, gudbranson, 1st rounders, prospects, etc. we can't have the oilers mindset. hopefully we're a little more aggressive in the offseason in pursuit of filling our remaining needs. yes we're trending upwards, but theres still holes to fill. like a legit scoring winger, and a longterm partner for ekblad.

U guys keep saying this... it's such ********! legit scoring wingers r rarely available. .. u act like Tallon refuses to go out and get one... we don't have the depth or pieces to acquire one with dismantling the future... how do none of u understand this yet? We don't have a ton of prospects and even fewer elite blue chippers... y trade guds and kuli now that they r finally playing good consistent top4 hockey? now is not the time to acquire a top scorer... until our core developed and becomes more consistent and can take us to playoffs themselves were not gonna b acquiring a legit goal scorer... so unless u have an example of who we can acquire just stop with this ****...

 

[vendetta]

Exactly. Though I'm sure DT gets a new 5yr plan and we restart over until the new GM shows up, but he does the same thing and we just keep piling up draft pick after draft pick and do the same. Regardless of the owner, or the standings, or the progress of our rookies.

It never worked then, how the **** can it work now?

Our prospects aren't being rushed for once and have solid veterans to show them how to be pros... unlike years past...u can't build a winning team through free agency and trade without having the main core already in place and succeeding... now we're not far off from that... to acquire such players now would waste the last 5 years and put us right back to square 1...

 

[Brokin]

Our prospects aren't being rushed for once and have solid veterans to show them how to be pros... unlike years past...u can't build a winning team through free agency and trade without having the main core already in place and succeeding... now we're not far off from that... to acquire such players now would waste the last 5 years and put us right back to square 1...

Amen.

 

[I am not exposed]

vendetta speaks the most sense in this thread.

 

[Big Bjugs]

Our prospects aren't being rushed for once and have solid veterans to show them how to be pros... unlike years past...u can't build a winning team through free agency and trade without having the main core already in place and succeeding... now we're not far off from that... to acquire such players now would waste the last 5 years and put us right back to square 1...

Don't let Bollands 2pts distract you. For the price of 5.5 and Jokinen we could have brought in real talent. Ex. Vanek, Moulson, Cammalleri etc... We have enough character. Those characters we are still paying for, Kuba, Jovo, Versteeg.

If we stand pat, we become/stay/already are the Leafs and Oilers.

 

[Pantherfan12]

Losing is not a silver lining... this team needs to win not tank... it is far more important to improve on last season than getting a few picks higher in the draft... a jump from 2nd last to 9th or 10th is huge and exactly what this team needs... your telling me another year of experience for the young core can't get us 3-5 more wins and a playoff spot nextyear? I'm sick of the tank talk... it just a losers mentality that will keep this team in the basement... it's time for them to start showing some progression and they r doing just that and It is a damn good thing... everyone expecting playoffs this year was just unrealistic and u do it to yourselfs... again at the start of the year I was hoping for progression attend attend .500 team with a shot at the playoffs.. I wanted to watch the core develope and get better and show signs.. they r doing that and I am pleased...

I have to disagree with you on certain points. Going from 2nd to last to 9th or 10th does nothing positive for moral. Either way, the team wasn't good enough for the post season and its still deflating. When you look back at this season ( although not over yet) you can say that a majority of their losses come from a lack of effort and not lack of skill. I can't imagine the coach somehow making the team feel better about playing golf instead of the playoffs because they finished 10th instead of 14th in the East.
For THIS draft in particular, Yes, I want to tank ( if we're out of the playoff picture) As unfortunate as it is, this franchise is used to being at the bottom of the barrel and not having much to show for it. I love Ekblad, and I love the fact that we drafted him. I love the young guys in our system, and the main core of the roster, but can you really blame the fans of this team for wanting someone like McDavid when he's been compared to the likes of Crosby?? Whether we actually have a shot at him or not, would you not wet your pants if somehow the Panthers drafted him? A player of his caliber (what he's predicted to turn into) is exactly what this franchise has been missing. We're missing a 40+ goal scorer. We have center depth. We have D depth. I love Lu in net. We're missing that pure goal scorer.

What I do agree with is that I really enjoy seeing this team develop. Even if we miss the post season, and McDavid, it was still a very entertaining season. EKblad is a monster. Luongo made some awesome saves. 20 round Shootout victory, and made history doing it. It's going to be fun to see this team turn the corner for real and be a legitimate threat, but I don't think wanting to somehow be fortunate enough to draft high this year is such a bad thing to ask for. I mean I am sure most everyone would rather see this team rally and somehow squeek into the playoffs then tank, but we have to face reality here. This team, in my opinion, has every opportunity to make the post season, they simply do not want it. If they showed up every game, and played 60 min and lost, I'd be okay. ( first half of season). The way they've played lately shows me they don't want it. If this team is giving up, or certain players have given up, and they are out, then I say go out and try to grab another generational talent. This team will not be in the basement anymore and the tank will finally come to a stop. I just dont see the problem with wanting to grab a possible superstar if you're out of the playoff race.

 

[Mogo]

Everyone waiting for the future to come and our players to get better. THEY WONT in this atmosphere this team has around it. A losing culture were the vets are just waitung to retire or praying to be traded. How many times have we waited for Weiss, Horton, Bouw etc etc to become that? Its not this is our first time waiting for the future.

 

[Pantherfan12]

Don't let Bollands 2pts distract you. For the price of 5.5 and Jokinen we could have brought in real talent. Ex. Vanek, Moulson, Cammalleri etc... We have enough character. Those characters we are still paying for, Kuba, Jovo, Versteeg.

If we stand pat, we become/stay/already are the Leafs and Oilers.

The problem with your comment is that you assume Vanek,Moulson,Cammy,etc.. Wanted to come here in the first place. You honestly think Tallon didn't make them offers? You really think he wanted to sign Jokinen and pay 5.5 mil a year for Bolland instead of those guys? He had to fill roster spots and he got players who were available and interested. It sucks but it's the truth. I don't mind Bolland, except for his contract. I think Bolland was brought in because Tallon wanted depth at center and he wanted to make sure there was enough coverage in case Pirri or Vinny wasn't ready.

 

[Big Bjugs]

I have to disagree with you on certain points. Going from 2nd to last to 9th or 10th does nothing positive for moral. Either way, the team wasn't good enough for the post season and its still deflating. When you look back at this season ( although not over yet) you can say that a majority of their losses come from a lack of effort and not lack of skill. I can't imagine the coach somehow making the team feel better about playing golf instead of the playoffs because they finished 10th instead of 14th in the East.
For THIS draft in particular, Yes, I want to tank ( if we're out of the playoff picture) As unfortunate as it is, this franchise is used to being at the bottom of the barrel and not having much to show for it. I love Ekblad, and I love the fact that we drafted him. I love the young guys in our system, and the main core of the roster, but can you really blame the fans of this team for wanting someone like McDavid when he's been compared to the likes of Crosby?? Whether we actually have a shot at him or not, would you not wet your pants if somehow the Panthers drafted him? A player of his caliber (what he's predicted to turn into) is exactly what this franchise has been missing. We're missing a 40+ goal scorer. We have center depth. We have D depth. I love Lu in net. We're missing that pure goal scorer.

What I do agree with is that I really enjoy seeing this team develop. Even if we miss the post season, and McDavid, it was still a very entertaining season. EKblad is a monster. Luongo made some awesome saves. 20 round Shootout victory, and made history doing it. It's going to be fun to see this team turn the corner for real and be a legitimate threat, but I don't think wanting to somehow be fortunate enough to draft high this year is such a bad thing to ask for. I mean I am sure most everyone would rather see this team rally and somehow squeek into the playoffs then tank, but we have to face reality here. This team, in my opinion, has every opportunity to make the post season, they simply do not want it. If they showed up every game, and played 60 min and lost, I'd be okay. ( first half of season). The way they've played lately shows me they don't want it. If this team is giving up, or certain players have given up, and they are out, then I say go out and try to grab another generational talent. This team will not be in the basement anymore and the tank will finally come to a stop. I just dont see the problem with wanting to grab a possible superstar if you're out of the playoff race.

Excuse me for being on my phone because I would bold the part I want to quote, I agree with everything you said other than the team doesn't want it. I know they want it but we just don't have the talent to do it.

 

[Big Bjugs]

The problem with your comment is that you assume Vanek,Moulson,Cammy,etc.. Wanted to come here in the first place. You honestly think Tallon didn't make them offers? You really think he wanted to sign Jokinen and pay 5.5 mil a year for Bolland instead of those guys? He had to fill roster spots and he got players who were available and interested. It sucks but it's the truth. I don't mind Bolland, except for his contract. I think Bolland was brought in because Tallon wanted depth at center and he wanted to make sure there was enough coverage in case Pirri or Vinny wasn't ready.

You know that Vanek or Cammy didn't want to come here? Especially after everyone and their son new Bolland was demanding 5.5? Vanek, Cammy, Jagr, are already part of trade talks.

You can't tell me Bjugs with Cammy and Barkov with Jagr wouldn't do wonders for this team???

 

[Pantherfan12]

Everyone waiting for the future to come and our players to get better. THEY WONT in this atmosphere this team has around it. A losing culture were the vets are just waitung to retire or praying to be traded. How many times have we waited for Weiss, Horton, Bouw etc etc to become that? Its not this is our first time waiting for the future.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say Bjugstad,Barkov, and Ekblad are better than Weiss,Horton, and Bo.
As far as the vets are concerned, not all the vets play that way. Mitchell, Makenzie, Bergy, Thornton, and Luongo don't act like they are waiting to retire. No one is waiting for the future, the future is now. You don't enjoy seeing Ekblad possibly be best 2nd-3rd best rookie Dman AND win the Calder? You don't like seeing how Hubby,Bjugstad, and Barkov are becoming? What about Guds and his big hits? This team does need some work, and they are still in transition and rough around the edges, but I am very happy with the turn out so far.

 

[vendetta]

Don't let Bollands 2pts distract you. For the price of 5.5 and Jokinen we could have brought in real talent. Ex. Vanek, Moulson, Cammalleri etc... We have enough character. Those characters we are still paying for, Kuba, Jovo, Versteeg.

If we stand pat, we become/stay/already are the Leafs and Oilers.

Haha Jesus man... we had no shot at those guys...none, notta zilch

 

[Pantherfan12]

You know that Vanek or Cammy didn't want to come here? Especially after everyone and their son new Bolland was demanding 5.5? Vanek, Cammy, Jagr, are already part of trade talks.

You can't tell me Bjugs with Cammy and Barkov with Jagr wouldn't do wonders for this team???

I'm not saying they did or did not want to come here, what I was addressing was your comment. Your statement makes it seem as though Tallon didn't try to sign those guys and instead preferred to go after Jokinen and overpay Bolland.

I would've loved to see what Cammy,Vanek, and/or Jagr brought to this team over Jokinen and Bolland, but that's not up to me, or us, and it didn't happen.
All I was suggesting was that maybe ( most likely) Tallon made offers to all free agents we wanted, and he brought in the players who wanted to come here.

 

[vendetta]

I have to disagree with you on certain points. Going from 2nd to last to 9th or 10th does nothing positive for moral. Either way, the team wasn't good enough for the post season and its still deflating. When you look back at this season ( although not over yet) you can say that a majority of their losses come from a lack of effort and not lack of skill. I can't imagine the coach somehow making the team feel better about playing golf instead of the playoffs because they finished 10th instead of 14th in the East.
For THIS draft in particular, Yes, I want to tank ( if we're out of the playoff picture) As unfortunate as it is, this franchise is used to being at the bottom of the barrel and not having much to show for it. I love Ekblad, and I love the fact that we drafted him. I love the young guys in our system, and the main core of the roster, but can you really blame the fans of this team for wanting someone like McDavid when he's been compared to the likes of Crosby?? Whether we actually have a shot at him or not, would you not wet your pants if somehow the Panthers drafted him? A player of his caliber (what he's predicted to turn into) is exactly what this franchise has been missing. We're missing a 40+ goal scorer. We have center depth. We have D depth. I love Lu in net. We're missing that pure goal scorer.

What I do agree with is that I really enjoy seeing this team develop. Even if we miss the post season, and McDavid, it was still a very entertaining season. EKblad is a monster. Luongo made some awesome saves. 20 round Shootout victory, and made history doing it. It's going to be fun to see this team turn the corner for real and be a legitimate threat, but I don't think wanting to somehow be fortunate enough to draft high this year is such a bad thing to ask for. I mean I am sure most everyone would rather see this team rally and somehow squeek into the playoffs then tank, but we have to face reality here. This team, in my opinion, has every opportunity to make the post season, they simply do not want it. If they showed up every game, and played 60 min and lost, I'd be okay. ( first half of season). The way they've played lately shows me they don't want it. If this team is giving up, or certain players have given up, and they are out, then I say go out and try to grab another generational talent. This team will not be in the basement anymore and the tank will finally come to a stop. I just dont see the problem with wanting to grab a possible superstar if you're out of the playoff race.

actually yes going from next to last to 9th or 10th has a very positive effect... means team is in most games and competing.. they learn how to win.,shows they r becoming more consistent... if we get to 9th or 10th were just 2-5 more wins from making playoffs... another offseason and year of maturity for the young players can absolutely make up those 2-5 games... but falling all the way back does nothing for them and let's losing sink in even more... they need to see absolutely no feel progress... it's imperative for them and their developemnt

 

[Pantherfan12]

Excuse me for being on my phone because I would bold the part I want to quote, I agree with everything you said other than the team doesn't want it. I know they want it but we just don't have the talent to do it.

It's okay. I'm on my phone as well.
Like I said, from what Ive watched, and I watch all of em, most of those losses came from lackluster play. How many times have we seen this team be down by two, with two minutes left and then rally for the remainder of the game only to come up short. We played Jersey, gave up FOUR shots in two periods and couldn't win? Again, we def need more help and a legit scoring winger, but we've all seen this team come out flat and lose a game by having poor play?
If this team played 60 min and lost, I'm okay with it because they are still raw and growing together. It's another thing when they look lost, make bad plays, skate slow, take bad penalties and seem uninterested.

 

[Big Bjugs]

Haha Jesus man... we had no shot at those guys...none, notta zilch

And you know this how?

Last years trade deadline it was reported DT was going after Bolland hard. From my best friend who's a Leaf fan. I dismissed it the best I could, guess what happened?

Now you tell me we had no shot at guys who are in a worse position than us? Come on man. We got 2 2x Stanley Cup winner in Mitchell and Thornton.

It's no secret, money talks.

 

[Big Bjugs]

It's okay. I'm on my phone as well.
Like I said, from what Ive watched, and I watch all of em, most of those losses came from lackluster play. How many times have we seen this team be down by two, with two minutes left and then rally for the remainder of the game only to come up short. We played Jersey, gave up FOUR shots in two periods and couldn't win? Again, we def need more help and a legit scoring winger, but we've all seen this team come out flat and lose a game by having poor play?
If this team played 60 min and lost, I'm okay with it because they are still raw and growing together. It's another thing when they look lost, make bad plays, skate slow, take bad penalties and seem uninterested.

Alright I get what you're saying. We scored the 1st goal how many times in the last 7 out of 8 losses?

Its so hard to watch a team expecting a win to be given to them when they show no heart. When was the last time this team scratched and clawed there way to victory?