GDT: #2 - 10/7/13 | New York Rangers @ Los Angeles Kings | 10:30 PM - MSG

[broadwayblue]

I usually don't say this but....

Must win?

Ladies and Gentlemen, the bar has been set! Next year it's opening night or bust!!! lol

 

[BroadwayBlues]

****ing Callahan with Boyle and Pyatt. **** BOTH those guys. We need Callahan with Miller and Fast not those two idiots.

IKR? The 3rd and 4th lines are atrocious. I'm sorry, even if they aren't fully ready, I'm sure a couple of talented prospects are better options than Boyle and Pyatt.

This better change as the season blossoms.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Is it confirmed that Fast is the one sitting?

 

[Raspewtin]

Can't wait for this game.

Is it confirmed that Fast is the one sitting?

yes, the Rangers twitter confirmed it.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

So far, I'm not really getting AV's logic. I'm totally fine with the idea that, for now, he's just seeing what he's got, or whatever (though early points end up important later). The thing is, it didn't make any sense to give Boyle and Pyatt 15 minutes a piece in the opener, and also give Nash only 15 minutes. It also didn't make sense to shift a fleet footed kid like Fast with two whales like them all night long, when Dorsett was playing with Miller and Moore. Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett as a FOURTH line, with fourth line minutes would have made sense and Miller, Moore, Fast as a third line would have made sense. Now Callahan returns and he's going to be shifted with Boyle and Pyatt? Which means AV is rolling with Asham, Moore, Dorsett? How on earth are either of those good lines? I hope he changes that within the first 10 minutes and is only starting that way to make sure Callahan is 100%. We also better see a lot more of Nash tonight; both in terms of AV shifting him and in terms of him doing something noticeable. I was extremely down on him last game, but even I know that a star player needs to be in the game and getting looks at the puck in order to get involved in the tempo and start to make things happen.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I have less of a problem with Callahan with Boyle and Pyatt than I have with the makeup of the first line and the defensive pairings.

That first line may be good at creating high-quality scoring chances, but they are awful at getting into a position where they can create such chances. Did they establish controlled possession in the offensive zone 5v5 once versus Phoenix?

And it gets more obvious with each game that Dan Girardi isn't a first pairing defenceman 5v5 outside of Torts' most rigid version of his system where an argument could be made that his shot-blocking qualities actually outweighed the significant deficiencies in his game. This is especially apparent in AV's system which emphasizes controlled breakouts (which I love). How often does Girardi break out of the zone with control (wither a pass or skating the puck out), once a game? He either tries to defer to his partner or chips the puck out.

It gets more obvious with one single game that he's played outside of Torts' system? Unless you want Staal and McDonagh on top, which is kind of stacking the deck and leaving the other pairings a lot less fortified, who is efficient on the right side to play in that spot anyhow?

 

[Blue Blooded]

So far, I'm not really getting AV's logic. I'm totally fine with the idea that, for now, he's just seeing what he's got, or whatever (though early points end up important later). The thing is, it didn't make any sense to give Boyle and Pyatt 15 minutes a piece in the opener, and also give Nash only 15 minutes. It also didn't make sense to shift a fleet footed kid like Fast with two whales like them all night long, when Dorsett was playing with Miller and Moore. Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett as a FOURTH line, with fourth line minutes would have made sense and Miller, Moore, Fast as a third line would have made sense. Now Callahan returns and he's going to be shifted with Boyle and Pyatt? Which means AV is rolling with Asham, Moore, Dorsett? How on earth are either of those good lines? I hope he changes that within the first 10 minutes and is only starting that way to make sure Callahan is 100%. We also better see a lot more of Nash tonight; both in terms of AV shifting him and in terms of him doing something noticeable. I was extremely down on him last game, but even I know that a star player needs to be in the game and getting looks at the puck in order to get involved in the tempo and start to make things happen.

Boyle and Pyatt were basically the only forwards not getting manhandled out there, of course they got to play!

Everyone are so caught up in their biases regarding different players it is as if it doesn't matter how they are contributing on the ice.

Re: Callahan. He has never been a very good 5v5 scorer and played some of his best 5v5 hockey last season with Pyatt and Boyle. I think it could be a solid line. If Callahan scores it is going to be on the PP, and I can guarantee he'll play on the first unit tonight.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I'll tell you what -

I don't think I've ever put this much importance on winning games this early in the season. Something tells me they need to win a game as early as possible to get their confidence otherwise its very possible they could quickly slip to 0-3, 0-5, 1-7, etc... I think they need to split the next two, at the very least.

Hopefully win #1 comes tonight, especially when Henrik is going tonight and prob not tomorrow.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Boyle and Pyatt were basically the only forwards not getting manhandled out there, of course they got to play!

Everyone are so caught up in their biases regarding different players it is as if it doesn't matter how they are contributing on the ice.

Re: Callahan. He has never been a very good 5v5 scorer and played some of his best 5v5 hockey last season with Pyatt and Boyle. I think it could be a solid line. If Callahan scores it is going to be on the PP, and I can guarantee he'll play on the first unit tonight.

Biases? I protect Brian Boyle as much as anyone. But he is what he is. Fourth liner and penalty killer. What exactly were they contributing that you speak of?

As for not getting manhandled, Boyle was knocked over by a few stiff breezes when he had the puck in the offensive zone.

 

[Blue Blooded]

It gets more obvious with one single game that he's played outside of Torts' system? Unless you want Staal and McDonagh on top, which is kind of stacking the deck and leaving the other pairings a lot less fortified, who is efficient on the right side to play in that spot anyhow?

And all of pre-season. And last season where Torts tried to open it up a bit during the reg. season.

McDonagh-Girardi was basically the worst pairing in every pre-season game they played in, and that includes games where half the lineups where filled with AHL journeymen. Constantly stuck in their own zone.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Biases? I protect Brian Boyle as much as anyone. But he is what he is. Fourth liner and penalty killer. What exactly were they contributing that you speak of?

They controlled the puck very well. And while they didn't create more than one high-quality chance, they didn't concede chances against.

They were the only line that won the possession battle that night, and Pyatt especially dominated his matchups.

E: And sorry if you felt singled out, the part about biases includes most of HF. Hell, it includes most of the hockey world as it seems.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

So far, I'm not really getting AV's logic. I'm totally fine with the idea that, for now, he's just seeing what he's got, or whatever (though early points end up important later). The thing is, it didn't make any sense to give Boyle and Pyatt 15 minutes a piece in the opener, and also give Nash only 15 minutes. It also didn't make sense to shift a fleet footed kid like Fast with two whales like them all night long, when Dorsett was playing with Miller and Moore. Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett as a FOURTH line, with fourth line minutes would have made sense and Miller, Moore, Fast as a third line would have made sense. Now Callahan returns and he's going to be shifted with Boyle and Pyatt? Which means AV is rolling with Asham, Moore, Dorsett? How on earth are either of those good lines? I hope he changes that within the first 10 minutes and is only starting that way to make sure Callahan is 100%. We also better see a lot more of Nash tonight; both in terms of AV shifting him and in terms of him doing something noticeable. I was extremely down on him last game, but even I know that a star player needs to be in the game and getting looks at the puck in order to get involved in the tempo and start to make things happen.

I really think AV still is learning his players. Weve had the opportunity to watch most of these guys for seasons on end and we know what they amount to. Other than Pyatt who has he seen?

I agree with you though about the lines, Cally and Nash. I also wouldnt mind seeing that second line split up because despite their chances I dont think they are finishers. But is it time to switch things up or try to stick with at least 2 set lines just to get some sort of chemistry going? We'll see i guess.

We all got on Torts for switching things up so much and I have a feeeling we will be complaining about AV sticking with things too long because we know his players better then he does.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

And all of pre-season. And last season where Torts tried to open it up a bit during the reg. season.

McDonagh-Girardi was basically the worst pairing in every pre-season game they played in, and that includes games where half the lineups where filled with AHL journeymen. Constantly stuck in their own zone.

So, let me get this straight: Criticize Rick Nash's pre-season = blasphemy.

Use it to say Dan Girardi has proven this year he's not a top pairing stay at home = totally legitimate.

I'm not saying Girardi is anything he's not. But he's clearly out best defensive option on the right side. Unless you're going to put Staal up there (in my opinion we're better off with two great LH anchors for two pairings that can each play 20+ minutes) on his off-side, who realistically is playing the right side. Girardi, like Boyle, is what he is. He's a stay at home guy who gives you pretty solid defense. He doesn't have a strong first pass or puck moving ability. He shouldn't be seeing PP time (don't get it). He's clearly the best option we have on the right side.

EDIT: also, not saying you specifically about the pre-season judgement things. Just the way things are on this board. Point to the pre-season to criticize one player and it's not kosher. Turn around and use it to crucify another and nobody blinks.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I really think AV still is learning his players. Weve had the opportunity to watch most of these guys for seasons on end and we know what they amount to. Other than Pyatt who has he seen?

I agree with you though about the lines, Cally and Nash. I also wouldnt mind seeing that second line split up because despite their chances I dont think they are finishers. But is it time to switch things up or try to stick with at least 2 set lines just to get some sort of chemistry going? We'll see i guess.

We all got on Torts for switching things up so much and I have a feeeling we will be complaining about AV sticking with things too long because we know his players better then he does.

I agree, for the most part. I think I like the idea that's been mentioned about AV wanting to stick with pairs though. Keep Brass and Zucc. Put Cally on the wing with them. Put Pouliot with Moore and Pyatt. Play Boyle, Asham and Dorsett as your fourth line. For example. Keep the first line intact. Keep Brass/Zucc intact. Get Cally into the top six now that he's back. Juggle around with the bottom guys to see who goes where.

 

[I Am Chariot]

My fantasy team Kings galore. But you know I gotta say LETS GO RANGERS!!!!

Here is to a 4-2 win. Nash with the 2 goal 2 assists, Steps and McDevastation

Too bad no more Dubi, could always count on him and Richards fighting

 

[Blue Blooded]

So, let me get this straight: Criticize Rick Nash's pre-season = blasphemy.

Use it to say Dan Girardi has proven this year he's not a top pairing stay at home = totally legitimate.

I'm not saying Girardi is anything he's not. But he's clearly out best defensive option on the right side. Unless you're going to put Staal up there (in my opinion we're better off with two great LH anchors for two pairings that can each play 20+ minutes) on his off-side, who realistically is playing the right side. Girardi, like Boyle, is what he is. He's a stay at home guy who gives you pretty solid defense. He doesn't have a strong first pass or puck moving ability. He shouldn't be seeing PP time (don't get it). He's clearly the best option we have on the right side.

I'm saying that it is incredibly harmful to have a guy who plays the puck as badly as Girardi does for ~20 5v5 minutes a game regardless of how well he plays defence.

I'd put Strålman on the first pairing with McDonagh as he was by far our best PMD last season, this pre-season and in the game vs Phoenix. He showed this past season that he can handle top matchups as Torts put him with McDonagh after Staal's injury and they were fantastic together.

McD-Strålman
Staal-G
MDZ-Moore

Nash was awful in the pre-season, but he wasn't put into a position to succeed either. When he has been successful he has always been playing with a player that can create space and set up possession in the offensive zone (Vyborny, Huselius, Voracek, Hagelin). AV has yet to realize it as it seems. Just look at Nash's 10-11 vs 11-12 seasons. 10-11 was one of his best seasons in his career and he posted dominant 5v5 scoring numbers. Then Columbus traded Voracek and Nash looked completely lost because they didn't have a proper replacement.

Now Hagelin is currently injured, but the Ranger that has shown the most similar skillset in Mats Zuccarello hasn't been paired with Nash in his absence.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I agree, for the most part. I think I like the idea that's been mentioned about AV wanting to stick with pairs though. Keep Brass and Zucc. Put Cally on the wing with them. Put Pouliot with Moore and Pyatt. Play Boyle, Asham and Dorsett as your fourth line. For example. Keep the first line intact. Keep Brass/Zucc intact. Get Cally into the top six now that he's back. Juggle around with the bottom guys to see who goes where.

I could see that. I could also see them easing Cally back into things the first two games out of the top 6 (but shouldn't the same be said for Step considering all of his time off?)

I think this team looks a lot different when Hags comes back. I think he really changes the dynamic of the team. I really like the idea of Boyle - Moore - Dorsett because thats a very good 4th line - but for now you are right. I'd rather have Moore centering the 3rd line over Boyle. Moore is more dynamic and fits into AVs system better. Hes around the net and is quicker on the puck. Once Hags comes back i'd slide Richards down to center the third and put Hags back with Step and Nash.

I would even try this tonight or tomorrow. I think Cally and Moore would work well together.

Richards - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello
Pyatt/Fast - Moore - Callahan
Asham - Boyle - Dorsett

Would rather have Miller instead in Pyatts spot, but its a numbers game. I hate having to insert Pyatt every time I make lines. Its good depth to have but he just doesnt fit on this team IMO.

What you said:

Richards - Stepan - Nash
Callahan - Brassard - Zuccarello
Pyatt - Moore - Pouliot
Asham - Boyle - Dorsett

Can Cally and Pouliot play their off wings?

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I could see that. I could also see them easing Cally back into things the first two games out of the top 6 (but shouldn't the same be said for Step considering all of his time off?)

I think this team looks a lot different when Hags comes back. I think he really changes the dynamic of the team. I really like the idea of Boyle - Moore - Dorsett because thats a very good 4th line - but for now you are right. I'd rather have Moore centering the 3rd line over Boyle. Moore is more dynamic and fits into AVs system better. Hes around the net and is quicker on the puck. Once Hags comes back i'd slide Richards down to center the third and put Hags back with Step and Nash.

I would even try this tonight or tomorrow. I think Cally and Moore would work well together.

Richards - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - Zuccarello
Pyatt/Fast - Moore - Callahan
Asham - Boyle - Dorsett

Would rather have Miller instead in Pyatts spot, but its a numbers game. I hate having to insert Pyatt every time I make lines. Its good depth to have but he just doesnt fit on this team IMO.

I agree with you on everything. I like that lineup at the bottom you suggested (obviously, I'd prefer Fast over Pyatt, but c'est la vie) and think Moore and Callahan could work well together. I think Moore is a better third line center for AV's system than Boyle as well and I think when Hagelin comes back I'd put him back with Stepan and Nash immediately, slide Richard down to center the third and use the fourth line you suggested.

EDIT: I don't think Cally plays well on the left, but I believe Zucc does fine there. Pouliot and Pyatt, I believe can play both sides to equal (ie. not much) effect. Fast could play RW on the third line if Pouliot has to play LW. And I agree, it's unfortunate that AV is such a fan of Pyatt. The guy never broke 40 points, back when he was prime, and now he's lucky to be a 25 point player.

 

[NYR2007]

i actually dont have a big problem with the fourth line. The problem is that we have two lines of fourth line players.

But with hagelin coming back and cally now in the line up you will see these guys get pushed out and the line up becoming more balanced.

The way the lines are constructed i don't mind keeping cally on the third line as a checker that can also pump in a few goals. His line will go out against LA's top line.

The people that are complaining about Boyle, It become obvious in the off season we were gonna keep him when Sather came out and said that teams are interested in him but we are keeping him, and then Sather went out and got Moore. We have 5 centers on the team and i think Boyle is gonna to be utilized on the third line till at least Hagelin comes back and AV puts Richards as the third line center men. We can hope we put him as a winger on the fourth line, but it appears this coach like him, So we can only hope

But the guy is money in the playoffs

 

[16 To Stanley*]

Lol, Pyatt and Boyle should NEVER see 15 minutes of ice time.

EVER.

To say they were the only ones not getting manhandled.....who cares.

We were losing, Nash can have one shift and score a goal, even if he's having an awful game. Pyatt and Boyle are never going to be consistent offensive threats.

It is a MASSIVE mistake to have those 2 out there for 15 minutes a game.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

I want this.

Hagelin--Stepan--Nash
Pouliot--Brassard--Zuccarello
Fast--Miller--Callahan
Boyle--Moore--Dorsett


Richards
Asham

 

[Bardof425*]

****ing Callahan with Boyle and Pyatt. **** BOTH those guys. We need Callahan with Miller and Fast not those two idiots.

Cue the Boyle defenders

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Richards isn't going to sit. If it happens, it will be 2/3 through the season, if his production has been really bad. Right now, everyone is saying he looks better. The broadcast crew, the coaches, some fans. He's not going to sit.

 

[NYR2007]

I want this.

Hagelin--Stepan--Nash
Pouliot--Brassard--Zuccarello
Fast--Miller--Callahan
Boyle--Moore--Dorsett


Richards
Asham

You wont see 20 Million dollars sitting in the press box

 

[silverfish]

Cue the Boyle defenders

Anyone who wants Miller in this lineup over Boyle right now has their head in the clouds.