2-1 TB Habs on the chopping block

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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That's the way I see it too. As I've said elsewhere, if this coach had actually inherited the Lightning squad, plus DD, there is no way that the Johnson line would be intact. Johnson, Kucherov, or Palat, or a combination would have been demoted to make way for aging vets/grinders or shifted to the fourth line because of their perceived threat to DD. The way that Galchenyuk and Andrighetto were tossed around.
Yup, and then we have to listen as people start questioning Galchenyuk and whether or not he should be referred to as Galchenbust... Give him a good coach and we'll be fine.

And roster mgmt is only half the problem. Ninja just posted a great video on CH24 where he berates the team for cycling the puck offensively. He just coaches any offensive creativity out of the team. It's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing with a guy like Galchenyuk.

“We try to be fancy, we try to be cute... we try to be the team that we’re not...â€
“North south quick! You don’t try to slow down the game we want to go there as quick as we can. Chip and chase!â€
“We are a grinding team. Accept it! Because if we don’t we don’t have success. Accept it. Do it!â€

That's what's being drilled into this team after every game. He "coaches" the talent out of the team's creativity, plays inferior players over better ones, doesn't develop younger players the way he should and then we hear crap like "it ain't the coach." I mean wtf...
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
5,044
534
Bedford NS
Honestly... what was Therrien's problem with Bournival? I liked the energy he brought... he was a good young player who could fill in on the bottom six.
I'd take Bournival right now over at least half of these garbage bottom-6'ers we've got. DSP, Mitchell, Flynn, hell even DLR, who seems to have the offensive instincts of a lamppost.

It sure smells like he did something to piss Therrien off, because he spent a long time this season in the doghouse or the farm for no clear reason.
 

Wats

Error 520
Mar 8, 2006
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Play the kids game 4. Nothing to lose and a ton of exp to gain.
 

Habs83

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
826
2
Ottawa, Ontario
Well, Bournival is just not a very good NHL hockey player, great wheels, but hands of cement full of thumbs.
Eller has never scored more than 18 goals in his pro career...EVER
He's a really good 3rd line center, let's keep him there.
PP sucks, I get that, will need to remedy that for sure.
Now, do you still believe we have the horses to be a scoring machine? We've had all the shots in the world on net but nothing is going in. Been saying it for a while now, we need talent in the top 6, and it starts with riding ourselves of DD, PAP and unfortunately Plekanec.

How do you expect Eller to score more than 18 goals while playing 3rd line minutes and no powerplay??
 

OldCraig71

Registered User
Feb 2, 2009
35,117
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No one cares
I feel bad for Price, the whole organization let him down. He is winning the Hart trophy and his team was average at best in front of him. I can't wait for the transition year crap to start spewing, it was an utter failure of a playoffs and save for Hammond's nerves getting the best of him we would have been done in the first round.
 

jwrocks1

Registered User
Mar 28, 2015
2,377
3
Yup, and then we have to listen as people start questioning Galchenyuk and whether or not he should be referred to as Galchenbust... Give him a good coach and we'll be fine.

And roster mgmt is only half the problem. Ninja just posted a great video on CH24 where he berates the team for cycling the puck offensively. He just coaches any offensive creativity out of the team. It's exactly the opposite of what we should be doing with a guy like Galchenyuk.

“We try to be fancy, we try to be cute... we try to be the team that we’re not...â€
“North south quick! You don’t try to slow down the game we want to go there as quick as we can. Chip and chase!â€
“We are a grinding team. Accept it! Because if we don’t we don’t have success. Accept it. Do it!â€

That's what's being drilled into this team after every game. He "coaches" the talent out of the team's creativity, plays inferior players over better ones, doesn't develop younger players the way he should and then we hear crap like "it ain't the coach." I mean wtf...


Fancy and cute? If they took a low percentage play and tried it, I'd agree, but the play in question happened when they had proper defensive support, so even if it didn't work they had proper positioning to defend. MT was an donkey's rearend on that


I've defended MT in the past as I thought he was the right type of coach we needed after the terrible season.

But now, his usefulness has been outlived. He simply does not have the tools this team needs to progress.

I agree, his manlove dor DD is borderline creepy. Galchenyuk needs to make that move (he actually needed to be moved to C this year IMHO). If his D is still borderline, add Patches in there, his D is excellent. Put another solid two-way winger in like Gallagher and you have a REAL 1st line. Or, make a move for a RW....Sharp would be an excellent choice, especially with Patches and AG.

MB must make the decision to move DD this offseason. Force the hand of any coaching staff to put Galch in at C.

A new coach, that allows more offensive creativity is needed. Babcock (I know, dreaming), Boucher. That's 2 off the top of my head.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
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The funny thing is the HYabs scored more goals when Pacioretty was out and Desharnais played like a 4th liner.

Yet, many fans still think that Pacioretty-Desharnais is the core of our offensive.
 

number 11

Registered User
Jan 11, 2008
4,059
0
Montreal
Devastating. I thought we deserved to win that one and dominated Tampa for long stretches in the 2nd and third. Unfortunately Tampa Bay are a bit more talented. Tyler Johnson maybe the most underrated player in hockey. The dude's money. The one advantage we had heading into the series was goaltending but Ben Bishop has been better than Price.

the team that finds a way to win deserves to win. we can make all the excuses in the world, posts, offsides, luck etc etc etc. we simply could not execute and don't deserve to win this series.

I don't believe bishop has been better than price. price has done his job and given the habs the chance to win every game. If you can only win if your team gets a shutout - you're not going far.
 

jwrocks1

Registered User
Mar 28, 2015
2,377
3
The funny thing is the HYabs scored more goals when Pacioretty was out and Desharnais played like a 4th liner.

Yet, many fans still think that Pacioretty-Desharnais is the core of our offensive.

I'd say the vast majority want to see DD moved out of town
 

jwrocks1

Registered User
Mar 28, 2015
2,377
3
the team that finds a way to win deserves to win. we can make all the excuses in the world, posts, offsides, luck etc etc etc. we simply could not execute and don't deserve to win this series.

I don't believe bishop has been better than price. price has done his job and given the habs the chance to win every game. If you can only win if your team gets a shutout - you're not going far.

yup. Our issue is not defensive....it's offensive finish. We played a near flawless game.....except the scoring.....we cannot expect to go deep in the playoffs scoring an avg of 1.5GPG
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,096
22,290
Orleans
How do you expect Eller to score more than 18 goals while playing 3rd line minutes and no powerplay??

Eller's been part of the HABS since 2010-11. He played for other teams from 2005-06 to 2009-10, he never scored more than 18 and he's always been touted to become a good two way player....he may become a second line center some day, but if he's gonna be successful, I see him more as a third line center, but there's no denying, he's played much much better than DD so I get where you guys are coming from.
 

Natey

GOATS
Aug 2, 2005
62,327
8,500
Honestly... what was Therrien's problem with Bournival? I liked the energy he brought... he was a good young player who could fill in on the bottom six.


Their coach isn't playing a marginal NHL talent ahead of his best players either.

It's absolute nonsense that on the one hand people say "its the players not the coach" and then have no problem with us playing DD as much as we do.

Look, if we play our best players in prominent roles and we still lose... then maybe we can have the "we don't have talent" conversation. But that's not what we saw this year. We saw Lars Eller (far superior in every way to DD) relegated to an almost 100 percent checking role with scrubs. We saw Alex Galchenyuk seemingly win the number one role only to be relegated - inexplicably - to 2nd line wing. We watched two years ago as a good line with promise - EGG - was dismantled without any explanation and while we've tried EVERY combo under the sun we've refused to go back to this. Nathan Beaulieu has also been leaned on far less than he should've and we've played the hell out of aging vet Markov...

That's just the roster problems... we didn't even get into the pathetic system we play or the atrocious PP. A team with Subban, Markov, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Max isn't good enough to have a good PP? That's just bs.

But it ain't the coach right?
Desharnais has had his ice-time significantly cut in the playoffs. He didn't even play one game. Far bigger problems than that.

But of course... get rid of DD and Therrien... and we'll score 600 times a night.

Plus, Max Pacioretty has sucked his entire career on the PP... but I guess that's all Therrien's fault too.

I'm with chopping Therrien. I am. But people acting like getting rid of two people instantly makes us the Blackhawks are crazy.

The funny thing is the HYabs scored more goals when Pacioretty was out and Desharnais played like a 4th liner.

Yet, many fans still think that Pacioretty-Desharnais is the core of our offensive.
4th liner? That weird line played really well, in most people's opinion, until they sucked in the first game of the playoffs.
 

Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
14,928
11,091
Desharnais only had his ice time cut in games where we had less PPs.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,384
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Ottawa
I think the most frustrating part for me is no the last second goal...

It's all the missed opportunities the Habs had, not only this game, but the entire series.

How many pucks just sat their in the goalmouth or even goal line, wasted opportunities.

Not enough players bearing down, see Gallagher, that guy will throw himself in along with the puck to assure that the goal goes in.

So frustrating...how can a team get the majority of the bounces like the Bolts have for 8 freaking games this year.

Like every.single.bounce.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,096
22,290
Orleans
I'd say the vast majority want to see DD moved out of town

If you put up a poll, I'd say you'd be looking at a 97% saying bye bye to DD...Dudley and Bergevin must be looking at each other saying "we gotta figure out a way to get rid of this guy"
 

Haaabs

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
697
9
Montreal
Edited

Nevermind, rewatched the replay, he might have been pointing at a open man to have someone else cover


Also, I'm upset at the lack of effort last night
 
Last edited:

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
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Desharnais has had his ice-time significantly cut in the playoffs. He didn't even play one game. Far bigger problems than that.

But of course... get rid of DD and Therrien... and we'll score 600 times a night.

Plus, Max Pacioretty has sucked his entire career on the PP... but I guess that's all Therrien's fault too.

I'm with chopping Therrien. I am. But people acting like getting rid of two people instantly makes us the Blackhawks are crazy.


4th liner? That weird line played really well, in most people's opinion, until they sucked in the first game of the playoffs.

Well the Habs scored more goals in game #1-#2-#6 against Ott and in game #2 against Tampa.

That's the only games Montreal scored 2 goals or more in regulation.
Game #1 vs OTT = DD played as a 4th liner, less than 13 minutes
Game #2 vs OTT = DD played as a top 6, won in Overtime
Game #6 vs OTT = DD played less than 14 minutes
Game #2 vs TB = DD didn't played at all.

The Habs scored more than 1 goal only once when DD is played with top 6 minutes.
Funny that DD played less = The Habs score more goals......isn't DD supposed to help us offensively?
Remember this, in the season and in the PO, the Habs win more when they play Eller more than DD...and actually score more goals

Proving that the Habs don't need DD, at all!
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
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Desharnais has had his ice-time significantly cut in the playoffs. He didn't even play one game. Far bigger problems than that.
Who played more last night? Was it Eller or DD? Who was DD playing with? Who was Eller playing with?

Far bigger problems? Sure. But I said so in my last post. You are making a strawman that I'm saying DD is our biggest problem... he's not and I never said he was. His usage just a very obvious problem.
But of course... get rid of DD and Therrien... and we'll score 600 times a night.
You really like that strawman don't you. You repeat it all the time.
Plus, Max Pacioretty has sucked his entire career on the PP... but I guess that's all Therrien's fault too.
Most of his career has been spent with Therrien...
I'm with chopping Therrien. I am. But people acting like getting rid of two people instantly makes us the Blackhawks are crazy.
Right... 'cause that's what people are arguing... Stop with the strawman crap.
 

MarkovsKnee

Global Moderator
Nov 21, 2007
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Toronto
I can't believe how badly everyone on the ice played on that last goal. Yes, Pleks should've made the safe play and dumped it, but even then it was only a 2-on-3 for Tampa then a 3-on-3. Just horrible to watch.

Markov: All he does is back-up & puck watch. By the end, he is so far on top of Price, he's nothing more than a screen. He doesn't see the cross over. He's standing watching the entire way.

Pacioretty: Goes to an already covered man (Subban's). As the 3rd man, it's his job to take away the trailer. He doesn't. Still, he can save the situation by either forcing the player into Subban, take away the passing lane, or just hit the guy. He does none of that. The pass is made to the trailer.

At this point it's a 3-on-3, but Markov is so far on top of Price that he's useless. Pacioretty is going the wrong way and ends up on the same side of the ice as:

Gallagher: who must've really hustled just to get back into the play, but he is play watching. He does the right thing by coming back to the net but doesn't pick up Johnson at all. Like Patches, there is no effort to get inside of Johnson, play physical D with him and move him out. Nothing. He just puck watches. Useless.

Plekanec: Floats back. Like in a really baaaaad way. He's not skating. With his speed, no way should Gally beat him back. Johnson is his man, while Pleks is gliding back he's gliding to the front of the net all alone.

Subban: the only one playing hockey. He is one - on - one with the puck carrier which is the right thing to do. At this point, Habs out number Tbay, because of that I would've liked to see him step up here and take his man physically like he used to do. There's no TB player who's a danger. Subban could've snuffed it all out by stepping up, protecting the blueline and playing physically. But, he doesn't. He keeps his man to the outside perimetre. He is allowed to skate untouched through the middle of the ice.

Subban doesn't see the cross over because Johnson's behind him. He does see the trailer. He recognizes the danger of the open ice and drops back to protect the slot/centre of the ice in case of a pass across, which is the right thing to do.

At this point, only Subban is in anything resembling good position. Markov magically ends up in good position because the Tbay player comes right at him. Marky has the chance to step up and challenge, force the guy to the wall or corners, or force him into a low percentage pass since Subban has the middle of the ice. Instead, he drops to his knees then his stomach and goes for a swim.:shakehead

Subban is still protecting the middle of the ice, but since he turned he now sees Johnson, who neither Patches or Gally has bothered to pick up considering both are on that side of the net.

Subban recognizes the whole play has turned into a 2--on-1 down low with him the 1. This is in spite of their being 3, yes 3! Other Habs in the ****ing zone. 4 guys are back! 4! And, it turns into a 2-on-1.:laugh:

Subban uses his stick to try to take away the passing lane while trying to get to Johnson. The pass has to be perfect and it is. If that was one of our inept forwards, the pass is behind the open guy, or it's a pass the open player can't handle, or it harmlessly hits the D, or it just goes no where.

I feel like Subban could've done more with Johnson. He ended up right there. He needed to take away his stick and be a lot more physical in front with Johnson. But, considering Subban was the only one playing hockey and well trying I find it hard to blame him. His teammates are ****ing morons.


I watched that last play over and over and over. It was so mind boggling awful D and effort. :laugh:

Passive keep them to the perimetre D to go along with our passive keep to the perimetre offense. We ain't winning jack **** with this kind of play.
 

Maverik

Registered User
Oct 26, 2006
628
16
Soft soft soft.. we get the puck to the net.. to the goaline, but when the whistle is blown, there's 3 Habs on their ass.
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,710
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Quebec City, Canada
I think the most frustrating part for me is no the last second goal...

It's all the missed opportunities the Habs had, not only this game, but the entire series.

Yep exactly the 2nd goal should not have mattered at all.

The game should have been 3-1 for us minimum at that time.

The problem is not a defensive one. Before last game pretty much everyone in the team had a positive +/-.

The problem is here

1 P.K. Subban MTL D 9 1 4 5
2 Tom Gilbert MTL D 9 2 2 4
3 Torrey Mitchell MTL C 9 1 3 4
4 Brian Flynn MTL C 6 1 2 3

ARE YOU ******* KIDDING ME!!!
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
24,710
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Quebec City, Canada
I would've liked to see him step up here and take his man physically like he used to do.

To be honest he could not do that. It was Tyler Johnson one of the biggest floppers in the league who is still not on the embellishers black list for a reason nobody understand.

Remember earlier this season when Eller won a puck battle against Johnson and got a 2 for Johnson flopping on the ice? Everyone and their mother blamed Eller for that.

if Subban play physical against Johnson with 2-3 sec left there's absolutely not doubt Johnson flop on the ice and Subban gets a 2 and then everyone blame him for that.

He tried to play the stick and failed. At this point it should not have mattered the game should have been over.
 

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