Post-Game Talk: 2-1 Hawks (Shootout) - Leadership Edition.

[Asuna]

well, this thread took a turn for the insane.

Pens have played pretty well since the Nashville Debacle. The true test starts now against some Metro teams. Lose again to Washington and you may as well burn it down.

Lose? I just want them to score a goal against them

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Bennett shot more yesterday than usual, but they were all obvious shot situations, imo. As Edzo said, the puck was just finding him a lot. That's the only difference I saw between Bennett of yesterday and Bennett of any other day ever.

I disagree, the shots were nice but there was a handful of times after that line lost possession that they either got it back or at least slowed down the break out by squeezing them against the boards near the top of their zone. Bennett on at least 2 occasions helped create turnovers in that area by initiating contact and just being a puck hound.

I guarantee if Bennett plays this strong the rest of the year he will not be a healthy scratch again.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yep. It's an exercise in futility. Some people can't think for themselves I suppose or understand how accountability for all plays a huge part in the discipline of the team.

It is what it is.

And some people cannot admit that maybe just maybe a player they like was benched for a good reason. Or understand that they have no idea what accountability is or how it relates in a locker room that they have never been in. Other than a fun buzzword to use when the coach does something they don't like.

 

[SEALBound]

Hossa is the most complete player on that team not Toews

Boy howdy. Every time I see him play I just shake my head and wonder what could have been.

He's the exact piece we've been missing ever since.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And some people cannot admit that maybe just maybe a player they like was benched for a good reason. Or understand that they have no idea what accountability is or how it relates in a locker room that they have never been in. Other than a fun buzzword to use when the coach does something they don't like.

Comical. The guy who had the most well informed poster on the CBA on here and the GM of the team telling him he was wrong, but still thought he was right....

Go on and tell me how Despres deserves to be benched and DB is right.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Hossa is the most complete player on that team not Toews

Nope..toews is. Better offense and equal defense. Special teams the same. Toews has faceoffs and captaincy.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Comical. The guy who had the most well informed poster on the CBA on here and the GM of the team telling him he was wrong, but still thought he was right....

Go on and tell me how Despres deserves to be benched and DB is right.

Except the GM never said I was wrong, and I still might be but its funny how I posted the actual rules from the CBA and nobody responded. If there is something I missed I will be more than happy to admit it.

Despres at time has deserved to be benched just not fro 2 years.

But since your obviously changing the subject ill just take this for what it is a lame attempt to skirt the issue.

 

[WayneSid9987]

http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/2015/02/16/mackey-do-they-always-do-this/#axzz3RvKovH52

Just caught this on my twitter timeline.
Interesting stuff.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/2015/02/16/mackey-do-they-always-do-this/#axzz3RvKovH52

Just caught this on my twitter timeline.
Interesting stuff.

Not afraid of hurting vets feeling in practice just in games I guess.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Except the GM never said I was wrong, and I still might be but its funny how I posted the actual rules from the CBA and nobody responded. If there is something I missed I will be more than happy to admit it.

Despres at time has deserved to be benched just not fro 2 years.

But since your obviously changing the subject ill just take this for what it is a lame attempt to skirt the issue.

Dollar in dollar out ~ JR

Just as Kunitz, Sutter, Adams and Scuds have deserved to be benched the last two years and never were. Just like ownership had issues with how Despres was handled.

And my lame attempt to skirt the issue? What's left to discuss?

I already posted BB own words and the actual facts and timeline leading up to his benching. Sheep will be sheep. All I can do is pull the wool from over your eyes.

You go right ahead and let me know the next time a tenured vet sits.

 

[TheSniper26]

http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/2015/02/16/mackey-do-they-always-do-this/#axzz3RvKovH52

Just caught this on my twitter timeline.
Interesting stuff.

I like that he's working the players hard but it does make you wonder if there's a connection to our late game struggles. They might be burning themselves out a bit.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Thats understandable and maybe not incorrect but IMO I think people are getting hung up on this as some sort of big punishment. I think the coaching staff saw it as an opportunity to try and help develop a young player and so far it seems to be working. I think fans in general (my self included) tend to blow up minor things like this. Especially when the last coach would bench a good young player for the better part of two years after each mistake.

I guess that's where we part ways. You think Bennett's game yesterday was a result of being benched and learning a lesson, I think it's a return to the norm after a brief dip under extenuating circumstances. Bennett's few below-par games were an aberration.

OOOOR maybe just maybe coaches that get this far just trust vets more than young players OOOOOR maybe they don't believe being scratched will have the same effect OOOOR maybe they know that being scratched wont make Sutter stronger or Kunitz faster or Adams talented.

Not every benching or demotion has to be to develop a player though. A player can be benched for playing poorly, because the team is better without them.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Wrong Thread. Delete.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Dollar in dollar out ~ JR

Just as Kunitz, Sutter, Adams and Scuds have deserved to be benched the last two years and never were.

And my lame attempt to skirt the issue? What's left to discuss?

I already posted BB own words and the actual facts and timeline leading up to his benching. Sheep will be sheep. All I can do is pull the wool from over your eyes.

Again you have NO idea what they're taking into account. At best they have a proratable .791. If you include DPs bonus (which they might be) its now 0.352 id imagine they would AT LEAST leave space for 1 injury callup (0.121 minimum prorated to deadline) and now that's 0.231. That if prorated is only 1.05 million in added salary. So yeah I think dollar for dollar still largely applies if they're taking those things into consideration.

Now if you (or anyone else) wants to actually read the CBA like I did and find and explain WHY I was wrong, I will gladly admit it. Sorry im not gonna accept "because I say so".

Maybe for the reasons I have already addressed those player were not scratched by MJ this season, you know other than him being deathly afraid of them. You do know that someone can make the opposite decision thay you would make and still have that decision be justifiable. I don't know what last year has to do with anything. I have said on numerous occasions that DB was wrong in the way he handled Despres.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I guess that's where we part ways. You think Bennett's game yesterday was a result of being benched and learning a lesson, I think it's a return to the norm after a brief dip under extenuating circumstances. Bennett's few below-par games were an aberration.



Not every benching or demotion has to be to develop a player though. A player can be benched for playing poorly, because the team is better without them.

I think its partially both. I don't necessarily agree with the decision to scratch him for 4 games but I do understand the rationale if they believed he wasn't playing the way they wanted him too.

Obviously but that really doesn't fit anyone in the lineup right now. Even if you bench Adams your replacing him with someone just as bad (Sill, Ebbetts etc), even if you bench Scuds/Bortuzzo your replacing them with someone who isn't quite ready (Harington, Dumo etc). If we had another forward and Adams was CONSISTANTLY playing over someone better day in and day out its a problem. Just as Despres being benched for the like of Engellend was.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again you have NO idea what they're taking into account. At best they have a proratable .791. If you include DPs bonus (which they might be) its now 0.352 id imagine they would AT LEAST leave space for 1 injury callup (0.121 minimum prorated to deadline) and now that's 0.231. That if prorated is only 1.05 million in added salary. So yeah I think dollar for dollar still largely applies if they're taking those things into consideration.

Now if you (or anyone else) wants to actually read the CBA like I did and find and explain WHY I was wrong, I will gladly admit it. Sorry im not gonna accept "because I say so".

Maybe for the reasons I have already addressed those player were not scratched by MJ this season, you know other than him being deathly afraid of them. You do know that someone can make the opposite decision thay you would make and still have that decision be justifiable. I don't know what last year has to do with anything. I have said on numerous occasions that DB was wrong in the way he handled Despres.

How LTIR is handled was explained to you many times and you obviously don't understand how ELC bonuses work either.

Keep using hyperbole though, it's always fun.

I listened to posters just like you try justify how Despres was handled last year and just rolled my eyes. Low and behold.

But just ask Rossi "Simon Despres isn't any good, ok! Robble robble." That's what happens when you listen to the politics of a coach and don't actually watch the player.

Once again, throw me a shout when a tenured vet gets benched. Letting Sutter and Kunitz dog it has done wonders for their play.

I wonder which is more likely if Adams sat: a. the team gets better b. they suffer without their heart and soul player.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Not only did the coaching staff say it...
Not only did Bennett confirm it...
But his play has been night and day since he returned.

He's been going to the net. Today he was all over the boards initiating contact helping to create and maintain possession.

Its crazy, they scratched him for a specific reason and as soon as he comes back the thing he was supposed to be working on is much improved and is playing great. But scratching him was bad because the internet says so. Im sure there will now be 100 posts about accountability or some other nonsense.

That's where you’re wrong…rather where I disagree to be polite. Bennett was playing great when he was on Malkin’s line. The line drove possession but was a little snake-bitten in regards to finishing. That leads me to ask where your “night and day” comment comes from? He was good BEFORE he got benched. Then he struggled upon return from his benching while trying to change his style of play to be a north/south player. Then yesterday he takes over the game playing Beau Bennett hockey.

Um yeah ok sure. Except they didn't need a scapegoat and Bennett has been playing much better since his return to the lineup. But keep on shouting those "facts" from the mountaintop.

When you read this again, do you think these words helped or hindered your argument?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

How LTIR is handled was explained to you many times and you obviously don't understand how ELC bonuses work either.

Keep using hyperbole though, it's always fun.

I listened to posters just like you try justify how Despres was handled last year and just rolled my eyes. Low and behold.

But just ask Rossi "Simon Despres isn't any good, ok! Robble robble." That's what happens when you listen to the politics of a coach and don't actually watch the player.

Once again, throw me a shout when a tenured vet gets benched. Letting Sutter and Kunitz dog it has done wonders for their play.

I wonder which is more likely if Adams sat: a. the team gets better b. they suffer without their heart and soul player.

1. Ok ill say again if you weren't listening, show me where in the CBA it shows what your saying. As I have not yet seen anything there that confirms that. Shouldn't be that hard.

2. Comical coming from you who thinks the coach's are scared.

3. I don't know how many times I have to AGREE about Despres for it not to be relevant. BB situation and the Despres situation are completely different. You know, 4 games compared to the better part of 2 years.

4. Never said Bennett wasn't good.

5. Again not agreeing with a decision doesn't mean there are not justifiable reasons. Even if that decision is incorrect.

6. Team get better unless your replacing him with another scrub like Sill then probably nothing happens. When we have another forward that is better than the two of them this will actually matter. Until then its just different shades of the same *****.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

That's where you’re wrong…rather where I disagree to be polite. Bennett was playing great when he was on Malkin’s line. The line drove possession but was a little snake-bitten in regards to finishing. That leads me to ask where your “night and day†comment comes from? He was good BEFORE he got benched. Then he struggled upon return from his benching while trying to change his style of play to be a north/south player. Then yesterday he takes over the game playing Beau Bennett hockey.



When you read this again, do you think these words helped or hindered your argument?

I don't think that correct at all, yeah he was playing good with Malkin but when he went out he struggled. Especially in the physical aspect. I though he has played well in the last 2 games. One he was camped in front of the net and yesterday he was all over loose pucks and board battles. That's what impressed me. He has always been good with the puck on his stick. I don't think that was ever in question.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

1. Ok ill say again if you weren't listening, show me where in the CBA it shows what your saying. As I have not yet seen anything there that confirms that. Shouldn't be that hard.

2. Comical coming from you who thinks the coach's are scared.

3. I don't know how many times I have to AGREE about Despres for it not to be relevant. BB situation and the Despres situation are completely different. You know, 4 games compared to the better part of 2 years.

4. Never said Bennett wasn't good.

5. Again not agreeing with a decision doesn't mean there are not justifiable reasons. Even if that decision is incorrect.

6. Team get better unless your replacing him with another scrub like Sill then probably nothing happens. When we have another forward that is better than the two of them this will actually matter. Until then its just different shades of the same *****.

Again, it was explained to you in detail. Now you are trying to add on an ELC performance bonus when there is a 7.5% allowance and it can be applied next season.

Benching youth while vets skate by is still a big problem. Make the connection.

DB brother straight out said DB was intimidated by Malkin and Crosby. You think that doesn't apply to MJ and how Kunitz is being handled? If there is a rift, who goes first, MJ or Crosby? Big mystery.

As far as Adams, Sill has outplayed him the last month, but yet Adams still plays over Sill. Why is Adams so special? Do tell.

 

[Shady Machine]

1. Ok ill say again if you weren't listening, show me where in the CBA it shows what your saying. As I have not yet seen anything there that confirms that. Shouldn't be that hard.

2. Comical coming from you who thinks the coach's are scared.

3. I don't know how many times I have to AGREE about Despres for it not to be relevant. BB situation and the Despres situation are completely different. You know, 4 games compared to the better part of 2 years.

4. Never said Bennett wasn't good.

5. Again not agreeing with a decision doesn't mean there are not justifiable reasons. Even if that decision is incorrect.

6. Team get better unless your replacing him with another scrub like Sill then probably nothing happens. When we have another forward that is better than the two of them this will actually matter. Until then its just different shades of the same *****.

Show us where in the CBA your interpretation, which has been disputed by nearly everyone on this board, contradicts capgeek (damn I wish I could find their explanation) and what JR said, is correct.

 

[drpepper]

i remain convinced that over half of Bennett's struggles came from playing the LW. He looks so much better on the RW.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Again, it was explained to you in detail. Now you are trying to add on an ELC performance bonus when there is a 7.5% allowance and it can be applied next season.

Benching youth while vets skate by is still a big problem. Make the connection.

DB brother straight out said DB was intimidated by Malkin and Crosby. You think that doesn't apply to MJ and how Kunitz is being handled? If there is a rift, who goes first, MJ or Crosby? Big mystery.

As far as Adams, Sill has outplayed him the last month, but yet Adams still plays over Sill. Why is Adams so special? Do tell.

1. I know it can be applied next season, but im sure they would rather not have to do that. And it sure as h*ll doesn't mean that they were not accounting for it when that statement was said. Also nothing has been explained at all, you just keep saying "you cant prorate LTIR" over and over. If I missed something else you said pertaining to the actual CBA, then fine show me again. But looking at the actual CBA text I don't see anywhere where your explanation is confirmed.

2. Benching anyone for 4 games isn't a problem period. And again there are justifications to do so whether you agree with them or not. Which is my entire point.

3. I don't believe that for a second, if so he should have been fired on the spot. I really doubt MJ is going to get fired over Chris Kunitz regardless of the decidion or you gets mad at it. If it really came down to a power struggle between My or SC we all know whos going. Not only do highly doubt theres an issue, but I doubt any coach would willingly be neutered to keep their job.

4. Sill has played better than usual recently but overall Adams has been better. His possession numbers are far and away better. Neither are good but a case can be made for Adams easily.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Show us where in the CBA your interpretation, which has been disputed by nearly everyone on this board, contradicts capgeek (damn I wish I could find their explanation) and what JR said, is correct.

The CBA is located on NHLPA.com

Page 289.

Article 50.10 part (d) numbers (iii) and (iv) pertain to LTIR and replacement.

Unless im missing or misunderstanding something I don't see anything that shows that the replacement salary is not prorate to number of days on the roster just as as anyone elses.

 

[Shady Machine]

The CBA is located on NHLPA.com

Page 289.

Article 50.10 part (d) numbers (iii) and (iv) pertain to LTIR and replacement.

Unless im missing or misunderstanding something I don't see anything that shows that the replacement salary is not prorate to number of days on the roster just as as anyone elses.

The total replacement Player Salary and Bonuses for a Player or Players
that have replaced an unfit-to-play Player may not in the aggregate exceed
the amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the unfit-to-play Player
who the Club is replacing;

It says the TOTAL replacement player salary and bonuses. So it's pretty clear cut to me. If your interpretation was correct, then teams would actually benefit (from a cap perspective) from players being injured. Why would it make sense for a player with a 4MM cap hit to play half a season (2MM of his cap hit is already spent), get injured and go on LTIR, and then the team can replace him with a pro-rate 8MM in player cap hit?