Value of: 1st Round Carolina Pick For A Center

[jellybeans]

Canes offer Kotkaniemi for 2x 1st round picks

KK is untradeable for 1 year

 

[JRichard]

I would imagine a lot of middle six centres could be available for a 1st.

At the tdl yes, not before training camps when teams need to figure out if their prospects are ready, plus injuries. Plus salary cap issues.
Hockey trade more likely.

 

[ManofSteel55]

At the tdl yes, not before training camps when teams need to figure out if their prospects are ready, plus injuries. Plus salary cap issues.
Hockey trade more likely.

I dunno, it might be the only time some teams get a 1st rounder offered for their centreman. If there are teams that don't think they can make the playoffs anyway, now isn't a bad time.

 

[Syckle78]

There’s about 3 defenseman on the habs I’d take on any team over Chabot.

It’s funny on this forum how a few weeks ago Kotkaneimi wasn’t worth a high 2nd/late 1st. Now all of a sudden Montreal would be getting fleeced if they let him go for a 1st and a 3rd. It’s amazing how much the narrative changes when it’s attempted at making Montreal look bad.

As for Ottawa, they’ve had 1 half decent season in the last 15 years where they lost in the conference finals. Let me guess, you still riding Heatly for that 50 goal season? Lmao.

What’s the new name going to be when Tkachuk leaves in the next few seasons?

With post like these from their fanbase nobody needs to post anything to make Montreal look bad.

 

[Pongs21]

What a day to be alive! Haha first post so here goes….. let KK go for the picks. I would actually look at Wii open and offer both picks with Romanov for Dubois. 1 year left at 5M and RFA. His production has been around drouins production with only one year passing 50 pts with Panarin as his winger.

to then address the D, why not OS Quinn? Van is in Cap hell and can’t offer market value to both him and Pettersen…..

Thoughts?

No thanks - our D was already addressed this offseason. While we don't have a true #1 guy, we arguably have five top 4D (Morrissey, Scmhidt, Dillion, Pionk and Demelo) and Romanov isn't close to being a #1 right now or maybe ever (talking Norris level D here, not #1D Morrissey level)

This deal would be making a big hole at the 2C position - a position that took years, with multiple 1st's heading out the door in addition to trading a superstar sniper and another top 6/9 C to address.

We already have Morrissey, Dillon, Schmidt and Stanley as LHD on the roster, not to mention 2 blue chip D prospects (that were assumed to have locked roster spots before Dillon and Schmidt were acquired) in Heinola and Samberg banging on the door. The Jet's are all in this year, and trading away a significant asset in a very important position to get an additional 1st, for Romanov to battle Stanley for the 3rd pairing spot (losing Stanley to the waiver wire in addition) is not something the Jet's would be remotely interested in right now. If the Jet's were interested in obtaining/recouping draft capital, they would have traded Copp for a late 1st or multiple 2nd's and protected Appleton in the expansion draft.

It's not an insulting offer, however assuming the Cane's 1st would be in the mid to late 20's, it's not really an enticing offer either and only addresses MTL's needs while making WPG a weaker team in a year they are all in. Romanov is a nice piece, but one that would have been seen as much more valuable before the D was addressed. Now he'd be a luxury that comes with some additional headaches in terms of other roster moves needed, etc.

It's possible that Dubois doesn't put it together this season in Winnipeg and/or he isn't interested in signing long term, and the Jet's look at moving him - which would be worst case scenario as I'm sure Chevy envisioned Dubois to be a major long term core piece after trading Laine and Roslovic for him. The expectation/hope is that he has a big bounce back year and is signed long term. If things don't play out the way the Jet's hoped, then maybe he's available next offseason. I don't see a realistic trade that involves Dubios going to MTL this year unless WPG implodes and are sellers at the deadline and Dubois wants out or if MTL is offering Suzuki, which we all know isn't happening.

 

[JRichard]

No thanks - our D was already addressed this offseason. While we don't have a true #1 guy, we arguably have five top 4D (Morrissey, Scmhidt, Dillion, Pionk and Demelo) and Romanov isn't close to being a #1 right now or maybe ever (talking Norris level D here, not #1D Morrissey level)

This deal would be making a big hole at the 2C position - a position that took years, with multiple 1st's heading out the door in addition to trading a superstar sniper and another top 6/9 C to address.

We already have Morrissey, Dillon, Schmidt and Stanley as LHD on the roster, not to mention 2 blue chip D prospects (that were assumed to have locked roster spots before Dillon and Schmidt were acquired) in Heinola and Samberg banging on the door. The Jet's are all in this year, and trading away a significant asset in a very important position to get an additional 1st, for Romanov to battle Stanley for the 3rd pairing spot (losing Stanley to the waiver wire in addition) is not something the Jet's would be remotely interested in right now. If the Jet's were interested in obtaining/recouping draft capital, they would have traded Copp for a late 1st or multiple 2nd's and protected Appleton in the expansion draft.

It's not an insulting offer, however assuming the Cane's 1st would be in the mid to late 20's, it's not really an enticing offer either and only addresses MTL's needs while making WPG a weaker team in a year they are all in. Romanov is a nice piece, but one that would have been seen as much more valuable before the D was addressed. Now he'd be a luxury that comes with some additional headaches in terms of other roster moves needed, etc.

It's possible that Dubois doesn't put it together this season in Winnipeg and/or he isn't interested in signing long term, and the Jet's look at moving him - which would be worst case scenario as I'm sure Chevy envisioned Dubois to be a major long term core piece after trading Laine and Roslovic for him. The expectation/hope is that he has a big bounce back year and is signed long term. If things don't play out the way the Jet's hoped, then maybe he's available next offseason. I don't see a realistic trade that involves Dubios going to MTL this year unless WPG implodes and are sellers at the deadline and Dubois wants out or if MTL is offering Suzuki, which we all know isn't happening.

Come here to read this type of post. Congrats and come again.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

offer both picks with Romanov for Dubois. 1 year left at 5M and RFA

Do the Jets get a say in that? If so, its a no. If you’d like to know why than please read the freshly locked thread titled ‘Dubois to MTL’

 

[Perfect_Drug]

If Kotkaniemi turns into a superstar in Carolina, Montreal will be the laughingstock of the league. It's not like this guy is some unknown mid round pick. He's 3 years removed from being a top 3 draft pick

He was an extreme reach at 3rd, and everyone knows it.
Half the draft projections had him in the late teens, and none had him going 3rd.

KK is developing into what we all thought he would. A decent 3C who can fill in as a 2nd.
Lars Eller tier player.


I don't think anyone is projecting him to ever become a superstar.

 

[Naslundforever]

With post like these from their fanbase nobody needs to post anything to make Montreal look bad.

Is that a goal for you? How do you have 20k posts and still lump millions on humans in buckets on a given subject?

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Do the Jets get a say in that? If so, its a no. If you’d like to know why than please read the freshly locked thread titled ‘Dubois to MTL’

Hey Essensa,
I know it’s been shut down… for the sake of debate though, how high is the actual value on Dubois atm? He has one year over 50 points and that is when he had Panarin as a winger. Questionable behaviour in Columbus. Paul Maurice didn’t even trust him as a center by playing in the wing….. AND he put up about 25 points last year! If you ask me, that profile almost sounds identical to Drouin….. and if that trade proposal was for Drouin , EVERYBODY including myself would say it’s a gross overpayment. So with that said, I do t think it’s a bad offer at all

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Hey Essensa,
I know it’s been shut down… for the sake of debate though, how high is the actual value on Dubois atm? He has one year over 50 points and that is when he had Panarin as a winger. Questionable behaviour in Columbus. Paul Maurice didn’t even trust him as a center by playing in the wing….. AND he put up about 25 points last year! If you ask me, that profile almost sounds identical to Drouin….. and if that trade proposal was for Drouin , EVERYBODY including myself would say it’s a gross overpayment. So with that said, I do t think it’s a bad offer at all

Seeing as it does not fit any need what so ever for the Jets, that alone makes it a bad offer for them.

Unlike some teams, the Jets target guys they like and give them every chance to succeed. They don't flip guys the second they struggle. And players notice things like this.

Question to you now. Why do you want him if he sucks so bad? I have a feeling its for the same reasons the Jets do.

 

[Aurinko]

It's end of offseason, 90% of teams think they have what it takes to make the playoffs. Wait few months into the season and there are centers available for a reasonable price.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Seeing as it does not fit any need what so ever for the Jets, that alone makes it a bad offer for them.

Unlike some teams, the Jets target guys they like and give them every chance to succeed. They don't flip guys the second they struggle. And players notice things like this.

Question to you now. Why do you want him if he sucks so bad? I have a feeling its for the same reasons the Jets do.

Never said he sucked. Only implied he is overvalued. And that the Habs are willing to overpay for a guy they tried trading for to pick him at the draft. It took the jets less than ten games to start shuffling him around.

as for thé trade, their cupboards are not very full, they fou d stop gap defenceman but they don’t have many top four prospects on the LD so yes I was proposing filling a need.
To each their own my man. Just having fun in an otherwise long month of August

 

[Kaen]

Never said he sucked. Only implied he is overvalued. And that the Habs are willing to overpay for a guy they tried trading for to pick him at the draft. It took the jets less than ten games to start shuffling him around.

as for thé trade, their cupboards are not very full, they fou d stop gap defenceman but they don’t have many top four prospects on the LD so yes I was proposing filling a need.
To each their own my man. Just having fun in an otherwise long month of August

Heinola and Samberg are definitely potential top 4 guys and as for cupboards not being full they have a couple other blue chip prospects in Perfetti and Lucius. They might not be overflowing with good prospects, but they do have some very good ones.

As for Dubois, you can say he is overvalued and he definitely had a down year, but 'only hit 50 points once with Panarin' is a super hot take when he just turned 23 over the summer, had 48 in his rookie season and 49 in 70 as a 21 year old before the shutdown last year.

 

[majormajor]

as for thé trade, their cupboards are not very full, they fou d stop gap defenceman but they don’t have many top four prospects on the LD so yes I was proposing filling a need.

I personally look at Heinola and Samberg and think that LD prospects is not a special area of need for the Jets. Not that they wouldn't accept more depth but they wouldn't trade their 2C for it. Right now the Jets are going to give Dubois a second chance, that is their plan for 2C. The only way they move him is if it is for another 2C. So if there's going to be a deal with these two teams, you'll need a third team to supply the center, possibly Dvorak.

 

[JRichard]

It's end of offseason, 90% of teams think they have what it takes to make the playoffs. Wait few months into the season and there are centers available for a reasonable price.

Fine if you have some depth to start the season. Now its Suzuki, Poehling, Evans, Paquette. Last 3 make Danault look like a sniper.

Pretty sure waiting a few months into the season is not an option.

 

[Snowman]

Hey Essensa,
I know it’s been shut down… for the sake of debate though, how high is the actual value on Dubois atm? He has one year over 50 points and that is when he had Panarin as a winger. Questionable behaviour in Columbus. Paul Maurice didn’t even trust him as a center by playing in the wing….. AND he put up about 25 points last year! If you ask me, that profile almost sounds identical to Drouin….. and if that trade proposal was for Drouin , EVERYBODY including myself would say it’s a gross overpayment. So with that said, I do t think it’s a bad offer at all

According to your argument above, the value Dubois has is based solely on last season and would make him a low end 2C. Following that logic through, we should base Romanov on what he did last year. Romanov was a frequent scratch in the regular season and was not trusted by his coach in the playoffs where he was also a healthy scratch. He produced 6 whole points as an offense only, heavily sheltered defenseman. Basically low, low end bottom pairing production. How much value could Romanov have?

No one is giving you a 2C for a struggling low end LD.

 

[EquabaleAce]

Dylan strome is all yours

I would like to get him actually, he would replace everything that KK is currently while not being quite as good defensively. But he will deliver a ton more offence if forced into the #2 Center role (or heavily sheltered line).
Hoffman Strome Anderson with heavy o zone starts could be nice.

Strome obviously isn’t worth that 1st on his own , but could be with Byron as a quasi cap dump.

Chicago has a ton of d prospects as well, could Mitchel be included for a similar LW/RW prospect like Ylonen or Mysak

Or option two would be Strome for
ANA 3rd in 22
TB 4th in 22

 

[Mrfenn92]

I would like to get him actually, he would replace everything that KK is currently while not being quite as good defensively. But he will deliver a ton more offence if forced into the #2 Center role (or heavily sheltered line).
Hoffman Strome Anderson with heavy o zone starts could be nice.

Strome obviously isn’t worth that 1st on his own , but could be with Byron as a quasi cap dump.

Chicago has a ton of d prospects as well, could Mitchel be included for a similar LW/RW prospect like Ylonen or Mysak

Or option two would be Strome for
ANA 3rd in 22
TB 4th in 22

Strome for a pick. Second?
Don’t need to talk about adding Byron or Mitchell and others.
Obviously not worth a first.

 

[Jimmyjets]

Hey Essensa,
I know it’s been shut down… for the sake of debate though, how high is the actual value on Dubois atm? He has one year over 50 points and that is when he had Panarin as a winger. Questionable behaviour in Columbus. Paul Maurice didn’t even trust him as a center by playing in the wing….. AND he put up about 25 points last year! If you ask me, that profile almost sounds identical to Drouin….. and if that trade proposal was for Drouin , EVERYBODY including myself would say it’s a gross overpayment. So with that said, I do t think it’s a bad offer at all

I think your takes are wrong but will concede that PLD's value is likely the lowest it will ever be right now. He's a proven 1C in Columbus as a 20 and 21 year old. His 22 year old season wasn't great with Torterella making things really uncomfortable in Columbus when he didn't want to sign long term there, then having to quarantine mid season, then getting injured when he was able to play. Needing to learn an entirely new system and build chemistry from scratch all on the fly. He was contributing more on the wing but that is how we break in young centers. That's how we did it with Scheifele. That's what we were doing with Roslovic. That's what we've done with PLD and that's what we'll do with Perfetti too. These guys will play on the wing as they learn the systems and get comfortable and then transition back to C when the time is right. It's not about trust, it's about proper player development.

We have the luxury of having Stastny last year and this year who is a very capable 2C so we can optimize and move guys around as both he and PLD can slide to wing. I think both guys have stints at W and C this year with PLD transitioning to full time C by the end of the season.

I predict that PLD will get involved in the PP and go nearly a point per game this season and will sign a long term deal in the offseason cementing himself in a 1a 1b situation and clearly being our future 1C as Scheifele declines (or if he walks as a UFA in 3 years).

If we wanted to sell low I'm sure we could, but that really makes no sense when we've invested so much to get this exact type of player into the fold.

The reality is that you won't be able to get a 2C with any term for a 1st round pick... trust us... we've lived it since Little got hurt. At best you can flip that pick for a rental at the deadline but even then, any top 6 rental C has been a 1st plus prospect in our experience.

 

[Zahra Starker]

The Canadiens do not deserve any compassion or favours. Offer sheeting Aho, leaving Price unprotected, drafting Mailloux... so my offer is Logan Brown for Carolina's first.

And the price for him is going up after midnight tonight. Every other team should make similar proposals.

Have fun cheering for your team with Cedric Pacquette as your 3C

LOL Karma's a bitch

Logan brown the bust? Hahaha he's not even worth a 4th rounder. 23 year old who's average in the ahl. Have fun with him.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Eichel + Miller (50%)
For
Mtl 1st + Car 1st + Drouin + Poehling + Romanov

Toffoli-Eichel-Caufield
Hoffman-Suzuki-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Evans-Anderson
Armia- Paquette-Perrault

Edmondson-Petry
Miller-Savard
Chariot-Wideman
Kulak

 

[JRichard]

Eichel + Miller (50%)
For
Mtl 1st + Car 1st + Drouin + Poehling + Romanov

Toffoli-Eichel-Caufield
Hoffman-Suzuki-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Evans-Anderson
Armia- Paquette-Perrault

Edmondson-Petry
Miller-Savard
Chariot-Wideman
Kulak

Try it on the Sabres board for their fans to see. But wait until tomorrow as they are both sleeping… warning: they will hate it.

That would be January’s roster? Eichel is kind of hurt.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Why are the Canes looking for a C anyway? They have Aho, Trocheck, Staal, look pretty good to me.

They might lose Trocheck to UFA next offseason, Staal is 32 and signed only for two more years - if Kotka becomes a good 2C, then this gets them younger at a cheap-ish cost. And if they really have "too many centers", then that's a great problem to have - you have insurance in case of injuries, or you can take one and trade him away for a different piece you need more.

It could totally blow up in the Canes' face if they miss the playoffs and Kotka is a flop, but it could also be seen as a shrewd move two years from now.