1st Place Baby!!

[habsfanatics*]

Then you pretend this was not an attempt at slight of hand, anyways, I'm done with this discussion, it's clearly going nowhere.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

1) I never said we had nothing better than them. I said why we're not clear cut the best team in the conference. We're still not in front of Washington, Pittsburgh or Tampa Bay.

2) Apparently nobody has pushed Desharnais down yet. Galchenyuk himself said he wants to stay at wing for now, Plekanec is doing his thing and Eller doesn't belong in the same category offensively.

No, you made the ludicrous argument that we didn't have a star enough to push him down. The guy is the 4th best center on our team so wtf does anyone being a star have to do with anything? It's just flat out dumb to put him there.

Their 3rd line is the best in the entire league this season. That 2nd line is also very good, nothing to make fun of. Calling them a 1 line tram makes you wrong, no debate about it.

What makes that line the best 3rd line in the league? What makes that 2nd line "very good?"

Tell us why this is.

So Carlsson, Green, Alone, Orpik and Niskanen are a scrubs now? Ok then. We have a better 1st pairing, the rest? Not so sure either.

Again, VERY debatable for a ton of reasons. Just named a few, it's the last time I do it too.

A ton of reasons that you just named? Where? I read "no debate about it" and I read "you are wrong"... those are not reasons man. WHAT IS YOUR REASONING? How is their 2nd line better than ours? How is their 3rd line better than ours?

And where did I say Washington's D were scrubs?

Pot meet kettle? Calling us the best team in the conference is so much more thorough than saying Pacioretty scores on a more content basis than with Plekanec or Galchenyuk.

Calling us the best roster in the conference is a belief, one that I think I can back up. What you did was make a claim about points and then not back it up with any numbers. Not sure why you don't understand the difference here.

Because you compare apples with apples.

You're comparing different players w. stack ranking. So what? I have no issue going forward vs forward or D vs D. But it also puts things into perspective when you do a stack rank. It reminds people that we actually do have supertars who are comparable to theirs. That's why.

What's next? We don't need top 6 help cause we have Price and a good D?

Who said we don't need top six help? Do other teams not need help anywhere? Are they built perfectly?

We have a better goalie, just like the other 28 teams in the league. Price is the best, end of story. Stop comparing him to how good Ovechkin is at scoring, that's just children talk. There's depth charts for good reasons.

Again WHY shouldn't we do this. Saying it's "children's talk" just reinforces that you don't understand how to debate anything. Just because they are at different positions it does NOT mean that they can't or shouldn't be compared because at that end of the day the best players on each side have a massive influence on how well a team will do. So YES we should compare the best players on each side. Why wouldn't you?

Covered this, done and over.

No you didn't. You said "this is children's stuff" gave no explanation for it and ran away.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Funny, considering your whole argument of why we're playing poorly hinges on numbers that exclude the goalie, ie corsi/fenwick, we've all argued they don't tell the whole story because they ignore the most important position/special teams etc.

Now we're comparing roster depth and you have price compared to ovy, I know Price is a pretty good puck handler, but you don't think he's going to improve our corsi, do you? Or is this another one of your spin attempts? Debate honestly is all I am asking, this was all about corsi and how we're mediocre, now you want to add Price when comparing rosters to evaluate our team play, ie coaching and the relationship to corsi

I don't think the Caps d is better, but it's certainly not miles worse.

We're not talking Corsi and we're not talking coaching. We're talking rosters. And ours is as good as any in the East. I'd take our roster over anyone's.

Are we playing as well as any team in the East? **** no. But our goalie makes up for it.

 

[Hackett]

This is unreal. We don't even have a PPG forward, yet we have the best roster in our conference. Oh and apparently we have these 1st liners hidden somewhere to push our players down the depth chart, no names included cause that requires thinking for 2 seconds, but they're there.

Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Burakowsky-Kuznetsov-Brower
Laich-Ferh-Ward
Beagle-Latta-Wilson
Chimera

There's no ****ing way we have the same kind of firepower or depth as them. That 3rd line alone is getting praise every week. The same can be said about Tampa Bay that currently has the best 2nd line in the league.

You think I'm 5 years old by reading my posts? How hard is it to do like you to just read stats and complain all the time? No feedback, no solutions, just fire the coach cause he's the cause of everything.

And stop putting Price in there, I'm very much aware that he's possibly the leading Vesina and Hart contender, I'm talking about the whole team. Plus if analyse teams, you go position by position, not who's ranked n.1, that's just stupid and doesn't say crap. We have a slightly better D core, a much better goalie and a much weaker forward group. That doesn't make us the clear cut the best roster in the conference.

The way holtby is going this year, I hesitate to say "much better". He hasn't been this consistent since his rookie playoff run, when he got put on the map.

Any matchup in the eastern playoffs is going to be quite challenging, assuming the teams currently above the bar don't change.

 

[habsfanatics*]

We're not talking Corsi and we're not talking coaching. We're talking rosters. And ours is as good as any in the East. I'd take our roster over anyone's.

Are we playing as well as any team in the East? **** no. But our goalie makes up for it.

Your ****ing nuts then.

 

[Haburger]

Imagine where we d be in the standings if we had a good coach.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So... you say this:

I'm sure you would, because your incapable of rational debate.

And then you say this:

Your ****ing nuts then.

Thanks for coming out.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The way holtby is going this year, I hesitate to say "much better". He hasn't been this consistent since his rookie playoff run, when he got put on the map.

Any matchup in the eastern playoffs is going to be quite challenging, assuming the teams currently above the bar don't change.

Holtby's been good but you never know what you're going to get with that guy. Last year he was on and off all the time. I wouldn't want to go into the playoffs with him. Just can't trust the guy.

 

[Dominator13]

No you didn't. You said "this is children's stuff" gave no explanation for it and ran away.

Ran away? And that's the sentence your extract at the end of the whole thing? That's it I'm done. This is beyond ridiculous, keep your thoughts, I don't care. I have better things to talk about than us having the best team in the conference.

 

[Habs_Apostle]

Imagine where we d be in the standings if we had a good coach.

The debate is idiotic; some just feel inadequate next to Therrien's success and thus feel the need to disparage the man. But isn't their a thread for all things Therrien? Methinks Therrien runneth over.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ran away? And that's the sentence your extract at the end of the whole thing?

Yep, pretty much. I read "best 3rd line in the NHL" and nothing behind it. I read: Apples and oranges with no real reasoning behind why we can't stack rank players. I read that comparing OV to Price was somehow "childish"...

 

[Haburger]

The debate is idiotic; some just feel inadequate next to Therrien's success and thus feel the need to disparage the man. But isn't their a thread for all things Therrien? Methinks Therrien runneth over.

I think theres more trolls on here than we realize.who in their right mind actually thinks they know more than a nhl coach?

 

[TroyM]

Then you pretend this was not an attempt at slight of hand, anyways, I'm done with this discussion, it's clearly going nowhere.

Ran away? And that's the sentence your extract at the end of the whole thing? That's it I'm done. This is beyond ridiculous, keep your thoughts, I don't care. I have better things to talk about than us having the best team in the conference.

I'm amazed people still try it always ends this way, people giving up out of sheer exhaustion. You will literally never stop the reply train, the unearned feeling of superior intellect, the laughter and condescension, some people cannot accept others view points and be kind about it.

The debate is idiotic; some just feel inadequate next to Therrien's success and thus feel the need to disparage the man. But isn't their a thread for all things Therrien? Methinks Therrien runneth over.

Yarr, so many hated him coming in and have held firm to it ever since. I can only imagine when the inevitable coaching change happens as happens to every team the gloating and feeling of righteousness some will have. Just keep hating until eventually it turns around then finally that smug attitude will feel even more validated.

I think theres more trolls on here than we realize.who in their right mind actually thinks they know more than a nhl coach?

It makes me question maturity, intellect, age, etc of the posters who really do but it happens. I don't know if its access to cap info, NHL 15, or what that gives so much confidence and condescension. Respect is a quality lost on the internet too easily. One fella who is in this thread actually said he was a better fan than others for it too. Oy vey.

I agree. It's not about pure talent. There seems to be a lot of coherence in the organization from MB to MT through to the players. I think a very important factor in organizational success is confidence, and the players exude this, really seem to believe in MT and MB. I can't imagine why some want to disrupt that now. And then, of course, we have Price. Yes, we have holes, and I'm sure MB is working on them, but in the meantime there are many reasons for optimism.

I feel similar to this. I see a lot of that character they keep espousing coming through time and again. Seems like a really tight team of good people from top to bottom. I personally really enjoy that and enjoy watching and cheering for these guys for that reason. I have a lot of faith in MB and I think MT runs the personnel and personalities really well, even if I don't agree with every line change or something I don't freak out, there is more going on than I know and I see a team of good people pulling in the same direction which seems to be leading to success one way or another. Another high finish and hopefully exciting playoff run to come, pray to jeebus Price stays healthy and who knows what can happen. In a 30 team league with a cap that's the best I can hope for at this time while assuming and expecting MB to keep working his ass off to improve the team any way he can.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I think theres more trolls on here than we realize.who in their right mind actually thinks they know more than a nhl coach?

I don't think it's impossible, but I don't think it would be the posters who think they know things for certain. You need to be a bit flexible here.

 

[Dominator13]

Yep, pretty much. I read "best 3rd line in the NHL" and nothing behind it. I read: Apples and oranges with no real reasoning behind why we can't stack rank players. I read that comparing OV to Price was somehow "childish"...

Because all 3 are true you ...

Before we played the Caps everybody was talking about how no line cycles the puck and applies better forecheck than their 3rd line and how their younger players have all developed and going in a good direction. YOU on the other hand, have said NOTHING about why we're the better team other than "our D crushes them" , but hey, pulling out a sentence in a whole conversation is your thing, not mine.

This whole conversation is pointless because I could just restart the same thing but use Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh. We're in the mix with a superstar goalie saving our butts on a content basis. You want to moan about Corsi F% but you don't want to admit that we don't have the same scoring ability and shooters as the other upper echelon teams.

 

[Hoople]

Dale Weise and DD playing on our first line is not a reflection of the roster, it's a reflection of the coach. If somebody decides to play Malkin on the 4th line, that's a coaching problem, not a Malkin one.

The Capitals aren't close to being as good as we are. They have two guys who are fantastic and then it's a dropoff. Pittsburgh's in a silmilar situation but they have Letang.

Factor out Price and maybe Pittsburgh's as good as we are. We don't have their top end talent (nobody in the league does) but we've got a hell of a lot more depth. Factor in goaltending though and we're better than they are. Washington isn't close. I'd rather have Price than Ovechkin right now. I'd rather have Subban over Backstrom. We've got Pleks, Max, Galchenyuk, Markov.... no freaking way we're not as good as Washington is.

Yeah, I'm one of those folks who value actual facts. I'm crazy that way.

Does not surprise me at all that the above poster was one of the first to derail this thread with the tired and overused coach bashing.

On to the Red Wings on Monday. Go Habs Go!!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The debate is idiotic;

Not at all. It's framed that way by yourself because you don't want people criticizing the coach.

some just feel inadequate next to Therrien's success and thus feel the need to disparage the man.

No, people just think he's not a good coach and that this team shouldn't have to rely on its goalie the way it does.

But isn't their a thread for all things Therrien? Methinks Therrien runneth over.

I didn't derail anything. I said best roster in the East. People then jumped all over it. I've always said I think we've got a strong roster and when you factor in Price we're as good as anyone in the East.

Then folks got upset...

 

[Habsawce]

I say we go to the finals this year and lose. Then next year get off to a slow start, fire Therrien and then win the cup!

 

[Brainiac]

We're first in the East, with games in hand and a more than decent goal differential (+25). We're also good at 5 on 5, with a 1.19 GF/GA ratio.

We're the team that has allowed less goals in the whole freaking league. That's a stat you'll see pop up for most contending teams: defense wins championships, less scoring in the POs etc.

And here we are, arguing if we're a contender...

Yes, Carey Price has a lot to do with this. But last time I checked, the goalie is still part of the team. Remove Crosby or Malkin from PIT just for fun. Or Kane/Toews from CHI. See how it goes for them.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

 

[Habs_Apostle]

Better than:

Interesting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13141753

"Crying in babies is normal, but some cry "excessively" after the age of three months for reasons other than colic."

"There was an increased risk of ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), anxiety and depression as well as aggressive behaviour.

The research showed that a baby with more than one risk factor was even more likely to develop behavioural problems."

VERY interesting... Haha... anyways, enough playing, nice day here on the West Coast!

 

[Dominator13]

We're first in the East, with games in hand and a more than decent goal differential (+25). We're also good at 5 on 5, with a 1.19 GF/GA ratio.

We're the team that has allowed less goals in the whole freaking league. That's a stat you'll see pop up for most contending teams: defense wins championships, less scoring in the POs etc.

And here we are, arguing if we're a contender...

Yes, Carey Price has a lot to do with this. But last time I checked, the goalie is still part of the team. Remove Crosby or Malkin from PIT just for fun. Or Kane/Toews from CHI. See how it goes for them.

NOBODY is saying we have a bad team. But there is reasonable concern for our offense (or lack of in this matter). Our pp is 24th in the league and 21st in total goals for. Some blame the system, some blame the lack of quality players. Some blame a little bit of both, like me.

 

[holyhabs]

The debate is idiotic; some just feel inadequate next to Therrien's success and thus feel the need to disparage the man. But isn't their a thread for all things Therrien? Methinks Therrien runneth over.

how about we just settle for 12-13 therrien. the one that had this team playing in a way that was better in every category aside for pk %.

 

[TroyM]

Yes, positivity has become a joke to some. That is sad. If only we could all whine ad nauseum.

"Therrien/DD y u ruin my life"

I'll take more cheerleaders over grown men crying to themselves personally

 

[Brainiac]

NOBODY is saying we have a bad team. But there is reasonable concern for our offense (or lack of in this matter). Our pp is 24th in the league and 21st in total goals for. Some blame the system, some blame the lack of quality players. Some blame a little bit of both, like me.

I agree scoring is a concern. But even then. Last year we went deep in the POs with our top scorers (Patches and Vanek) playing below expectations.

Of course if you add some scoring, it's not even a question anymore. But I say that even without any additions, we have a real chance at getting out of the East and we could match up well against some Western teams.