Post-Game Talk: #19 | Flames at Flyers | November 21, 2022 | 7:00 PM |

[Beef Invictus]

People are down on York, but this team is crying out for a top 4 dman who can QB a PP. It's clearly not Provorov despite the endless chances he's been given.

When he fired the puck into Farabee's legs last night, you really had to laugh.

Why try something new when you can see if the thing that always fails maybe suddenly works?

 

[Cody Webster]

People are down on York, but this team is crying out for a top 4 dman who can QB a PP. It's clearly not Provorov despite the endless chances he's been given.

When he fired the puck into Farabee's legs last night, you really had to laugh.

Well do I have good news for you...there's a revolving door between Philly and Lehigh and York should be walking through that door any day now...or so we've been told

 

[deadhead]

This is a year to be patient, it's obvious that Torts is evaluating everyone, and the real changes will be at the TDL and then this summer, as they clear out the players Torts doesn't see as "keepers."

Quibbling about playing time in November is an exercise in futility, a lot of players in LHV will probably get extended looks in the spring if they show they're ready (by being one of the best players in the AHL, if you can't hit in AAA, you're not going to hit in the Show). Right now it's about evaluating the current roster.

The major changes will start at the TDL, but I think it'll be this summer, it's hard to trade someone like Provorov mid-season, but if the cap goes up this summer, there will be a lot of interest. I don't expect wholesale changes, but by next fall there could be a half dozen or more prospects starting. The post-TDL roster will give us a sense who they like.

All this talk about "favorites," Hayes gets demoted to wing, Deslauriers has the lowest TOI of any forward. Risto is on the 3rd pair.
I think Yandle would have lasted a week with Torts.

 

[Curufinwe]

What gets him fired?

The 4 year anniversary of his hiring is December, 4th. One day after they play the league's 2nd best team.

If the Flyers lose every game between now and then in regulation, they will have a P% of .360 which should be enough for a bottom 2 position.

11/23 at WSH
11/25 PIT
11/26 at NYI
11/29 NYI
12/1 TB
12/3 NJ

 

[bennysflyers16]

It is very obvious which players Torts wants, next year could actually be worse .

We will finish last, lose the lottery, and Sabres will reap the benefits of the 1st pick in 2nd round.

 

[dragonoffrost]

It’s hard to believe that there are worse teams in the League than this bunch.

Only because of Cartah Haht's heatah...

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is a year to be patient, it's obvious that Torts is evaluating everyone, and the real changes will be at the TDL and then this summer, as they clear out the players Torts doesn't see as "keepers."

Quibbling about playing time in November is an exercise in futility, a lot of players in LHV will probably get extended looks in the spring if they show they're ready (by being one of the best players in the AHL, if you can't hit in AAA, you're not going to hit in the Show). Right now it's about evaluating the current roster.

The major changes will start at the TDL, but I think it'll be this summer, it's hard to trade someone like Provorov mid-season, but if the cap goes up this summer, there will be a lot of interest. I don't expect wholesale changes, but by next fall there could be a half dozen or more prospects starting. The post-TDL roster will give us a sense who they like.

All this talk about "favorites," Hayes gets demoted to wing, Deslauriers has the lowest TOI of any forward. Risto is on the 3rd pair.
I think Yandle would have lasted a week with Torts.

Tortorella isn't the general manager.

 

[BernieParent]

Tortorella isn't the general manager.

As if Tortorella doesn't bend Fletcher's ear about the team's direction. He may have vaulted over many in the long line of Wormtongues.

 

[Beef Invictus]

As if Tortorella doesn't bend Fletcher's ear about the team's direction. He may have vaulted over many in the long line of Wormtongues.

He certainly does, but these things are all Fletcher's decision in the end.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

This is a year to be patient, it's obvious that Torts is evaluating everyone, and the real changes will be at the TDL and then this summer, as they clear out the players Torts doesn't see as "keepers."

Quibbling about playing time in November is an exercise in futility, a lot of players in LHV will probably get extended looks in the spring if they show they're ready (by being one of the best players in the AHL, if you can't hit in AAA, you're not going to hit in the Show). Right now it's about evaluating the current roster.

The major changes will start at the TDL, but I think it'll be this summer, it's hard to trade someone like Provorov mid-season, but if the cap goes up this summer, there will be a lot of interest. I don't expect wholesale changes, but by next fall there could be a half dozen or more prospects starting. The post-TDL roster will give us a sense who they like.

All this talk about "favorites," Hayes gets demoted to wing, Deslauriers has the lowest TOI of any forward. Risto is on the 3rd pair.
I think Yandle would have lasted a week with Torts.

Yeah, because let's let the GM who made this mess be responsible for the rebuild, when clearly the r-e-t-a-r-d has no semblance or clue on if he's rebuilding or if he's competing. Clearly he doesn't have testicles to tell David Scott that they need to rebuild and clearly he capitulates to the senior advisors. Yep, that's a good plan......

 

[Cody Webster]

This is a year to be patient, it's obvious that Torts is evaluating everyone, and the real changes will be at the TDL and then this summer, as they clear out the players Torts doesn't see as "keepers."

Quibbling about playing time in November is an exercise in futility, a lot of players in LHV will probably get extended looks in the spring if they show they're ready (by being one of the best players in the AHL, if you can't hit in AAA, you're not going to hit in the Show). Right now it's about evaluating the current roster.

The major changes will start at the TDL, but I think it'll be this summer, it's hard to trade someone like Provorov mid-season, but if the cap goes up this summer, there will be a lot of interest. I don't expect wholesale changes, but by next fall there could be a half dozen or more prospects starting. The post-TDL roster will give us a sense who they like.

All this talk about "favorites," Hayes gets demoted to wing, Deslauriers has the lowest TOI of any forward. Risto is on the 3rd pair.
I think Yandle would have lasted a week with Torts.

Oh, so now it isn't a revolving door like you told us it'd be? Got it

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Hitting on firsts is obviously important. But teams like Tampa and Chicago show the importance of hitting with some frequency in the other rounds too (and shrewd cap management). Just another reminder that the Flyers had the opportunity to take Coots' linemate Ondrej Palat at the end of the 2011 draft and opted for a pure face puncher instead.

People are down on York, but this team is crying out for a top 4 dman who can QB a PP. It's clearly not Provorov despite the endless chances he's been given.

When he fired the puck into Farabee's legs last night, you really had to laugh.

They also have a swift puck mover who broke WHL records and put up a pile of ES points last season who apparently still needs to "earn" his PP time six seasons into his NHL career.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Oh, so now it isn't a revolving door like you told us it'd be? Got it

The posts have moved to revolving door after the trade deadline....FIFA at it's finest!

 

[deadhead]

Well, given we've played Hodgson, MacEwen, Laczynski, J Cates, Willman, and Lycksell so far this season, the only LHV forwards who haven't made an appearance are Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers and Marody (Brooks has been injured).

Defense has been treated differently, partially b/c I think Torts wants an extended look at the players on the roster before making changes. And most organizations are more conservative with young defensemen who aren't uber-offensive (we can live with their mistakes) talents.

 

[Rebels57]

Here's the list I was talking about. Hrudey said the Flyers' poor 1st round drafting is one reason why they are where they are.

NHL goals scored by Flyers' 1st rounders since 2016.

Rubtsov, 0
Patrick, 32
Frost, 9
Farabee, 48
O'Brien, 0
York, 3
Foerster, 0
Gauthier, 0

Total, 92.

Other teams over the same period -

Devils, 184
Rangers, 133
Canadiens, 132
Sabres, 114
Canes, 191
Hawks, 52 (DeBrincat at #39 overall has 165)

I just want to add that it goes beyond poor drafting and that their horrific development process should also be mentioned.

Frost and York are examples of players that would have contributed more so far if not for the organizational incompetence.

Patrick was pretty much down to bad luck as much as I want to dump on the Flyers over him.

Rubtsov and JOB are picks I didn't like from Day 1.

Foerster is already good enough to play on this horrid Flyers teams top 6 but he's gotta go through the ringer with Lappy first. He will probably get ruined too between Fletcher, Lappy, and Torts.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Well, given we've played Hodgson, MacEwen, Laczynski, J Cates, Willman, and Lycksell so far this season, the only LHV forwards who haven't made an appearance are Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers and Marody (Brooks has been injured).

Defense has been treated differently, partially b/c I think Torts wants an extended look at the players on the roster before making changes. And most organizations are more conservative with young defensemen who aren't uber-offensive (we can live with their mistakes) talents.

And as soon as the vets got healthy all those listed above except MacEwen got healthy they all got sent down... go figure..

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, given we've played Hodgson, MacEwen, Laczynski, J Cates, Willman, and Lycksell so far this season, the only LHV forwards who haven't made an appearance are Foerster, Wisdom, Desnoyers and Marody (Brooks has been injured).

Defense has been treated differently, partially b/c I think Torts wants an extended look at the players on the roster before making changes. And most organizations are more conservative with young defensemen who aren't uber-offensive (we can live with their mistakes) talents.

Only because injuries forced it, not because they wanted to.

Defense has been different because it has been healthier. Not because of some grand development plan.

 

[deadhead]

I just want to add that it goes beyond poor drafting and that their horrific development process should also be mentioned.

Frost and York are examples of players that would have contributed more so far if not for the organizational incompetence.

Patrick was pretty much down to bad luck as much as I want to dump on the Flyers over him.

Rubtsov and JOB are picks I didn't like from Day 1.

Foerster is already good enough to play on this horrid Flyers teams top 6 but he's gotta go through the ringer with Lappy first. He will probably get ruined too between Fletcher, Lappy, and Torts.

Frost is obviously overrated, it took Cates two weeks to become a better center with MacEwen as his RW, Nuff said. He's 23, let's can the excuses, Torts is giving him enough rope to hang himself (professionally), at some point you have to do it.

York played his way off the team in TC, he just looked bad and got every opportunity to win the 3LD job. Don't know if he got complacent, was nursing a nagging injury he kept hidden, or just wasn't prepared for a Torts' TC. He's scoring on the PP, but not standing out at 5x5 so far in the AHL, so there's work to be done.

I want to see more of Foerster, but the one AHL game I watched he did not stand out to me, his skating was meh, he looked good in rookie camp against kids, not so much in TC and not yet in the AHL. But he's 20, no rush.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost is obviously overrated, it took Cates two weeks to become a better center with MacEwen as his RW, Nuff said. He's 23, let's can the excuses, Torts is giving him enough rope to hang himself (professionally), at some point you have to do it.

York played his way off the team in TC, he just looked bad and got every opportunity to win the 3LD job. Don't know if he got complacent, was nursing a nagging injury he kept hidden, or just wasn't prepared for a Torts' TC. He's scoring on the PP, but not standing out at 5x5 so far in the AHL, so there's work to be done.

I want to see more of Foerster, but the one AHL game I watched he did not stand out to me, his skating was meh, he looked good in rookie camp against kids, not so much in TC and not yet in the AHL. But he's 20, no rush.

Cates PDO: 104
Frost PDO: 100

Shall we add more context like examining usage and rates more closely? Or would that be too inconvenient for your narrative that Tortorella and Fletcher are geniuses? Because I've gotta say, it doesn't support your "Cates is the better center" tale when you take a comprehensive look at them.

If management is so stupid that they think York played his way off the team in summer practice and that is more important than actual game samples, then management should be fired from top to bottom.

In general they haven't done a single one of the things you've claimed they would.

 

[deadhead]

Cates PDO: 104
Frost PDO: 100

Shall we add more context like examining usage and rates more closely? Or would that be too inconvenient for your narrative that Tortorella and Fletcher are geniuses? Because I've gotta say, it doesn't support your "Cates is the better center" tale when you take a comprehensive look at them.

If management is so stupid that they think York played his way off the team in summer practice and that is more important than actual game samples, then management should be fired from top to bottom.

In general they haven't done a single one of the things you've claimed they would.

PDO doesn't impact metrics, just raw scoring.

I showed the players both centers had as linemates the last 8 games (before Calgary) - pretty similar group, unless you suddenly want to credit MacEwen with being more than an AHL plus player.

Right now, any Flyers center has to play with substandard linemates, explain Sedlak's success carrying Deslauriers and Bellows around.

 

[Beef Invictus]

PDO doesn't impact metrics, just raw scoring.

I showed the players both centers had as linemates the last 8 games (before Calgary) - pretty similar group, unless you suddenly want to credit MacEwen with being more than an AHL plus player.

Right now, any Flyers center has to play with substandard linemates, explain Sedlak's success carrying Deslauriers and Bellows around.

You understand that a combination of higher shooting luck and higher save percentage goes into PDO, right? So when there's that much deviation above 100, something is bound to come back to earth. I know you know this. This is a lesson Hagg taught you annually.


What success from Sedlak? Are you seeing success? I'm not. I just watched his line getting routinely trapped badly behind their own net. This happens a lot. By the way, Sedlak: 103 PDO. His lines are fine at endless perimeter grinding though, which is certainly Tortorella's preferred form of hockey in all zones.

What you've done is carefully omitted context to create a narrative you want to tell. It's very deceptive, and purposefully so. Once you actually look at everything, your fairytales collapse.

 

[deadhead]

Since I don't talk about +/- PDO is irrelevant.

Sedlak CF 50.00%, xGF 55.65% carrying the dreck of the roster on his back.
Now he's in a sheltered 4th line role (though he's gotten some 3rd line minutes) but if they were that bad, they'd be targeted on the road.
Sedlak just shows you don't have to be cratered just because you're centering bottom six/AHL plus forwards.

 

[Magua]

Expected +/- anyone?

 

[deadhead]

You got to go with the data you have, when Risto has bad metrics, SHOUT SHOUT, LET IT ALL OUT, when he has a good stretch, silence is golden . . .

Sedlak has managed to thrive, you can see it watching the games as well.

As far as the lack of entry passes, let's face it, right now the only forwards capable of regular zone entries are Hayes and Tippett.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Expected +/- anyone?

#facts ^^^