Post-Game Talk: 18/19 Endless boilerplate arguments regarding Management thread | Pt. V. Oil up your mouse wheel.

[mossey3535]

Ya, no I don't agree with that.

Here's something to chew on:

2008-2013 drafts:

League average GP per pick: 87.1
St.dev: 149.9
N: 1126 picks

Canucks average GP per pick: 41.4
St.dev: 90.2
N: 37 picks

Mean difference has a P value of .0654 or nearly significant at 95% CI, significant at 90% CI. The effect size is .369 (cohen's d), which can be interpreted as about halfway between a small and medium effect size. The numbers bear out the Canucks were either extremely unlucky or extremely bad at drafting. I view it as the former, you clearly view it as the latter. Not sure we are gonna resolve this anytime soon.

Edit: Also for further context, here's how NHL teams stack up for average GP/pick from 2008-2013:

I'll concede that Vancouver's regular season success put them at a disadvantage, particularly in the first round but still, those are some grizzly results.

In general good work but when you say "nearly significant at 95%", it doesn't convince me. 95% CI is the bare minimum I think is credible. If it's not significant at that level it's probably random variance, as Melvin asserts (although I disagree with some of his reasons for asserting that).

 

[CanaFan]

In general good work but when you say "nearly significant at 95%", it doesn't convince me. 95% CI is the bare minimum I think is credible. If it's not significant at that level it's probably random variance, as Melvin asserts (although I disagree with some of his reasons for asserting that).

For an academic publication, sure. To have a strong sense that a team is underperforming? Dude, being 93.5% sure is no different than being 95% sure. I’m not letting 1.5% of confidence completely change a result. Besides the effect size (cohens d) shows a small-to-medium effect as well, which suggests it is not random chance driving the observed differences.

I still owe Melvin a response to his post, as he clearly put in some time constructing it and I want to do the same in reading and responding. It’s an interesting discussion and I’m open to the numbers telling me otherwise but it’s not as simple as saying 5% p value is convincing, 6.5% is unconvincing.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Remember when Benning signed all those talentless plugs, some to big money, because "we need toughness to make this a safe work environment for our young players" and all the Benning Bro's jumped on that and agreed? "Yeah Yeah! Guddy and Roussy and Beagle, Schaller, Sutter....we need these guys to make it safe for the kids."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't you dare ever talk about shit you know nothing about again. We told you so.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Remember when Benning signed all those talentless plugs, some to big money, because "we need toughness to make this a safe work environment for our young players" and all the Benning Bro's jumped on that and agreed? "Yeah Yeah! Guddy and Roussy and Beagle, Schaller, Sutter....we need these guys to make it safe for the kids."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't you dare ever talk about **** you know nothing about again. We told you so.

So youre happy that our Franchise Player got a head injury just so you can gloat and say i told you so ?? Seens immature. Cant judge tho cuz i dont actually know how old you are.

Yikes, why even be a Canuck fan ?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

So youre happy that our Franchise Player got a head injury just so you can gloat and say i told you so ?? Seens immature. Cant judge tho cuz i dont actually know how old you are.

Yikes, why even be a Canuck fan ?

No, he's happy that he's vindicated based on responding to countless stupid posts here. The only immature thing is trying to validate poor trades and acquisitions based on an era of hockey that is all but dead.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

No, he's happy that he's vindicated based on responding to countless stupid posts here. The only immature thing is trying to validate poor trades and acquisitions based on an era of hockey that is all but dead.

When someone puts more value on being "vindicated" over a franchise player getting injured then theres really no reason to be a fan anymore.

To y2k its more important to be right even if it means Pettersson takes a head injury. IMO opinion it would be time to follow a different team.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

When someone puts more value on being "vindicated" over a franchise player getting injured then theres really no reason to be a fan anymore.

To y2k its more important to be right even if it means Pettersson takes a head injury. IMO opinion it would be time to follow a different team.

You're missing the point entirely. Y2K is not taking joy in the fact that Pettersson got injured. He's saying that the lack of push back and response from our 'tough guys' means that they are not fulfilling a role that they were brought in for. People defended the veteran FA signings and Gudbranson trade because they are tough, can hit, stand up for younger team mates, etc. They didn't do that last game. This is the response to the injury, not the injury itself. It kind of blows my mind that you are unable to separate the two.

You're moving the goal posts to try to make him look like the bad guy to distract from the actual point he's making. Classic straw man argument.

 

[Cancuks]

De la Rose is on waivers, at 900k cap hit Canucks would be foolish not to put in a claim.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

De la Rose is on waivers, at 900k cap hit Canucks would be foolish not to put in a claim.

Then waive who when Beagle comes back?

Is he better than Leipsic
or Motte?

Granlund is proving his value at PK so he isnt getting moved.

 

[Cancuks]

By then we'll have more injuries so it won't be a concern.

 

[y2kcanucks]

So youre happy that our Franchise Player got a head injury just so you can gloat and say i told you so ?? Seens immature. Cant judge tho cuz i dont actually know how old you are.

Yikes, why even be a Canuck fan ?

Where do you get that I'm happy that Pettersson got hurt? This is where reading comprehension solves a lot of problems. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said nothing about that. I'm pissed he got hurt. What I'm pointing out is all that crap that Benning talked about creating a safe work environment for our youth was complete bullshit. All that crap people like YOU talked about, justifying several bad contracts like Gudbranson's, was just bullshit. You said this wouldn't happen. It did. You were wrong. Benning was wrong. I...no, WE (because there are several of us who were on the same page) told you so!

 

[RandV]

When someone puts more value on being "vindicated" over a franchise player getting injured then theres really no reason to be a fan anymore.

To y2k its more important to be right even if it means Pettersson takes a head injury. IMO opinion it would be time to follow a different team.

These kind of posts always bug me. Whether it's talking about the team tanking or not, or in this case Pettersson taking a head injury, nothing anyone says on here actually has any effect on the real outcome. There's no grand karma scale where if enough fans think positively of the Canucks we'll start winning again.

What can be very real on the other hand, is if you voiced an opinion on something and end up being proven right about it. To turn that around and say 'well you must really not be a fan then' is just a cheap cop out.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Then waive who when Beagle comes back?

Is he better than Leipsic
or Motte?

Granlund is proving his value at PK so he isnt getting moved.

How about waive Beagle? Schaller? Motte? Sutter? Roussell? Granlund? Plenty of crap on this team that can be shipped out.

JDR isn't anyone special though. Not someone I'd be upset about if the Canucks don't pick up, though he is exactly the type of player Benning seems to enjoy giving up picks and prospects for. Only negative against him, in Benning's eyes based on his history here, is that JDR was drafted in the 2nd round and not the 1st.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

How about waive Beagle? Schaller? Motte? Sutter? Roussell? Granlund? Plenty of crap on this team that can be shipped out.

JDR isn't anyone special though. Not someone I'd be upset about if the Canucks don't pick up, though he is exactly the type of player Benning seems to enjoy giving up picks and prospects for. Only negative against him, in Benning's eyes based on his history here, is that JDR was drafted in the 2nd round and not the 1st.

Again youre just making my point for me.

1. You hate almost the entire roster and our players.

2. You clearly hate management

3. You cheer when franchise players get injured because it makes management look bad and allows you to puff your chest and say i told you so.

[mod]

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Predicition:

Benning gets fired by draft.

Yzerman to Det
Holland to Van
Gillis to Seattle

 

[Askel]

Again youre just making my point for me.

1. You hate almost the entire roster and our players.

2. You clearly hate management

3. You cheer when franchise players get injured because it makes management look bad and allows you to puff your chest and say i told you so.

[mod]

He hates useless plugs and wants to rebuild from the ground up, and like many of us is disappointed the our GM is a moron.. Also he didn't cheer when a franchise player got injured, read his post again FFS

 

[y2kcanucks]

Again youre just making my point for me.

1. You hate almost the entire roster and our players.

2. You clearly hate management

3. You cheer when franchise players get injured because it makes management look bad and allows you to puff your chest and say i told you so.

[mod]

Please show me where I cheered for Pettersson's injury? Can you please stop making bullshit up? I know that's the basis of your arguments but when you start making things up about what I'm saying it pisses me off.

Are you not capable of comprehending my point? Others have explained to you. I've explained it to you. Either you're intentionally ignoring the explanations or you're incapable of comprehending what we're saying. Which is it? I'd like to know because if it's simply a case where you're not able to understand what we're saying I can try to explain in another way. And if you're just choosing to ignore the explanation and are just trolling then I won't waste more time with you.

For the record, pointing out that I, and others, were right all along when people like you continually pushed the "we need these guys because they're tough and protect our kids" agenda when you've been proven wrong doesn't mean we're happy about our players getting injured. It's simply stating that you were wrong. We told you that you would be wrong, and now we're pointing it out. But it seems more to me like you just defend Benning no matter what, and even when you're wrong you just deflect. Facts don't seem to matter.

 

[tyhee]

Again youre just making my point for me.

...

3. You cheer when franchise players get injured because it makes management look bad and allows you to puff your chest and say i told you so.

[mod]

Please quote the words from a post of y2k which you say is a cheer over a franchise player getting injured. As many have pointed out to you, criticizing those who said he'd be protected is not a cheer for the injury. Please quote a cheer for the injury.

If you can't (and I'd be shocked if you find something) then why do you persist in making crazy claims?

I'll be really, really surprised if you even try to look for a quote at all.

 

[F A N]

To be fair, y2k wanted the Canucks to draft Vilardi. Had the Canucks drafted Vilardi, it would be a back injury we're talking about.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

To be fair, y2k wanted the Canucks to draft Vilardi. Had the Canucks drafted Vilardi, it would be a back injury we're talking about.

Are you tho, being fair?

 

[Addison Rae]

To be fair, y2k wanted the Canucks to draft Vilardi. Had the Canucks drafted Vilardi, it would be a back injury we're talking about.

Vilardi is going to be a solid player if he’s healthy long term, absolutely Pettersson was a better pick but picking Vilardi is nowhere near as bad as taking Virtanen or Juolevi yet you still defend the guy who did on a hourly basis.

 

[NuxFan09]

Predicition:

Benning gets fired by draft.

Yzerman to Det
Holland to Van
Gillis to Seattle

I want no part of Ken Holland. Dude had a great run in Detroit but is past it.

 

[Zippgunn]

Where do you get that I'm happy that Pettersson got hurt? This is where reading comprehension solves a lot of problems. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said nothing about that. I'm pissed he got hurt. What I'm pointing out is all that crap that Benning talked about creating a safe work environment for our youth was complete bull****. All that crap people like YOU talked about, justifying several bad contracts like Gudbranson's, was just bull****. You said this wouldn't happen. It did. You were wrong. Benning was wrong. I...no, WE (because there are several of us who were on the same page) told you so!

It appears that you and a whole lot of the haters don't understand that Benning's signing guys like Guddy only meant that it would be less likely that players would try to take advantage of our young stars. Nobody ever said that there was any sort of GUARANTEE that nobody would ever hit one of them because, of course, such a statement would be bordering on the absurd. Needless to say nobody can tell just how many cheap hits guys like Guddy have prevented because they didn't happen and castigating guys like him for not initiating a Bertuzzi-style retaliation is to show massive ignorance of how pro hockey players think (especially when they don't even know for sure what has happened on the ice). In short to say that Guddy has "failed" because somebody ultimately hit our young superstar (something that was guaranteed to happen someday) is incredibly stupid.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Please quote the words from a post of y2k which you say is a cheer over a franchise player getting injured. As many have pointed out to you, criticizing those who said he'd be protected is not a cheer for the injury. Please quote a cheer for the injury.

If you can't (and I'd be really, really surprised if you find something) then why do you persist in making crazy claims?

I'll be really, really surprised if you even try to look for a quote at all.

I kinda hope he wastes his time looking for this quote, but let's be honest we all know he won't bother to look, nor will he change his position. Some people just aren't interested in factually honest discussions.

 

[RobertKron]

I kinda hope he wastes his time looking for this quote, but let's be honest we all know he won't bother to look, nor will he change his position. Some people just aren't interested in factually honest discussions.

WHY DO YOU KEEP ENGAGING WITH THEM AS THOUGH THEY DO