GDT: 151110 Islanders @ Sharks CSNCA 7:30

[Bleedred]

I did say I was paraphrasing.

I still have an issue with it. We are talking about one shift. ONE!

I feel like the team just doesn't actually critique itself. They say the same stuff every time, but nothing seems to get done about it. With TMac you could at least sense he was frustrated or angry. DeBoer just seems casual and like he's thinking 'oh well'.

I know a way to really get DeBoer's feathers ruffled.

Someone needs to get Kurz or Pashelka to push him about certain issues. He might not start getting annoyed but if they keep at it, he'll be steaming by later in the season. I'd imagine Kurz wouldn't do it, he's a lot closer to a team employee or at least more affiliated with the team than a guy like Pashelka is, who writes for the paper.

I remember the Devils getting scored on THREE games in a row in the last minute with the other team's goalie pulled in 13-14. He exploded on one of the writers after the second time it happened. He was actually really sad and deflated the third time it happened and blamed bad luck.

One time one of the writers called him out on why the team was so bad at the shootout and told him that Crosby (I think?) told him that their team practices the shootout. And Pete got all mad and told him that maybe he should apply for a coaching job.

 

[SactoShark]

The goalie coaches on both sides will be having fun with this one.

Greiss screwed himself out of his second career shutout tonight. I think his first was against Colorado when he was a Shark, during that last lockout season.

Wow he actually had two shutouts with Phoenix in 13-14.

Greiss played very well with the Coyotes down that stretch, while the team was playing terribly.

He's not a #1, but he's stuck around for a good reason. So far, he's doing better this season than ever.

 

[Sysreq]

Thornton ain't calling the lines. Though, I'm not sure I wouldn't like to see him try it.

After spending over a decade here with a career spanning 1300 NHL games and nearly the same number of points not the mention the 7-times he was selected to the all-star game (plus one he captained), won both the hart and art ross, captained a team to the President's trophy, won gold in the olympics and the world cup, well, after all that, I think that Joe Thornton gets a lot of input over who he plays with. Are you going to tell him no?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

After spending over a decade here with a career spanning 1300 NHL games and nearly the same number of points not the mention the 7-times he was selected to the all-star game (plus one he captained), won both the hart and art ross, captained a team to the President's trophy, won gold in the olympics and the world cup, well, after all that, I think that Joe Thornton gets a lot of input over who he plays with. Are you going to tell him no?

Absolutely I would tell him no. A coach's job is to coach and make the lines as he thinks is going to work. The player's job is to play. Inmates don't need to run the asylum. Besides, DW already addressed something like this when he moved Burns back to D. That issue wasn't everything that went into that particular decision but I'm pretty sure it was part of it since Thornton wanted to play with Burns from day one of that decision to play him at forward.

 

[Bleedred]

Greiss played very well with the Coyotes down that stretch, while the team was playing terribly.

He's not a starter, but he's stuck around for a good reason. So far, he's doing better this season than ever.

I don't think he's very good, he was always prone to giving up a bad softy at the wrong times and a lot of Sharks fans overrated him.

He's an average NHL backup at best. He wasn't bad with the Coyotes that year, but I'm still trying to figure out why they didn't bring him back? It worked out well for them cause they got more for a Dubnyk hot streak than they would have on a Greiss hot streak.

And he really didn't play well with the Coyotes down the stretch after looking at his splits that year. He played really good early on, then wasn't very good later on. From what I remember, he had to play for Smith after he had a season ending injury. So he had to start the last couple weeks of games, he's really not a starter though. So he probably wasn't gonna be good playing all those games in a row.

As far as his start this year, it's only 7 games and he was no better than Martin Jones this year. The guy who so many people are blasting right now, and Jones has played 4 more games than him this year.

 

[Bleedred]

After spending over a decade here with a career spanning 1300 NHL games and nearly the same number of points not the mention the 7-times he was selected to the all-star game (plus one he captained), won both the hart and art ross, captained a team to the President's trophy, won gold in the olympics and the world cup, well, after all that, I think that Joe Thornton gets a lot of input over who he plays with. Are you going to tell him no?

DeBoer didn't seem to mind playing Steve Bernier with Patrik Elias (which NEVER worked), after Elias was quoted as saying that he likes to play with Bernier.

Whether Elias went to Pete and said he wanted to play there, we don't exactly know this for sure. The funny thing was the only good game I ever remember them playing together was a game against the Sharks in March of 2014. Sharks won 4-2 in that game, maybe 5-2 with an empty net. but I think Elias and Bernier were part of both Devils goals that game.

One of the more baffling things DeBoer did was gave Brodeur a game over Schneider, because Brodeur told Pete that he ''Wanted'' that game. I'm pretty sure DeBoer was even quoted as saying before the game started that Marty had told him he ''Wanted'' this game. That was actually the very next game after Brodeur was hit in the head in San Jose by a Brent Burns slapshot. It was 2 nights and a cross country trip home later. This annoyed almost every Devils fan. Brodeur let in a game winning softy that night and never even had an extended hot streak for the rest of his career after that Burns slapshot. And even after all that, DeBoer started Brodeur the next game and Schneider made comments about being disappointed and thought he was gonna be starter that day. This was after Schneider had to sit for a week on a 35 save performance against LAK, where he allowed 1 goal.

This has nothing to do with what goes on now, but I wouldn't be shocked if a player like Thornton got to make certain decisions.

 

[Sysreq]

Absolutely I would tell him no. A coach's job is to coach and make the lines as he thinks is going to work. The player's job is to play. Inmates don't need to run the asylum. Besides, DW already addressed something like this when he moved Burns back to D. That issue wasn't everything that went into that particular decision but I'm pretty sure it was part of it since Thornton wanted to play with Burns from day one of that decision to play him at forward.

You and I have very different views on the inner workings of a hockey team. I know I have worked with those grizzled veteran types that no simple manager would dare to disturb. Pulling people randomly for a day or two simply because some "high priority" issue arose. Even as a manager myself, I didn't dare dissuade them, not because I was afraid to do so but mostly because they had my trust and respect. Peter DeBoer is a coach - when a player like Joe says that he believes he will perform better with Melker over Donskoi - well, you simply have to listen. If DeBoer chooses to ignore him, he is choosing to ignore one of his best and most trusted resources. It would be downright foolish to do anything but listen.

So that, compounded with the fact that DeBoer has basically never seen Melker play, makes me fairly certain that it was Joe pulling the trigger. DeBoer had already made his choice. After 5 minutes and 2 goal's not related to Donskoi or Karlsson at all, it would be foolish to assume he had formed a drastically different opinion. If anything, DeBoer would want to keep Donskoi up there to keep his mark on the lines. That first line tonight was pulled directly from last year's coach. As a new coach, and after this many games and changes, that is never a good sign. Really kind of shows that maybe this new system isn't exactly working.

 

[Sysreq]

DeBoer didn't seem to mind playing Steve Bernier with Patrik Elias (which NEVER worked), after Elias was quoted as saying that he likes to play with Bernier.

Whether Elias went to Pete and said he wanted to play there, we don't exactly know this for sure. The funny thing was the only good game I ever remember them playing together was a game against the Sharks in March of 2014. Sharks won 4-2 in that game, maybe 5-2 with an empty net. but I think Elias and Bernier were part of both Devils goals that game.

One of the more baffling things DeBoer did was gave Brodeur a game over Schneider, because Brodeur told Pete that he ''Wanted'' that game. I'm pretty sure DeBoer was even quoted as saying before the game started that Marty had told him he ''Wanted'' this game. That was actually the very next game after Brodeur was hit in the head in San Jose by a Brent Burns slapshot. It was 2 nights and a cross country trip home later. This annoyed almost every Devils fan. Brodeur let in a game winning softy that night and never even had an extended hot streak for the rest of his career after that Burns slapshot. And even after all that, DeBoer started Brodeur the next game and Schneider made comments about being disappointed and thought he was gonna be starter that day. This was after Schneider had to sit for a week on a 35 save performance against LAK, where he allowed 1 goal.

This has nothing to do with what goes on now, but I wouldn't be shocked if a player like Thornton got to make certain decisions.

I'm not sure if I misread you, or maybe misunderstood, but I think we have come to the same conclusion. Glad to see he has a track record In any case, I think you would have to be nuts to ignore Joe.

 

[Alwalys]

so... let's talk about the 2 powerplays that the 2nd line played.
that was disastrous. totally kept any momentum from forming.

 

[SactoShark]

I don't think he's very good, he was always prone to giving up a bad softy at the wrong times and a lot of Sharks fans overrated him.

He's an average NHL backup at best. He wasn't bad with the Coyotes that year, but I'm still trying to figure out why they didn't bring him back? It worked out well for them cause they got more for a Dubnyk hot streak than they would have on a Greiss hot streak.

And he really didn't play well with the Coyotes down the stretch after looking at his splits that year. He played really good early on, then wasn't very good later on. From what I remember, he had to play for Smith after he had a season ending injury. So he had to start the last couple weeks of games, he's really not a starter though. So he probably wasn't gonna be good playing all those games in a row.

As far as his start this year, it's only 7 games and he was no better than Martin Jones this year. The guy who so many people are blasting right now, and Jones has played 4 more games than him this year.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, but I did not say Greiss is "very good." I think he's a serviceable backup.

He played well when that year for the Yotes when their team played terrible. That's what actually happened that season. That's not something you can see now. It's just the way it happened.

And why didn't they bring Greiss back? There's a hundred guys in line for that job. How did he get another job? He was better than another hundred guys. Such is the life of a backup goalie. Especially one that remains in the NHL.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You and I have very different views on the inner workings of a hockey team. I know I have worked with those grizzled veteran types that no simple manager would dare to disturb. Pulling people randomly for a day or two simply because some "high priority" issue arose. Even as a manager myself, I didn't dare dissuade them, not because I was afraid to do so but mostly because they had my trust and respect. Peter DeBoer is a coach - when a player like Joe says that he believes he will perform better with Melker over Donskoi - well, you simply have to listen. If DeBoer chooses to ignore him, he is choosing to ignore one of his best and most trusted resources. It would be downright foolish to do anything but listen.

So that, compounded with the fact that DeBoer has basically never seen Melker play, makes me fairly certain that it was Joe pulling the trigger. DeBoer had already made his choice. After 5 minutes and 2 goal's not related to Donskoi or Karlsson at all, it would be foolish to assume he had formed a drastically different opinion. If anything, DeBoer would want to keep Donskoi up there to keep his mark on the lines. That first line tonight was pulled directly from last year's coach. As a new coach, and after this many games and changes, that is never a good sign. Really kind of shows that maybe this new system isn't exactly working.

Listening and making the decision are two different things. Input is taken from all sources including players but if you can't tell your top player no even if that top player thinks it's a good idea but it may not be, you're already setting yourself up and the team for failure.

You make a lot of unfounded assumptions based on your preconceived notions of the whole situation. Coaches watch tape of players in years past when they go into a new gig. It may have been planned from day one to keep Karlsson with the Joes but his injury prevented that and since this was Melker's first game, he was planning on easing Melker into that spot since he's only played two games after his somewhat lengthy layoff.

But yeah, Jumbo made the call because reasons. lol

 

[Nighthock]

 

[Bowie22]

Just watched highlights. Oh man, softies galore.

 

[Alwalys]

Just watched highlights. Oh man, softies galore.

it's kind of crazy how soft all 3 goals against were.

 

[stator]

The top problem of the Sharks, as I watch them, is they are getting out coached. DeBoer has to step it up, or DW needs to get more involved with his direct report.

 

[stator]

So Bob McKenzie tweeted saying Marleau approached the club to explore trade options with NY, LA, or Anaheim.

If true, sounds like a solid team in the dressing room.

Why couldn't he agree to a BOS trade for Jones, rather than Sharks 1st? Either LA teams is not very likely at all, so the NYR (assuming that's the one) will likely offer less in response. Sharks need to get a 1st back, so the Jones trade becomes possible a slide in 1st round picks.

 

[tahoesharksfan]

That was of the most craptastic games I've sat through in a long time. Hopefully we can get something going in Detroit because you know we can never get past Buffalo...

 

[Hangemhigh]

Absolutely I would tell him no. A coach's job is to coach and make the lines as he thinks is going to work. The player's job is to play. Inmates don't need to run the asylum. Besides, DW already addressed something like this when he moved Burns back to D. That issue wasn't everything that went into that particular decision but I'm pretty sure it was part of it since Thornton wanted to play with Burns from day one of that decision to play him at forward.

This is unrealistic. Burns sees himself as a Dman. So Sharks moved him back to D. If Burns wanted to be a F, Sharks would have kept him there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is unrealistic. Burns sees himself as a Dman. So Sharks moved him back to D. If Burns wanted to be a F, Sharks would have kept him there.

Burns didn't care. That was DW's decision because that was what he acquired him to be.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Why couldn't he agree to a BOS trade for Jones, rather than Sharks 1st? Either LA teams is not very likely at all, so the NYR (assuming that's the one) will likely offer less in response. Sharks need to get a 1st back, so the Jones trade becomes possible a slide in 1st round picks.

Why couldn't who agree to BOS for a trade? DW or Patty? Do we know that BOS was interested in Patty at all? Or if Patty would even waive for them? Not sure what you exactly mean.

Also, the only team (in those 3) than can fit Marleau without moving salary back is ANA. LA and NY do not have any cap space unless we take a big contract off them. Generally, ANA does not spend to the cap either so that is not a very realistic option unless we take some salary back or retain percentage of Patty's salary.

 

[Coily]

The top problem of the Sharks, as I watch them, is they are getting out coached. DeBoer has to step it up, or DW needs to get more involved with his direct report.

Coaching isn't the problem when you're goalies let in shots from the blueline....

 

[Levie]

Coaching isn't the problem when you're goalies let in shots from the blueline....

Coaching is a problem when your team continues to be unprepared to start games. After historically being a "1st period team." How else would you explain that? Don't get me started on special teams.

 

[magic school bus]

Coaching isn't the problem when you're goalies let in shots from the blueline....

Vlasic out on the pp, 6-on-5. That's coaching.

 

[Coily]

Vlasic out on the pp, 6-on-5. That's coaching.

Braun Martin Dillon and Tennyson are all just as bad. What do you want them to do have Stalock play the point on the PP?

and if the goalies don't let in the 2 goals from the blueline the 6 on 5 doesn't even happen so why bring that up.

 

[Alwalys]

yeah the soft goals were the biggest problem last night.

you give those up you're in for a tough game.

in other news, patty has the flu. i wonder if he's the only one?