Value of: 14th OA + Ryan Callahan

[The Macho King]

Not that he'd waive to go to Colorado but what about Grigorenko for Callahan + 14th overall. Grigs and Kucherov are close friends and have played together in the past as well.

Grigorenko sucks and is not an NHL caliber player. You're basically saying "14th + Callahan for nothing." And frankly, that's a fair proposal. No reason to throw Grigs in there unless you need to make it work for contract purposes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Grigorenko sucks and is not an NHL caliber player. You're basically saying "14th + Callahan for nothing." And frankly, that's a fair proposal. No reason to throw Grigs in there unless you need to make it work for contract purposes.

Grigorenko is an NHL caliber player. Yes 14th + Callahan for nothing is fair but I figured lots of teams can do that. I used Grigorenko since he is somewhat of an asset.

 

[The Macho King]

Grigorenko is an NHL caliber player. Yes 14th + Callahan for nothing is fair but I figured lots of teams can do that. I used Grigorenko since he is somewhat of an asset.

Don't poop on a piece of bread and tell me it's nutella. The guy is a career .3ppg player without the defensive game to be put in a checking role. He's a possession black hole to boot. He's out of the NHL this offseason most likely.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Don't poop on a piece of bread and tell me it's nutella. The guy is a career .3ppg player without the defensive game to be put in a checking role. He's a possession black hole to boot. He's out of the NHL this offseason most likely.

Again, don't speak about someone you have no idea of. When Grigorenko is on the ice he is the generally the guy with possession of the puck. I would love for you to steer me in the direction of a stat that says he's a poor possession player. Shot generation/suppression is definitely weak, but not possession.

He isn't bad defensively. Very good positionally and pretty good stick work. Unfortunately he doesn't engage his body into any battles and that's where he's weak. But not bad defensively. In fact when he plays his natural position of centre he's pretty good defensively especially down low. His downfall is the use of him on the wing when he fails on the boards because of his body engagement. I'll never understand why a coach would play him as a wingner when you look at how much better he is at centre.

His production hasn't been great no doubt, but his usage clearly plays a big part in that. He trails only Mackinnon, Duchene and Landeskog on the Avalanche in points/60 since he became a member of the team. Each of his 9 most frequent linemates over the last 2 seasons have their GF60 higher while on the ice with Grigorenko than when they're away from him. He makes people around him better. Especially Mackinnon and Duchene who's production skyrockets with Grigs compared to away from him.

He needs to learn to engage his body and "want" the puck more or coaches aren't going to want to put that guy out there and his ice time over his career shows. But to say he isn't an NHL caliber player is almost as dumb as your other recent comments of saying Nathan Mackinnon has a "muffin" for a shot and that Tyson Barrie "sucks" and "is trash". If you aren't willing to watch a team play hockey that's fine but don't make up false opinions on them.

 

[The Macho King]

Again, don't speak about someone you have no idea of. When Grigorenko is on the ice he is the generally the guy with possession of the puck. I would love for you to steer me in the direction of a stat that says he's a poor possession player. Shot generation/suppression is definitely weak, but not possession.

He isn't bad defensively. Very good positionally and pretty good stick work. Unfortunately he doesn't engage his body into any battles and that's where he's weak. But not bad defensively. In fact when he plays his natural position of centre he's pretty good defensively especially down low. His downfall is the use of him on the wing when he fails on the boards because of his body engagement. I'll never understand why a coach would play him as a wingner when you look at how much better he is at centre.

His production hasn't been great no doubt, but his usage clearly plays a big part in that. He trails only Mackinnon, Duchene and Landeskog on the Avalanche in points/60 since he became a member of the team. Each of his 9 most frequent linemates over the last 2 seasons have their GF60 higher while on the ice with Grigorenko than when they're away from him. He makes people around him better. Especially Mackinnon and Duchene who's production skyrockets with Grigs compared to away from him.

He needs to learn to engage his body and "want" the puck more or coaches aren't going to want to put that guy out there and his ice time over his career shows. But to say he isn't an NHL caliber player is almost as dumb as your other recent comments of saying Nathan Mackinnon has a "muffin" for a shot and that Tyson Barrie "sucks" and "is trash". If you aren't willing to watch a team play hockey that's fine but don't make up false opinions on them.

Okay. Colorado is the worst non-expansion team in the modern era but somehow all of their players are fantastic.

Grigorenko is a null value asset.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Okay. Colorado is the worst non-expansion team in the modern era but somehow all of their players are fantastic.

Grigorenko is a null value asset.

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

[Seatoo]

Tanev + CBJ 2nd for Drouin and Callahan

 

[57special]

My knee jerk response was Pominville( 2 years left at 5.6), but he actually had a decent year with 47 points. 14oa isn't worth saddling yourself with Callahan and his contract. Having him around would probably mean that a team would not be able to re-sign a talented young player, maybe two. That's negative value right there.

 

[The Macho King]

My knee jerk response was Pominville( 2 years left at 5.6), but he actually had a decent year with 47 points. 14oa isn't worth saddling yourself with Callahan and his contract. Having him around would probably mean that a team would not be able to re-sign a talented young player, maybe two. That's negative value right there.

I wouldn't expect it from a team like Minny. I agree that Cally is negative value - the question is how negative.

 

[Seatoo]

i wouldn't expect it from a team like minny. I agree that cally is negative value - the question is how negative.

18 2 2 4 23 -4

 

[paragon]

Few possible returns:

Girardi
Clarkson
Dustin Brown

 

[Canuck Luck]

That's way too much to give up for a cap dump. When has a team given up a 1st + 2nd to move a contract or retained 2mil on a deal that extends beyond the year? Bolland + Crouse = Callahan + 14th and the Panthers got back 2 high picks. So not giving up a 1st + to rid Callahan.

I'd rather keep Callahan for the year anyway. We can dump salary somewhere else, Garrison trade or Killorn to expansion, so no rush to rid Callahan. He's going to be overpaid but even if be just scores 20 but is back to the grinder, PK specialist it's not all bad. If he can't play anymore then he goes on LTIR and we get the cap relief that way.

When has a contract with such a high cap hit with a NMC/NTC been moved where the player was able to play at the time of the trade? Only one is Clarkson. The only reason Toronto got out of that is because they took back Horton and for Columbus they needed someone playing for that 5M and not having to pay someone that money to sit at home.

Bolland had already suffered an injury considered to possibly be career ending and had missed significant time before he was dealt. Thats why he cost only Crouse and they got back a 3rd and a conditional 2nd. Even with insurance paying Bolland, Florida had to package a top prospect with that contract for a late 3rd and a conditional late 2nd based on Lawson Crouse's gp this past season. (Arizona did not give up their own picks). There was no risk at all for Arizona as it helped them get to the cap floor and if theyever need to they could place Bolland on LTIR and then all they are doing is paying whatever the insurance cost on Bolland is I believe with 0 affect on their cap.

Callahan hasn't suffered a career ending injury. He will be playing come fall. If TB rolls the dice on him this season and he bombs, his value becomes significantly worse. If he excels, his value increases as 1 year will have been removed and teams can expect him to be a 3rd liner.

 

[HoseEmDown]

When has a contract with such a high cap hit with a NMC/NTC been moved where the player was able to play at the time of the trade? Only one is Clarkson. The only reason Toronto got out of that is because they took back Horton and for Columbus they needed someone playing for that 5M and not having to pay someone that money to sit at home.

Bolland had already suffered an injury considered to possibly be career ending and had missed significant time before he was dealt. Thats why he cost only Crouse and they got back a 3rd and a conditional 2nd. Even with insurance paying Bolland, Florida had to package a top prospect with that contract for a late 3rd and a conditional late 2nd based on Lawson Crouse's gp this past season. (Arizona did not give up their own picks). There was no risk at all for Arizona as it helped them get to the cap floor and if theyever need to they could place Bolland on LTIR and then all they are doing is paying whatever the insurance cost on Bolland is I believe with 0 affect on their cap.

Callahan hasn't suffered a career ending injury. He will be playing come fall. If TB rolls the dice on him this season and he bombs, his value becomes significantly worse. If he excels, his value increases as 1 year will have been removed and teams can expect him to be a 3rd liner.

Arizona did give up it's own picks in the trade. It was the better of their 3rd or Detroit's this year, so it is their 3rd, the conditional 2nd is their pick as well. So good pieces back, not pieces that would acquire Crouse or the 14th but could get a late 1st if Arizona's 2nd is early like this year.

A team acquiring Callahan is doing it for a hockey player not a someone on LTIR. An overpaid player but someone better than an AHL plug. Arizona for example would probably not mind Callahan on the team because he can help the team on the ice and in the locker room, his actual salary is what would prevent a trade. New Jersey has cap space the next few years for Callahan too and he could help their bottom 6. If he can't go then they get to put him on LTIR but that shouldn't be the main reason to acquire him. Now they aren't going to pay anything to trade for him and would expect something to take him but not a 1st + 2nd like you want to take him. A 2nd + a late pick or conditional pick if he plays a certain amount of games.

 

[McSuper]

Obviously depending on Cally waiving his NMC, but packaging him with the 14th overall with no retention, what does it fetch?

He has 4 years left at 5.8m. Does a team like Vegas, or a team with space like Phoenix or Carolina, take on Cally's contract for another draft pick, and what do they send the other way?

Eberle ?

 

[More 2004]

Eberle ?

Has he fallen off that hard?

 

[Braeden]

Drouin
Callahan
14th

for

Tanev
5th

 

[sting101]

Drouin
Callahan
14th

for

Tanev
5th

WTF??

5th = Drouin

Tanev for 14th and Callahan????? wow.....ffs

 

[ginner classic]

That is one ugly contract and he's coming off major surgery and just 10 goals/28 points in 73 games on a stacked Lightning team in his last full season. Oooof.

Even non-competing teams such as NJ, Arizona or Carolina that could easily absorb the cap hit for the next year or two have to be worried about year 3 when they may be competitive and have that $5.8MM anchor with a 35-36 year old Callahan. Plus, he's still owed another $15.9MM in salary over the next 3 years.

That's a hefty price to pay for a draft pick, unless Callahan really turns his game around which is far from a sure thing.

I don't think the first rounder is enough to move that contract.

He's probably worth about 2 to 2.5 million a year if healthy. So....is 9 million worth the 14th pick? Nine...million...dollars? For a pick with a 50 percent chance of panning out? That'd be a tough sell for any owner.

 

[ginner classic]

For Callahan and the 14OA pick you can probably get a pick in the 25-30 range

Definitely not moving up

No chance. The only way that would happen is if he was being covered by insurance for sure for the duration. A healthy Callhan has massively negative value as he's overpaid by about nine million dollars given his current (healthy) and projected capability. Nine million bucks is not worth nine late spots in the 1st round. No chance. Nobody is that dumb.

 

[ginner classic]

Arizona did give up it's own picks in the trade. It was the better of their 3rd or Detroit's this year, so it is their 3rd, the conditional 2nd is their pick as well. So good pieces back, not pieces that would acquire Crouse or the 14th but could get a late 1st if Arizona's 2nd is early like this year.

A team acquiring Callahan is doing it for a hockey player not a someone on LTIR. An overpaid player but someone better than an AHL plug. Arizona for example would probably not mind Callahan on the team because he can help the team on the ice and in the locker room, his actual salary is what would prevent a trade. New Jersey has cap space the next few years for Callahan too and he could help their bottom 6. If he can't go then they get to put him on LTIR but that shouldn't be the main reason to acquire him. Now they aren't going to pay anything to trade for him and would expect something to take him but not a 1st + 2nd like you want to take him. A 2nd + a late pick or conditional pick if he plays a certain amount of games.

He has more value on LTIR (career ending) than he does healthy because that contract is vile.

 

[phlocky]

I mean, the idea is we're not getting much back. Just if there are takers, and if there are what is it worth.

I know Datsyuk's contract wasn't as long, but I think as a foundation that deal kind of gives a blueprint. If he and the 16th returned the 20th and a late second to literally just be dead cap space for a year, Callahan + the pick probably returns some asset of value.

The difference is that Datsyuk wasn't going to plan and a team wouldn't actually be out any money, just cap space.

Having said that, I can see Vegas taking that deal. Callihan is a player who can help them get off and running at the start, will be gone in 3 years when they should have some players they draft this year are fighting for NHL spots, and they get another first this year to add another high end prospect. I'd do it if I were them. I mean what the heck, it's not like cap space is an issue for them right now and they aren't looking to compete for the cup soon.

 

[goblix]

VAN:
Gaunce
for
Tampa:
14th + Callahan


Gaunce 23, expansion eligible. likely trending to be a 3/4 liner with excellent PK capabilities. RFA

I mean Callahan would have to waive NMC so it's doubtful he'd goto any non-contending team.

 

[Blue Goose]

Having said that, I can see Vegas taking that deal. Callihan is a player who can help them get off and running at the start, will be gone in 3 years when they should have some players they draft this year are fighting for NHL spots, and they get another first this year to add another high end prospect. I'd do it if I were them. I mean what the heck, it's not like cap space is an issue for them right now and they aren't looking to compete for the cup soon.

I just don't see TB parting with the 14OA, or Callahan waiving his NMC to come to Vegas. And we're not in a position to be trading draft picks, so any move would have to be centered around the expansion draft itself.

If he did waive his NMC for the expansion draft, I wouldn't mind McPhee picking him if Yzerman threw in a prospect like Cirelli as a sweetener.

 

[tucker3434]

Grigorenko sucks and is not an NHL caliber player. You're basically saying "14th + Callahan for nothing." And frankly, that's a fair proposal. No reason to throw Grigs in there unless you need to make it work for contract purposes.

A .3 ppg pace isn't out-of-the-league bad, especially for a guy playing on 14 min a night on last years Avs. He could be a decent addition to somebody's bottom six scoring line.

But you're right that he has virtually no value. Gotta include something as a placeholder though. Can't trade for nothing.

 

[TheTakedown]

Yeah, they have the cap space going into next season...the year after - probably...the year after that, it's not as clear depending on how quickly these teams progress.

Also, there's the whole issue of $15.9MM in real dollars that ownership has to sign off on. Neither organization is exactly printing money.

Devils would then have to send back a cap dump. They don't have many long term cap dumps so from a financial standpoint it really doesn't make sense for them...

From a team building perspective it does make sense because in the even NJ can get a 1st and a 2nd out of this, while clearing out a ******** veteran player, that can help jump start their rebuild. Assuming that 14thOA can get NJ a guy on a 3 year ELC, perhaps that guy slides for a year, Callahan's contract would be up by the time that guy needs a raise