Prospect Info: 13-14 Prospects Thread Version XVII: Connor Brown Fan Club

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bigdirty

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Mar 11, 2010
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Who knows. We have some posters here who've watched him and say he's played better than his boxscore, but those pucks have to start going in eventually.

With the exception of Anthony DeLuca, nobody is really putting up big point totals in Rimouski so far this year. Even Peter Trainor, a 100 point scorer last season, is hovering just above PPG.

I don't think it's really a big problem at this point, and it's not indicative of Gauthier's skill level.
When you're that good at defensive play, you're going to be used in a defensive role. Or at least you're not going to be sent out on the ice and told to go wild offensively.

When we drafted him, I think everyone understood that he was a long term prospect. Seven games isn't quite what I had in mind for 'long term.'
 

StuckOutHere

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Feb 10, 2010
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History does show that Elite players almost never come out of late rounds. Just the occasional really good ones.

Being that, to call the rest of the crop B-Level, i think is premature. Usually if a player has little to no chance to become that 50+ point player, there are signs. That doesn't mean that they can't be good NHLers (See McClement), but with players like that or say Broll, it's just not likely to expect 50-70 points perennially. That's okay! Especially given that 9/10 or more of these late picks never even reach the AHL let alone the NHL, Toronto has done a fabulous job...

But there's a number of prospects that could still be so much more.
Carter Verhaeghe, Connor Brown, and Andreas Johnson to start are putting up numbers. It's EARLY, ok, but frankly, 1.0PPG in the CHL is one thing. Plenty of players do that and it doesn't translate. ... but this is much much more than that. These numbers are significant. Same if not even more so for Johnson. He's putting up PPG numbers in a league that you could argue offers stiffer competition than the AHL, AT 18 years of age. DAMN. This stuff is not found on every other team in the league. These numbers are significant SO FAR, and it MUST to be taken seriously. The more so the longer it goes.

Furthermore, it doesn't end there. Finn and especially Percy look like the both of them have a real good chance to be top-4 D-men. That's not B-level. Loov, Nilsson and Granberg all have legitimate chances to become NHL players.

What about Tony Cameranesi, Dominic Toninato, and Joshua Leivo? None of them can be written off as B-Level prospects yet either.

NOW UNDERSTAND THIS
What is a bust? Maybe oh (Sondre Olden), a draft pick that never pans out (Mikhail Stefanovich)? Like well over 90% of picks after the first couple of rounds (Ben Winnett)? Check out the history (Luca Cereda), the vast majority of picks never even see a single NHL game, or if they do, it might be 10 or 15 total.
Lots of them never graduate beyond junior.

In the last 3 drafts, Toronto has made 20 picks, AND NOT EVEN ONE of them has busted yet. Now, i grant you it's early for some of those picks, but with all due respect, how many of them are actually BUSTING?

From the 2011 draft you can argue that every single last pick of the nine selected is ADVANCING. Same for 2012. All six are legitimately advancing. Busts don't advance. Some picks don't advance far enough, but most don't advance at all. It's stupid how good a return the leafs have got on picks lately. STUPID. And don't tell me they're all B-Level players because they're not. Most will be, that's natural, but they've not all stamped themselves into that yet.

OK, granted the leafs used to suck at drafting, but they have been working on that at an administrative level for some years now. The dividends are starting to show.

Future #1C?:sarcasm:
 

Joey Hoser

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NOW UNDERSTAND THIS
What is a bust? Maybe oh (Sondre Olden), a draft pick that never pans out (Mikhail Stefanovich)? Like well over 90% of picks after the first couple of rounds (Ben Winnett)? Check out the history (Luca Cereda), the vast majority of picks never even see a single NHL game, or if they do, it might be 10 or 15 total.
Lots of them never graduate beyond junior.

This is a really good point. Usually, when a player is drafted, no matter where, there's a path layed out for them to make the NHL, whether it be one more year of junior(like Rielly), 2 years overseas and then one or two in the AHL(like Granberg), or four years of college plus one in the AHL(Frattin).

The longer a guy stays on that path, the more valuable a prospect they become. It's the guys who fall off the path(Barron Smith, Sondre Olden) or don't succeed enough to continue down it(Dale Michell) that become non-factors.

We don't have a lot of sexy, high-end prospect right now, but the whole lot of them seem to be moving down the path at the right pace.
 

Badger Mayhew*

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Verhaeghe is definitely the Leafs prospect to watch this year.
 

Lebanese Leaf

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Andreas Johnson with 10 points in 11 games so far as an 18 year old on Frolunda. WOW... That is legit. By comparison, here are some highly touted guys' stats in their 18 year old years in the Swedish League:

Henrik Zetterberg: 34 pts in 42 games
Mika Zibanejad: 13 pts in 26 games
Filip Forsberg: 33 pts in 38 games
Jakob Silfverberg: 16 pts in 48 games
Marcus Johansson: 20 pts in 42 games
 

The Winter Soldier

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With the exception of Anthony DeLuca, nobody is really putting up big point totals in Rimouski so far this year. Even Peter Trainor, a 100 point scorer last season, is hovering just above PPG.

I don't think it's really a big problem at this point, and it's not indicative of Gauthier's skill level.
When you're that good at defensive play, you're going to be used in a defensive role. Or at least you're not going to be sent out on the ice and told to go wild offensively.

When we drafted him, I think everyone understood that he was a long term prospect. Seven games isn't quite what I had in mind for 'long term.'

Unless he's injured, 7 games in the Q, is a significant slump for a guy that was picked 21st overall.

I think we all concede he is a safe bet to be a #3C in the NHL, most were hoping he would take a big jump offensively in his 2nd year in the Q.

Thus far his points totals have to be termed a disappointment.
 

ChrisCall

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Unless he's injured, 7 games in the Q, is a significant slump for a guy that was picked 21st overall.

I think we all concede he is a safe bet to be a #3C in the NHL, most were hoping he would take a big jump offensively in his 2nd year in the Q.

I know it's a bit of a dead issue now, but i heard and read a lot around the draft that the leafs wanted badly to draft Mantha, but Detroit picked him up at #20 and spoiled that idea. Well, Detroit is a smart drafting club and those Mantha numbers are looking a bit scary right now. 11 goals and 18 points in 7 games played.
 

The Winter Soldier

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I know it's a bit of a dead issue now, but i heard and read a lot around the draft that the leafs wanted badly to draft Mantha, but Detroit picked him up at #20 and spoiled that idea. Well, Detroit is a smart drafting club and those Mantha numbers are looking a bit scary right now. 11 goals and 18 points in 7 games played.

Oh if we are going to open up that can of worms, I was in Switzerland at the time and when I got to the hotel, I was surprised we passed on Shinkaruk or we didn't move down. Hunter already has 3 goals and 3 assists in 3 WHL games and has an elite skillset. I hate the thought of passing on him when he dropped.

I am not unhappy with Gauthier, think he will be a useful piece, but would have preferred we shoot for the moon more especially when a player like Hunter Shinkaruk is there for the picking. 3rd line checkers are usually drafted in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Lots of guys on the board we could have drafted if we dropped down and added a pick. Dickinson, Hartman, Santini, Bailey that may be equal or even have higher upside than Gauthier.

Not sure what happened this draft. Verhaege and Herzog I do like where we took them. Nice value picks there. They may save this draft for us.
 
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theIceWookie

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Oh if we are going to open up that can of worms, I was in Switzerland at the time and when I got to the hotel, I was surprised we passed on Shinkaruk or we didn't move down. Hunter already has 3 goals and 3 assists in 3 WHL games and has an elite skillset. I hate the thought of passing on him when he dropped.

I am not unhappy with Gauthier, think he will be a useful piece, but would have preferred we shoot for the moon more especially when a player like Hunter Shinkaruk is there for the picking. 3rd line checkers are usually drafted in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Lots of guys on the board we could have drafted if we dropped down and added a pick. Dickinson, Santini, Bailey ect..

What if's...

It's been 7 games. Let's hold off before proclaiming his future in a small box.
 

Johny Drama

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Oh if we are going to open up that can of worms, I was in Switzerland at the time and when I got to the hotel, I was surprised we passed on Shinkaruk or we didn't move down. Hunter already has 3 goals and 3 assists in 3 WHL games and has an elite skillset. I hate the thought of passing on him when he dropped.

I am not unhappy with Gauthier, think he will be a useful piece, but would have preferred we shoot for the moon more especially when a player like Hunter Shinkaruk is there for the picking. 3rd line checkers are usually drafted in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Lots of guys on the board we could have drafted if we dropped down and added a pick. Dickinson, Hartman, Santini, Bailey that may be equal or even have higher upside than Gauthier.

Not sure what happened this draft. Verhaege and Herzog I do like where we took them. Nice value picks there. They may save this draft for us.

I agree with you. Its really early, but the Gauthier pick sort of reminds me of picking Biggs around the same slot in the draft. Both big guys who are solid, but haven't shown they can put up good numbers in junior. Would rather we go for that player who HAS shown he can put up great numbers at the junior level, but needs to work on his defensive game, as that is much easier to teach. Players with the skillset of Gauthier and Biggs, can be found later on in the draft. Our very own David Broll has already shown more as a pro than Biggs, and he was drafted in the 5th round.
 

The Winter Soldier

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What if's...

It's been 7 games. Let's hold off before proclaiming his future in a small box.

I know, I agree it's only 7 games, and his next 7 he may score 7 goals. No one is saying this kid is a bust. I love how people jump up and get defensive when a Leafs fan questions what is happening with our kids.

Leafs 1st rd picks are under a microscope, just the way it is. 7 games goaless in the NHL is a story, 7 games in the Q, that's hard to do even if you try.

We all know scouts questioned his scoring ability when he was picked. Hoped it wasn't true, still hope it isn't true, but man start showing some offence.
 

The Winter Soldier

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I agree with you. Its really early, but the Gauthier pick sort of reminds me of picking Biggs around the same slot in the draft. Both big guys who are solid, but haven't shown they can put up good numbers in junior. Would rather we go for that player who HAS shown he can put up great numbers at the junior level, but needs to work on his defensive game, as that is much easier to teach. Players with the skillset of Gauthier and Biggs, can be found later on in the draft. Our very own David Broll has already shown more as a pro than Biggs, and he was drafted in the 5th round.

Biggs was atleast picked with an upside and comparison to Milan Lucic. Well worth the gamble if there was even the slightest chance it will be true. These players are rare and hard to draft.

Think Martin Hanzal does not excite me as much, you cannot tell me many do not agree with me.

Maybe in the 2nd rd yes, but #21, let's be a little more ambitious. That's my opinion, and this is why I loved the Rielly pick. Difference in philosophies.
 

StuckOutHere

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I agree with you. Its really early, but the Gauthier pick sort of reminds me of picking Biggs around the same slot in the draft. Both big guys who are solid, but haven't shown they can put up good numbers in junior. Would rather we go for that player who HAS shown he can put up great numbers at the junior level, but needs to work on his defensive game, as that is much easier to teach. Players with the skillset of Gauthier and Biggs, can be found later on in the draft. Our very own David Broll has already shown more as a pro than Biggs, and he was drafted in the 5th round.

To be fair, he was a ppg, two-way center in his rookie year. You can get Mason Raymond, Clarke MacArthur, and countless other wingers off the scrap pile for $1M-$2M and get 20g-25gs out of them. That doesn't happen with Centers. You could argue that a great 3C has higher value than a good second line W. We made a risky choice, like any draft pick, but I still think we made the right one.
 

theIceWookie

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For discussion purposes since I wasn't here, would you have picked Shinkaruk had you had the choice when our turn came?

I wasn't happy we passed on Shinkaruk but that hardly matters now. He wasn't pick by 20 other teams than ourselves, teams that had some significant issues. His 3 games in the WHL and Gauthier's 7 games hardly make a conclusive argument for or against either.

Biggs was atleast picked with an upside and comparison to Milan Lucic. Well worth the gamble if there was even the slightest chance it will be true. These players are rare and hard to draft.

Think Martin Hanzal does not excite me as much, you cannot tell me many do not agree with me.

Maybe in the 2nd rd yes, but #21, let's be a little more ambitious. That's my opinion, and this is why I loved the Rielly pick. Difference in philosophies.

I agree I would have considered more potential elite talent with that pick but if the rumored reason for teams passing on Shinkaruk was his character, I have little problem with it.

Gauthier type players aren't easy to come by (the projected upside anyways). Teams always put a premium on size. You just don't find Martin Hanzal type players in the 2nd round very often.

And you have to be one of HFboards most bipolar posters. You constantly flip flop between wanting guys who excite you crying about how a guy just doesn't excite you, but then complain about flashy players who don't play the game solidly enough. It's one of the most random factors I've seen a poster use for wanting/not wanting a player.
 

The Winter Soldier

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And you have to be one of HFboards most bipolar posters. You constantly flip flop between wanting guys who excite you crying about how a guy just doesn't excite you, but then complain about flashy players who don't play the game solidly enough. It's one of the most random factors I've seen a poster use for wanting/not wanting a player.

This statement is inaccurate because there are no 2 identical prospects. You cannot put prospects in a box and label them black or white. You need to realize this, evaluating prospects on a year by year, case by case basis is what the best scouts in the NHL do.

Example you ask? 2012 draft was high in quaiity defencemen. As ascout you would recognize this.

2013 draft, our own Dave Morrison said he placed a premium of QJMHL players because he thought the league was stronger and he picked a Q guy his first in the 1st rd as Head scout here.

You can't be so rigid in your thought process as to say I like substance guys one year so I can't pick a flashy guy next year. That's a totally illogical approach that screams OCD rigidness.
 

ErnieLeafs

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From all reports, Gauthier has done his job to a "T", so far. He's been great defensively, and he's been working hard to improve in the faceoff dot. The points will come, and at some point, I would expect there to be an emphasis put on his production by his coaches, as well as our's.

I wanted Gauthier/Mantha/Erne/Rychel, so I'm happy to see them all doing well thus far this season. Mantha is a real beast, though. Those Red Wings....
 

The Podium

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Andreas Johnson with 10 points in 11 games so far as an 18 year old on Frolunda. WOW... That is legit. By comparison, here are some highly touted guys' stats in their 18 year old years in the Swedish League:

Henrik Zetterberg: 34 pts in 42 games
Mika Zibanejad: 13 pts in 26 games
Filip Forsberg: 33 pts in 38 games
Jakob Silfverberg: 16 pts in 48 games
Marcus Johansson: 20 pts in 42 games

He has been beyond incredible, currently tied for the lead in points on his team tied for 10th in the league and is blowing fellow rookies/young players out of the water

Alex Wenneberg: 5 pts in 11 games
Sebastian Colleberg: 2 pts in 6 games
Pontus Aberg: 7 pts in 11 games
Jacob de la Rose: 3 pts in 10 games
Robert Hagg: 3 pts in 11 games

On a side note Detroit's 3rd round pick of 2013 Mattias Janmark (overeager) is also doing really well with 12 pts in 11 games and Buffalos 5th round pick of 2013 with 10 pts in 11 games
 

zeke

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Biggs was atleast picked with an upside and comparison to Milan Lucic. Well worth the gamble if there was even the slightest chance it will be true. These players are rare and hard to draft.

Think Martin Hanzal does not excite me as much, you cannot tell me many do not agree with me.

Maybe in the 2nd rd yes, but #21, let's be a little more ambitious. That's my opinion, and this is why I loved the Rielly pick. Difference in philosophies.

Biggs was a horrendous pick.

Gauthier has far, far more upside.

Gauthier was already a better offensive player at 17 than Biggs was at 19. It's not even close.
 

ErnieLeafs

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Biggs was a horrendous pick.

Gauthier has far, far more upside.

Gauthier was already a better offensive player at 17 than Biggs was at 19. It's not even close.

For those clamouring for more upside in the players we draft, the Biggs/Percy draft should stick out like a sore thumb. There were a good number of players with higher potential and higher numbers at the junior level when they were picked.
 

ULF_55

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Andreas Johnson with 10 points in 11 games so far as an 18 year old on Frolunda. WOW... That is legit. By comparison, here are some highly touted guys' stats in their 18 year old years in the Swedish League:

Henrik Zetterberg: 34 pts in 42 games
Mika Zibanejad: 13 pts in 26 games
Filip Forsberg: 33 pts in 38 games
Jakob Silfverberg: 16 pts in 48 games
Marcus Johansson: 20 pts in 42 games

Speaking of ... he's outscoring Bobby Ryan.
 

TheLeastOfTheBunch

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He has been beyond incredible, currently tied for the lead in points on his team tied for 10th in the league and is blowing fellow rookies/young players out of the water

Alex Wenneberg: 5 pts in 11 games
Sebastian Colleberg: 2 pts in 6 games
Pontus Aberg: 7 pts in 11 games
Jacob de la Rose: 3 pts in 10 games
Robert Hagg: 3 pts in 11 games

On a side note Detroit's 3rd round pick of 2013 Mattias Janmark (overeager) is also doing really well with 12 pts in 11 games and Buffalos 5th round pick of 2013 with 10 pts in 11 games

Certainly looks impressive in games. Fun to watch.
 
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