Why are you fanboys all over me for suggesting that the 4th line is a pretty terrible line? Leave special teams out of it and focus on what they do 5-on-5. I'm not overly impressed with Mackenzie, but he doesn't ever stop moving which can be effective at creating pressure. I can see why you would defend a guy like Dmac, but Fleischmann and Upshall, please. And I wasn't referring to the total PIMs. I said they take stupid penalties, like the interference call on Gudbranson last night with the game tied late in the second. The last penalty Flash took against Detroit was an offensive zone call while we were making an attempt at trying to tie the game. Not too smart. And Upshall, well if doesn't hustle and hit and then he's utterly useless in the NHL. His negatives far outweigh his positives. Dmac I'm ok with, but I wouldn't mind seeing Fleischmann and Upshall gone at the deadline.