GDT: 11/27/13 "Giving T.Hanks" - Rangers VS Panthers

[AwesomePanthers]

I would say it will take at least Bjugstad + Kulikov. Kane has not asked for a trade or demonstrated unhappiness.

And before people jump down my throat, I would not do that trade. But that's what it would take.

No thanks, Bjugstad is gonna be a beast.

And we are not trading our 1st, could be top5.

 

[ProjectPanthers]

There's no way Evander Kane's value is Bjugstad + Kulikov.

Those are two promising NHLers traded for one. It would most likely be something like Kulikov, Matthias and something to land Kane.

People value players a whole lot nowadays. Luke Schenn fetched Van Riemsdyk, Goligoski netted Neal, etc etc.

Even Joe Thornton was traded for Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and a 4th liner. Come on guys.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

No thanks, Bjugstad is gonna be a beast.

And we are not trading our 1st, could be top5.

So let´s trade all our trash for a guy like Kane? You need to give up quality in order to get quality back.

If they keep playing .500 hockey under Horachek they are not finishing bottom 5. Also a lot of young talent already in the system, time to build other pieces around them and not wait another five years for the future draft picks to develop. Also this years draft isn´t even that deep.

Kulikov + 1st + B level prospect probably would do it for Kane if the Jets are interested in Kuli.

 

[Dread Clawz]

There's no way Evander Kane's value is Bjugstad + Kulikov.

Those are two promising NHLers traded for one. It would most likely be something like Kulikov, Matthias and something to land Kane.

People value players a whole lot nowadays. Luke Schenn fetched Van Riemsdyk, Goligoski netted Neal, etc etc.

Even Joe Thornton was traded for Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and a 4th liner. Come on guys.

Kane is not a promising NHLer. He's an established star. If you were the Jets, why would you trade Kane for Kulikov? You wouldn't. If Tallon could get Kane for Kulikov and Matthias, it would have already happened.

Luke Schenn was looked at as a promising young d-man. Bad trade for the Flyers. Neal was not Neal when the Pens acquired him. Goligoski was looked at as a promising up and coming puck moving d-man.

The Thornton trade is universally looked at as one of the worst trades of all time. Consequently the Bruins finished with a lottery pick that season. It also led to a shake-up of Boston's management team.

 

[Dread Clawz]

A lot of speculation of it though throughout the last 1.5 years.

This one from today:
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/28/report-tension-between-jets-and-evander-kane/

Kane would be pretty incredible addition talent wise not sure if he would be a headcase.

Obviously there is tension, but still, Kane has not lowered his value by requesting a trade or demonstrating unhappiness with the team. If you want a franchise piece like Kane from the Jets, you need to give franchise pieces back.

 

[AwesomePanthers]

So let´s trade all our trash for a guy like Kane? You need to give up quality in order to get quality back.

If they keep playing .500 hockey under Horachek they are not finishing bottom 5. Also a lot of young talent already in the system, time to build other pieces around them and not wait another five years for the future draft picks to develop. Also this years draft isn´t even that deep.

Kulikov + 1st + B level prospect probably would do it for Kane if the Jets are interested in Kuli.

The Panthers would get bent over by this. Kane is good, but not a star player. I don't even think Ryan would have cost that much (before he was traded). Young stud defenseman + top 5 pick + B level prospects for Kane is INSANE. Rather stay the hell away if thats what it would take.

 

[Jeff Shafer]

Obviously there is tension, but still, Kane has not lowered his value by requesting a trade or demonstrating unhappiness with the team. If you want a franchise piece like Kane from the Jets, you need to give franchise pieces back.

I wasn't saying a kulikov for Kane trade straight up would work but we obviously have talent to move for a proven young scorer like Kane. I could see a Matthias, Kulikov and Flash trade for Kane and something else working.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

The Panthers would get bent over by this. Kane is good, but not a star player. I don't even think Ryan would have cost that much (before he was traded). Young stud defenseman + top 5 pick + B level prospects for Kane is INSANE. Rather stay the hell away if thats what it would take.

Well I just disagree with this, I don´t see the Panthers finishing bottom 5 especially if they add Kane. Also I wouldn´t call Kulikov a stud defenseman, more like a good young prospect.

Kane is in a pretty small group of guys who have scored 30 goals or more at the age of 20 in the last 20 years (still active players):

Gaborik
Ovechkin
Crosby
Bergeron
Toews
Stamkos
Kopitar
Malkin

Also there are couple of old horses like Ryan Smith and Jagr from the mid 90´s. If he isn´t a star player yet, it´s definitely written all over him.

 

[Dread Clawz]

The Panthers would get bent over by this. Kane is good, but not a star player. I don't even think Ryan would have cost that much (before he was traded). Young stud defenseman + top 5 pick + B level prospects for Kane is INSANE. Rather stay the hell away if thats what it would take.

Ryan cost more actually. Silfverberg is better than Kulikov, the 1st is about equal to the 1st(we definitely wouldn't finish bottom 5 if we acquired Kane), and Noesen is an A level prospect.

 

[Chino Oscar]

I think it´s the mental lapses that Kuli has, same as Markstrom had when he was playing. You can´t teach someone out of those things, they just need to figure things out and get their head straight.

Like yesterday, he got tripped up on his own which resulted in a PP for the Rags. I don´t think anyone doubts he can´t skate, in fact he is probably one of the best skaters on the team. Just a mental lapse on his part and the worst thing is that they just keep happening on a constant basis.

He has all the tools but hasn´t been able to put it all together yet. Like you said he is young still but the question really is how long will the Panthers wait for him to figure it out. With his contract coming up I doubt he will be re-signed especially if the rumours are true that he wants a change of scenery.

It really bothers me that people blame Kulikov for tripping.... Gudbranson made a stupid play trying to make that pass up the middle with 3 rangers there.... turnover and Kuli has to stop on a dime and try to get back cause he has 2 rangers coming full speed at him... yes he tripped because he had to react quickly.... Gudbranson should have NEVER. attempted that pass, yet almost eveyone blames Kulikov solely for that.

 

[PSLguy]

First opportunity I have had to post today. Long ride home from the game and then a 10 hour work day.

My wife put it best last night. The worst game we have been at this year and we haven't missed one yet. Team had no jump in them, passes were weak, and several scoring chances - one timers for example - were just plain whiffed on.

Frustrating game to watch and listen to Ranger fans both at the game and at work today.

Team needs everything. I don't think Guds played badly, Kuli looked out of sorts, Olsen looked okay, the rest of the defenders were terrible.

On offense I don't know what is wrong with Huberdeau. He is a non factor this season. Barkov I give a pass to as he is 18 and learning the NHL rink/game. Some of his passes are incredible and some make me shake my head wondering why he tried the pass. Bjugs looks by far the best on the ice. He is strong, has great reach, and is quicker than what he appears. Barch looked good too!

This is looming to be a long, tiring, frustrating season.

Sorry for the late rant!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all (in the US).

 

[FrolikFan67]

i dont see how unintentionally tripping is considered a mental lapse. there easily couldve been a groove in the ice. why arent the people on the pk being blamed? the team couldve killed that off, its not like he tripped and he scored on a break away. also, thomas shouldve had all those goals except the rick nash one, and ill give him a slight pass on the brassard one, but those other two he shouldve had and you could tell he was frustrated giving those up.

and where have there been rumors of him wanting a change of scenery? first time ive heard of this.

not every 14 overall pick becomes a top pairing D, i dont know what the expectations have been for him, the fact he became a definite top-4 (on most teams, only teams with insane D depth could say hes not a top-4) is pretty darn good, im sure every gm wishes a D taken 14 overall would end up that way.

and weaver is fine as a bottom pairing guy, but kulikov being a young developing puck mover, itd be good to have him have a partner who can contribute at least slightly on the offensive side. weaver is a good stay at home defender but that leaves all the offensive attributes for that line all on kulikov. him and gudbranson looked great together. and to me in the last couple games kulikov has looked very aggressive to me. hes fine when the puck comes to him, has no issue skating it up or making an outlet pass, aggressive on the pinch, i dont get this talk about him being timid, i dont see that. i am veryyy happy about what im seeing from, ESPECIALLY since he just turned 23 and has developed with a terrible team with lousy forwards and bad D partners for the most part. timid and indecisive is the last thing i'd say about his play right now. he looks aggressive and confident about his decisions (not second guessing or timid about possibly making a mistake whether he makes them or not, which im fine with. think. but own your decision. and whether he makes a mistake or not i see that). pair him with gudbranson or campbell, under horacheck's system, and i think people will finally see how good he is. i think a lot of this is a follow the leader mentality, a couple people rag on him, now everyones gotta do it so they feel like they fit in. hes currently our 2nd best D at the moment, lets all get on him. what a concept.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

i dont see how unintentionally tripping is considered a mental lapse. there easily couldve been a groove in the ice. why arent the people on the pk being blamed? the team couldve killed that off, its not like he tripped and he scored on a break away. also, thomas shouldve had all those goals except the rick nash one, and ill give him a slight pass on the brassard one, but those other two he shouldve had and you could tell he was frustrated giving those up.

i think a lot of this is a follow the leader mentality, a couple people rag on him, now everyones gotta do it so they feel like they fit in. hes currently our 2nd best D at the moment, lets all get on him. what a concept.

You really can't blame the penalty killers c'mon. That's a tough situation where you almost have to score short handed because we only had 40 seconds left otherwise. We didn't have our best killers out there because of that. The game was all but over after the Guddy/Kuli play. I don't think Kuli is anywhere near all to blame though. If anything we should focus on Gilbert's play or that weak one on Thomas as the most important mishap of the game.

And Kulikov is nowhere near our second best defender right now. Who do you think is the only one better? Gudbranson has been great so I assume you mean him. But have Weaver and Campbell not been better too? When was the last time we talked about a Weaver mishap. And yes Campbell hasn't played great lately but then again when has he fallen our backpassed it right to a great scorer. Campbell has looked bad only because he is playing with Gilbert. Olsen we can't tell because of such a small sample size so I don't see any way in which Kuli is better than 4th or 5th right now.

 

[CHGoalie27]

The guy played like 10 minutes per game and still ended up as a -11 in 18 games. Just because you're fast and can create a scoring chance doesn't mean the player is NHL ready. If that were the case, Jack Skille would be one of the most valuable players in the NHL.

That's unfair, and as we left off with Skille, he was pretty good with Bergenheim and Matthias type role.

Being fast and able to create scoring chances, in the NHL as we saw him, DOES mean that he's NHL ready- just means he needs to be on a line with a net crashing or sniper type finisher. Or both.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

The Panthers would get bent over by this. Kane is good, but not a star player. I don't even think Ryan would have cost that much (before he was traded). Young stud defenseman + top 5 pick + B level prospects for Kane is INSANE. Rather stay the hell away if thats what it would take.

I agree that's a little too much for Kane. I feel Kulikov, Matthias and a 2014 2nd or 3rd rounder would also get it done. The contract Kane has holds alot of value as well but I'm not 100% Winnipeg is ready to get rid of him. The Jets aren't exactly scoring at a top 10 rate and losing Kane would not help.

Flash and Kulikov have the most value in my mind of our "tradeables" with Matthias and Goc both each being worth a 2nd-3rd round pick or a B level prospect. I don't see Tallon trading our 1st rounder unless it's packaged for a 1st line winger or a top 2 d-man. That pick will almost surely be a top 10 so it holds a ton of value.

I really think this season could still be turned around if our PP can work consistently like the last 2 years. We've had so many one goal games this season and a PP goal would have done wonders for the game. We play an amazing game for the most part when we score first. We will score more in a couple years when the young guys develop their all around game.

Our 1st periods this year need to be like our 3rd periods which haven't been. I hope Horachek is practicing the PP until it's automatic for the guys. If the PP is fixed, we will win alot more games with the recent effort level we've had the last 12 games. This off-season is going to be Tallon's most important regarding his "blueprint" and how it will be reviewed at the end of the 2014-15 season. If we're not a playoff bubble team by next year, I think Dale will be looking for work somewhere else.

 

[Pantherfan12]

First opportunity I have had to post today. Long ride home from the game and then a 10 hour work day.

My wife put it best last night. The worst game we have been at this year and we haven't missed one yet. Team had no jump in them, passes were weak, and several scoring chances - one timers for example - were just plain whiffed on.

Frustrating game to watch and listen to Ranger fans both at the game and at work today.

Team needs everything. I don't think Guds played badly, Kuli looked out of sorts, Olsen looked okay, the rest of the defenders were terrible.

On offense I don't know what is wrong with Huberdeau. He is a non factor this season. Barkov I give a pass to as he is 18 and learning the NHL rink/game. Some of his passes are incredible and some make me shake my head wondering why he tried the pass. Bjugs looks by far the best on the ice. He is strong, has great reach, and is quicker than what he appears. Barch looked good too!

This is looming to be a long, tiring, frustrating season.

Sorry for the late rant!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all (in the US).

What game were you watching?? the worst game of the season? Seriously? We DOMINATED the entire game except on the scoreboard. I know the scoreboard is the only stat the counts at the end of the day, but c'mon. Seriously? I thought it was one of their best games actually. Yes, like any other team, we have struggles and parts of the game that need work but what more do you want out of a game? Huberdeau is having a typical sophomore slump, but the kid is still all over the place and giving all he's got and it's just a matter of time until he starts scoring again.

I was frustrated because I was watching the Panthers steamroll the NYR and we came out on the losing end. Thomas gave up some weak goals and we missed some prime scoring chances but again, we came out swinging and I was expecting a win.

 

[Dread Clawz]

What game were you watching?? the worst game of the season? Seriously? We DOMINATED the entire game except on the scoreboard. I know the scoreboard is the only stat the counts at the end of the day, but c'mon. Seriously? I thought it was one of their best games actually. Yes, like any other team, we have struggles and parts of the game that need work but what more do you want out of a game? Huberdeau is having a typical sophomore slump, but the kid is still all over the place and giving all he's got and it's just a matter of time until he starts scoring again.

I was frustrated because I was watching the Panthers steamroll the NYR and we came out on the losing end. Thomas gave up some weak goals and we missed some prime scoring chances but again, we came out swinging and I was expecting a win.

I agree, like Horachek said, we had good energy for most of the game, but we didn't manage the puck well in some situations. Work ethic was not a problem. For the 1st 10 min. of the first we dominated the Rangers. And we had good energy throughout most of the rest of the game. The plain and simple fact is that we can't score goals. We usually get scored on first, and then get backed into a corner by the 3rd period, and then have to score 2-3 goals to come back and tie it. WE should have been the team up 2-0, that's if we could score. We deserved it.

If goal scoring is not addressed this season, we are going to lose a lot of close games. And the only way to address it this season is through trade.

 

[ShootIt]

Yea, I was telling my gf that it was ridiculous that We had the SOG and Puck possession time yet We were down the entire game. Rangers didn't look all that impressive Wednesday night.
They didn't dominate the panthers, except on the scoreboard.