GDT: 11/15 7pm Sharks @ Oilers -- Hoping to keep the shutout streak going

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree with your general conclusion. However, in terms of their play, see it like this:

Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Hertl, Wingels, Kennedy, are playing well. On top of that, you have Nieto, who is going through a bit of a rough patch, and Sheppard, who's put together a bunch of consistent games. So, the way I see it, 8 out of the top 9 forward spots are already occupied by someone who deserves it. Then, you have to choose between Nieto and Havlat. Not only is Nieto's development an issue, but Nieto doesn't have nearly the amount of question marks Havlat has...I think TMac's assessment of why Nieto is struggling is sufficient.

So, you then have to deploy Havlat on the fourth line. He might as well bench him at that point.

As I said, I do think it will take more time for Havlat to fully recover and find some chemistry with the team. But for his own sake, he needs to find it fast. There is only so much rope that he can be given; keep in mind that he wasn't exactly super-productive through ~40 games last season.

Eventually, Burns and Torres should be healthy. Things are going to get crowded fast, and Tmac is likely going to have to address the issue of which three play amongst Nieto, Hertl, Kennedy, Wingels, and now Havlat. Day-by-day, Hertl and Wingels are starting to pull away. Havlat is going to find himself competing with a very tough group.

Even if you find 9 guys better than him, you don't bench him because he's on the 4th line. If you want to get the guy back into game shape, even 4th line minutes help.

 

[Lebanezer]

Buffalo? You mean the game that he actually produced points and was a big reason why they even got a point when everyone sucked that night? The only thing that has stifled what is the 1st line is Marleau and Couture when they have their off nights.

Just to add to this, here's a quote from fear the fin after the Buffalo game

I thought it would take a bit longer for Martin Havlat to get back into game shape after missing training camp, preseason and the first month of the regular season but he was flying in this one and was probably the Sharks' best player after Wingels. He assisted on 7 of the Sharks' 25 scoring chances in addition to taking two of his own. His skating and decision-making in the neutral zone were also pristine as he generated tons of clean entries and played a big role in his linemates dominating the middle part of the ice.

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

Finally a win in regulation. I thought we played a good game, most of the game. Still need to play a 60 minute game so to speak. We did a nice job of cutting down on turnovers also.

I am liking Stalock and his ability to move the puck, i'm hoping this develops some more as it would really be an asset to the team. I'm not sure about his side to side mobility yet, at times he appeared to be slower in getting there... not sure if this is not being able to see and or read the play or just some mobility problems. Still giveing off some bigger rebounds also.

 

[do0glas]

On that missed wrap around by the oilers, why did stalock not push back across as the puck went behind his net?

Other than that, amazing game from him!

 

[The Ice Hockey Dude]

On that missed wrap around by the oilers, why did stalock not push back across as the puck went behind his net?

Other than that, amazing game from him!

I saw 1 or 2 other times also...

yea, he was very solid last night.

 

[hockeyball]

On that missed wrap around by the oilers, why did stalock not push back across as the puck went behind his net?

Other than that, amazing game from him!

It looked like he thought the puck was under him.

 

[sr228]

I'd say havlat got noticeably less effective after the buffalo game. It was regression to the point that he had the nothing game.

Havlat is not a core piece of this team, he's a fill in just like Kennedy wingels Torres and Sheppard. So he's likely to get scratched now and then.

If havlat isn't physically capable of this system, he needs to go. I doubt a condition stint would've helped much as he'd still have no chemistry with the style we are going for.

I doubt that was his last game in teal, so let's see how he responds to a healthy scratch.

I mentioned it after his first game back and my thoughts haven't changed, his skating has taken a major hit. His skating stride is (for a lack of a better word) janky, there's no power at all in his first couple of steps and he has very little acceleration.

He was pretty good against Phoenix and great in the Buffalo game, outside of that game he's been at best ineffective. I'm actually really impressed with the coaches for scratching him (said the same thing about Stuart).

I don't think that was his last game as a Shark either but if his skating doesn't recover I have to agree with you, he's not going to fit into the system the coaches want to play.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I saw 1 or 2 other times also...

yea, he was very solid last night.

Hes not very good at tracking the puck like Nemo is. He played a good game..gives a little more stability than Greiss did.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

Havlat was a ghost against Vancouver, but we are all speculating that it was lack of effort. Perhaps he was benched on the back end of a back to back because he is still coming back from major surgery and needs the rest. Havlat looked ok when he returned for a few games but he has been slower. Perhaps he returned earlier than he should have because of the Burns injury.

 

[Mattb124]

I mentioned it after his first game back and my thoughts haven't changed, his skating has taken a major hit. His skating stride is (for a lack of a better word) janky, there's no power at all in his first couple of steps and he has very little acceleration.

This has been noticeable. There are a few players I can identify during a game just because of their skating posture/stride. Havlat used to be one, but not any more. I think the surgery has significantly affected how he skates. It isn't that his skating is bad now, but I do not think his skating is as good as it was.

 

[Barrie22]

I just find it hard to believe that McLellan would scratch Havlat for that reason. I mean, Marleau was absolutely terrible some games and he never got scratched.
I ask again (not in a condescending way since I actually didn't listen to the interviews), did McLellan ever elaborate why he scratched Havlat? Could it be that he's not ready for back-to-backs?

how often have you ever seen marleau put up 0's across the board stat wise.

and i don't just mean in points wise, havlat had 0 points, 0 shots, 0 blocks, 0 hits, 0 take aways, 0 give aways. only time i have ever seen that kind of stat line, is from someone that played his 1st shift and then got injured.

 

[SJeasy]

Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Hertl, Wingels, Kennedy, are playing well. On top of that, you have Nieto, who is going through a bit of a rough patch, and Sheppard, who's put together a bunch of consistent games. So, the way I see it, 8 out of the top 9 forward spots are already occupied by someone who deserves it. Then, you have to choose between Nieto and Havlat. Not only is Nieto's development an issue, but Nieto doesn't have nearly the amount of question marks Havlat has...I think TMac's assessment of why Nieto is struggling is sufficient.

Kennedy has been spotty. TM has been demoting him in-game. Turnovers and getting to spots. Other than that, I agree about the guys who are doing well. If everyone is healthy Torres included, the first move will be Nieto to Woostah. I don't think Nieto will be in Woostah next year; just this year to accommodate the cap.

 

[SJeasy]

how often have you ever seen marleau put up 0's across the board stat wise.

and i don't just mean in points wise, havlat had 0 points, 0 shots, 0 blocks, 0 hits, 0 take aways, 0 give aways. only time i have ever seen that kind of stat line, is from someone that played his 1st shift and then got injured.

The 0 line happens with 4th liners all the time. Guys who only get 5-8 minutes a game. It is usually a signal that they will sit in the near future.

Marleau gets blamed a lot, but he usually isn't truly failing in the coaches eyes unless his shots line (SOG, missed and blocked combined), takes a big hit.

 

[do0glas]

Kennedy has been spotty. TM has been demoting him in-game. Turnovers and getting to spots. Other than that, I agree about the guys who are doing well. If everyone is healthy Torres included, the first move will be Nieto to Woostah. I don't think Nieto will be in Woostah next year; just this year to accommodate the cap.

Kennedy being demoted has been the exception. he's also been promoted as well. For instance, him playing with pavs last game was less a demotion and more because mccarthy+sheppard is basically a 4th line even if you add little joe. He isn't as consistent as you'd like though. Wingels plays one way no matter what line he is on. I notice that when kennedy gets with couture he goes full F1 which is where he is best, but with thornton he tries to be F3, and with pavelski there isn't enough sample to really say.

When torres is back, and havlat still not clicking (just a possibility) I think the spot next to couture is between those two. Torres-pavs-wingels was very effective though, versus marleau-couture-torres imo. so I expect kennedy to end up there and shep-desi and someone (could be nieto) end up on that fourth line.

its crazy to say, but wingels is on a 49 pt pace at ES. thats clowe in his prime. Cant imagine he keeps it up, but even a 20 point dip puts him in top six production territory.

The sharks I think have 4 players in the top 50 at ES hertl, thornton, wingels, couture. in that order.

just glancing, I think only ottawa, anaheim and maybe st. louis are equal or better. but seriously, that was a quick glance. i imagine I'm missing some teams.

as a side note

boyle is on a 28 point pace at ES right now. 2 points away from his 48 game total last year in only 13 games. both vlasic and braun have beaten their point totals from last year.

just illustrates how weird a 48 game season is imo.

tl;dr-we are pretty good at ES this year.

 

[SactoShark]

Hes not very good at tracking the puck like Nemo is. He played a good game..gives a little more stability than Greiss did.

Vets track pucks and define their space. The younger goalies seem to play where they have room and over-compensate a lot. Stalock swims side to side a lot like Greiss did, but I'm sure he'll clean that up. He's active and aggressive, and it's good to see. His stick skills haven't been seen on this team in ages.

 

[hockeyball]

Vets track pucks and define their space. The younger goalies seem to play where they have room and over-compensate a lot. Stalock swims side to side a lot like Greiss did, but I'm sure he'll clean that up. He's active and aggressive, and it's good to see. His stick skills haven't been seen on this team in ages.

I'm trying to think when the last 'good' stick handler we had in goal was? I don't recall Toskala being good, and Greiss, was just ok. Kiprusoff was decent as I recall. Was Steve Shields any good? I can't remember...

As far as I can recall Stalock may be the best/only goalie we've ever had that really excelled at puck handling.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm trying to think when the last 'good' stick handler we had in goal was? I don't recall Toskala being good, and Greiss, was just ok. Kiprusoff was decent as I recall. Was Steve Shields any good? I can't remember...

As far as I can recall Stalock may be the best/only goalie we've ever had that really excelled at puck handling.

The last one was Nabokov.

 

[Teamplaya]

This might have been addressed before, but is Desjardins alright?

 

[hockeyball]

The last one was Nabokov.

Nabokov was not a good puck handler. He was OK at best. Most of the time I was screaming at the TV "GET BACK IN THE NET YOU IDIOT" whenever he would go on his little adventures.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This might have been addressed before, but is Desjardins alright?

I'm sure he is.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Nabokov was not a good puck handler. He was OK at best. Most of the time I was screaming at the TV "GET BACK IN THE NET YOU IDIOT" whenever he would go on his little adventures.

Compared to goalies in the NHL, yes, Nabokov was a good puck handler. Was he the best? Certainly not but he was absolutely a good puck-handler for a goalie.

 

[hockeyball]

Compared to goalies in the NHL, yes, Nabokov was a good puck handler. Was he the best? Certainly not but he was absolutely a good puck-handler for a goalie.

Could he put the puck where he meant to? Yah, in that sense he could handle the puck. Was his decision making good? No, it was terrible. Was he even in Stalock's league, let alone Mike Smith, Turco, Broduer? Hell no. Again, he was 'ok', I wouldn't even call it 'good'.

 

[hockfan1991]

Could he put the puck where he meant to? Yah, in that sense he could handle the puck. Was his decision making good? No, it was terrible. Was he even in Stalock's league, let alone Mike Smith, Turco, Broduer? Hell no. Again, he was 'ok', I wouldn't even call it 'good'.

Yes in the back if the net. One of the few. To be honest Nabokov wasn't great. But he is the best we have had. Shields wasn't great. If you want to dig deeper terreri wasn't any good either not Vernon. We will see how stalock does by seasons end. Niemi is much worse and gas caused already a few panics thus season. But there is no reward to it. He needs to stay in the net

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Could he put the puck where he meant to? Yah, in that sense he could handle the puck. Was his decision making good? No, it was terrible. Was he even in Stalock's league, let alone Mike Smith, Turco, Broduer? Hell no. Again, he was 'ok', I wouldn't even call it 'good'.

Turco, Smith, and Brodeur are great. Nabokov was good. To say otherwise is absurdly high standards for what good puck-handler for a goalie is.

 

[hockeyball]

Turco, Smith, and Brodeur are great. Nabokov was good. To say otherwise is absurdly high standards for what good puck-handler for a goalie is.

Sorry, I just don't see it. You have to be able to put the puck where you want it AND have good timing/decision making, something Nabokov was dreadful at. Yah he had the one goal, and that means something, but no way am I calling him 'good'