Post-Game Talk: 11/12/19 | #16 penguins @ RANGERS

[True Blue]

first off coulda done without the attitude but frankly Panarin has shown chemistry with everyone. So yes putting him next to literally anyone (he’s playing with 2 bottom 6 guys right now) will show chemistry. He and Mika and Buchy showed tons of chemistry.

There is no attitude. There is me stating that simply plugging in anyone next to an elite player does not mean that everything goes on as normal. Then let's also face reality that he is not playing with two bottom 6 players. He is playing with one in Fast. And I do not see Fast's production increasing while on that line. Strome is on a different level and his production and Panarin's is just fine.

secondly the first and 3rd lines are not working. That is false. They are surviving. The metrics all show them hanging on for dear life. Panarin and his line have been extremely opportunistic but they’ve been buried repeatedly.

Judging by Panrin's & Strome's points, the first line seems to be doing just fine. How are they simply "surviving"? On the third, they are not doing poorly either. I would move Howden, but short of that both Kakko and Lemieux are doing fine.

This idea that he and Lemieux have this chemistry just isn’t true. They spend most of their shifts in the d zone.

Your facts are more true than mine?

the idea of taking some pressure off him to get him going has definitely worked but it definitely doesn’t mean it should continue long term. He’s a high end player and should be playing with high end players.

A) the season is not even a quarter of the way in. What exactly is the rush? And good chances that what management views as long term and you do are entirely two different things. I would believe that long term for them extends well beyond this season.

B) Young players tend to get bigger roles when they earn it and are ready for it.

C) What has Kakko shown you and for how long that you have deemed that he has earned the right to play with such high end players?

 

[Siddi]

Wrong sport. You're thinking Brodie.

I was thinking Gomez for McD.

 

[Kovalev27]

Facts can’t be more true than others they are either true or not facts. The metrics show them getting buried repeatedly. And I’m not an analytics guy but the smell test says the same.

the third line again spends most of the time defending desperately. They have not shown chemistry other than that one goal yesterday. Kakko’s production has not been due to his even strength linemates.

and yes Strome and Fast have long nhl careers as bottom 6 players now they’re not? Panarin is carrying them. Panarin Mika and Buch put up a ton of points as well. Panarin next to anyone has put up a ton of points thru his career. I’m not sure how this is debatable.

the lines outside of line 2 have really struggled and have won games with great goaltending and some opportunistic goals. But hardly sustainable. We need Mika back desperately

 

[Cag29]

Matthew Robertson would like to have a word with you.

This also gives us great depth and the ability to create a package to get a game breaking type player if the opportunity arises.

 

[Cag29]

Facts can’t be more true than others they are either true or not facts. The metrics show them getting buried repeatedly. And I’m not an analytics guy but the smell test says the same.

the third line again spends most of the time defending desperately. They have not shown chemistry other than that one goal yesterday. Kakko’s production has not been due to his even strength linemates.

and yes Strome and Fast have long nhl careers as bottom 6 players now they’re not? Panarin is carrying them. Panarin Mika and Buch put up a ton of points as well. Panarin next to anyone has put up a ton of points thru his career. I’m not sure how this is debatable.

the lines outside of line 2 have really struggled and have won games with great goaltending and some opportunistic goals. But hardly sustainable. We need Mika back desperately

With Mika back what line combos do you like?

 

[kovazub94]

Annnnd......No.

The presumption that you can just plug somebody next to an elite player and no one will miss a beat is one of the more inaccurate assumptions one can make. Not EVERYONE could make passes to Panarin like Strome can and does. Not EVERYONE automatically gells next to such players. Kakko looked awful when auditioning on the top line. He looks to have comfort and confidence since being moved down and playing on a line with Lemieux. Coincidence? Maybe. But why mess with something and try to ram Kakko into a role he may not be ready for yet? He is building confidence and producing. Why would you be willing to mess with that? Young players are given bigger roles as they a) earn them and b) are ready for them.

Not all players meshed with Gretzky as center. Not everyone will simply gel with Panarin. Right now, he has someone that is and that someone is not an elite player. Again, why mess with that?

First of all Kakko is not "somebody to plug". That argument would've worked if we were discussing replacing Strome with Howden or Andersson, for example. Kakko replacing Strome in top-6 is really just a question of when he's ready (assuming other spots go to Zibanejad, Panarin, Buchnevich, Chytil and Kreider). Based on what Kakko has been showing lately I think this time is coming sooner rather than later.

At that point Strome becomes an insurance for a top-6 spot and a regular on 3rd line where the question becomes do we keep Howden as 3C or push him down to 4C (Andersson to Hartford) and have Lemieux - Strome - Fast as 3rd line.

 

[Kovalev27]

With Mika back what line combos do you like?

Panarin Mika Kakko
Kreider Chytil Buchnevich
Lemieux Strome Fast
Smith Howden McKegg
Haley

Lias first line for Hartford

 

[Mike in Houston]

Panarin Mika Kakko
Kreider Chytil Buchnevich
Lemieux Strome Fast
Smith Howden McKegg
Haley

Lias first line for Hartford

Seems like it's where it's headed.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

With Mika back, I would like to see:

Panarin - Mika - Fast
Kredier - Chytil - Buch
Lemieux - Strome - Kakko
Mckegg - Howden/Andersson - Smith


Don't mess with success. 2nd line has been great. Keep it. Kakko and Lemeiux have looked great together, and I think they would do well to have a veteran centering that line in Strome. Fast is fine on the first line with two absolute dynamos.

I still think 1RW is Kakko's to take eventually, but he is just starting to put it together so I think we should wait a bit longer until putting him back up there.

 

[Kovalev27]

Seems like it's where it's headed.

I think it’s the right move but I have to also keep in mind Quinn’s love for Howden. If that holds I can see Strome moving to the right wing and the third line staying the same.

then maybe you see a 4th line with Fast on it.

but to me this is far from ideal. We need some stability on that third line in Strome and Fast and we need to get Kakko up there with 10 and 93. He’s ready imo.

 

[True Blue]

First of all Kakko is not "somebody to plug". That argument would've worked if we were discussing replacing Strome with Howden or Andersson, for example. Kakko replacing Strome in top-6 is really just a question of when he's ready (assuming other spots go to Zibanejad, Panarin, Buchnevich, Chytil and Kreider). Based on what Kakko has been showing lately I think this time is coming sooner rather than later.

I utilized the semantics because the refrain was that you can put a garbage can out there with Panarin and it would be productive. I whole hardheartedly disagree.

Regarding Kakko replacing Strome in the top 6; yes, that time will certainly come. I have absolutely no idea if it is in 5 games or in 10 or in 50. Or if it is during this year at all. Again, young players take on bigger roles when they have earned it and are ready to assume such roles. As of right now, just when Kakko is developing confidence, I would not make such an assumption. But I am not the coaching staff and they will deem when that is necessary. I am a proponent of letting him develop at his own pace and not be in a rush to pound a square peg into a round hole when it is simply not necessary. Kakko's time will come. I am sure of it. But that time may not necessarily be in 2019.

At that point Strome becomes an insurance for a top-6 spot and a regular on 3rd line where the question becomes do we keep Howden as 3C or push him down to 4C (Andersson to Hartford) and have Lemiuex - Strome - Fast as 3rd line

I agree that when it is time for Kakko to muscle his way into a top-6 role, it will be very interesting as to what happens regarding Strome and Howden/Andersson. Time will tell. I would not automatically assume that he would also be the new center on the third line. Could be Buchnevich. Again, let's see how things shake out.

 

[offdacrossbar]

watching highlights.

buchnevich should have had 3 goals

guy cant finish

 

[Shesterkybomb]

watching highlights.

buchnevich should have had 3 goals

guy cant finish

He can, was just unlucky last night. I'd be more worried if the opportunities werent there for him. He is smart enough to get himself into spots for scoring chances.

 

[Kovalev27]

I have no idea how Buchy missed that brilliant set up from Chytil. Chytil faked out the whole building sliding that pass over. Should have been a lay up

 

[kovazub94]

watching highlights.

buchnevich should have had 3 goals

guy cant finish

C'mon. He got 20 last year and he does have a bullet of a shot too. He's snake-bitten at the moment but he'll get one and then they will start coming in bunches.

 

[offdacrossbar]

C'mon. He got 20 last year and he does have a bullet of a shot too. He's snake-bitten at the moment but he'll get one and then they will start coming in bunches.

oh dont get me wrong. hes talented

he just can seem to buy one tho. some great setups and nada.

hes good for 25 easy with some luck

 

[Captain Lindy]

I watched the OT goal replay again and, wow... serious case of Malkin controller disconnection there.



Couldn't happen to a nicer player.

Fox made a nice poke check there to make Malkin malfunction.

Then he made that unbelievable pass to Kakko on a beautiful play/goal.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

And then what?

Be a powerhouse for the next decade with a #losingculture ?

I understood that reference

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I couldn't stay up for all of it, but holy mama that GWG!

I can clearly remember Kakko's face at the beginning of the game. His line started the game.
They show his face, and it looked ice-cold, mean stare: "oh, it's on tonight mofos!"

Delivered again.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Great job by fox taking the middle and drawing attention over to him. Good job on kk to get to the right spot but I was reading about this amazing pass. It was a short, easy pass to a wide open stick. The pass wasnt great, it was great movement and positioning

 

[JHS]

First of all Kakko is not "somebody to plug". That argument would've worked if we were discussing replacing Strome with Howden or Andersson, for example. Kakko replacing Strome in top-6 is really just a question of when he's ready (assuming other spots go to Zibanejad, Panarin, Buchnevich, Chytil and Kreider). Based on what Kakko has been showing lately I think this time is coming sooner rather than later.

At that point Strome becomes an insurance for a top-6 spot and a regular on 3rd line where the question becomes do we keep Howden as 3C or push him down to 4C (Andersson to Hartford) and have Lemieux - Strome - Fast as 3rd line.

I think one aspect to consider is Kappo on the top line inserts him in a position where he is expected to produce. He's 18- we need to be fair with him and allow the pressure to be on other guys before we crush him. I think one of the reasons his game has improved recently is he appears way more confident that he looked early in the season( which makes total sense as he's settling in.)

We also need to think about line combinations here. Panarin, Mica and Kappo are all guys who play similar styles. I'm not sure who the guy on that line is who will go dig the puck out and feed the others. Sometimes coaches are looking to get lines in which each player serves a role on the ice and has skill sets that complement each other. I like to think of it like, the mucker( who grinds down low and feeds the other guys the puck) the feeder( the guy who sets up the scorer) and the finisher( the guy who is primarily the shooter.) I think that's why Kappo is a good fit in the role and line he's on now.

 

[offdacrossbar]

malkin showing exactly zero interest in getting back after that horrendous blind pass from behind the net and then he glided back into the zone like he was on auto pilot.

classic lazy russian

 

[JimmyG89]

Buch now got a secondary assist on that goal in OT.

Looking over the replay, after Fox deflected the puck off of Malkin, Buch went into the corner with him and tipped his pass back to the middle and Fox went the other way with it.

That's the kind of things that Buchnevich is now doing that is getting him on the ice in important situations. He would not have been out there for 3 on 3 at this time last season.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Great job by fox taking the middle and drawing attention over to him. Good job on kk to get to the right spot but I was reading about this amazing pass. It was a short, easy pass to a wide open stick. The pass wasnt great, it was great movement and positioning

I think the pass too, was perfect. It's was just slow and fast enough to get past Schultz (?) but not past Kakko. With a sell too. Fox didn't look to Kakko once he turned to the middle of the ice, as to fake the D out: "take me, I don't see my guy on the left." Psyche!

I agree, Fox and KK showed tremendous smarts in setting the whole thing up.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

The whole play was perfect....Fox sold that play going to the right side whole way....credit the player on the right (Buch) for continuing hard down the right side and getting into position to receive the pass.