GDT: 10/6/18 - 7:00PM EDT - Florida vs Tampa Bay

[DFC]

Agreed. McD was about the only encouraging thing about that game besides the Cirelli line with Joseph and Killorn, and Vasi of course. I was one of the guys thinking the McD signing was going to bite us, but that was a big improvement over what we saw last year. Now if our coach only had the guts to do what MTL is doing – healthy scratching slow veterans (Alzner, Plekanec) and playing the faster kids – we could help our D even more. Girardi is going off the Matt Carle cliff. He is too slow for top pair minutes. Bring up Cernak and healthy scratch him.

Yeah, I'd like to bring up Cernak so we could put Girardi back on the third pairing, and alternate them. Sergachev has been underwhelming since camp though, so it might be a bit tricky to shelter him at the same time.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Not sure we would have won without Lou getting injured yet again (poor guy). The team picked up right we’re they left last playoffs: outshot, outhustled, no heart. Scary really but I’m sure Coop will focus on the positive and it’ll all be good so we can disappear in the same manner in two elimination games in a row in the ECF in June and comment it “it was their turn lulz w/e”.

 

[The Macho King]

I really don't like Coop as a coach. I don't think it's a coincidence that we always end up having offensive struggles in every playoff series against a good team.

 

[DFC]

The lack of shoot-first players is both troubling and puzzling. It's like guys who spend more than a couple of years here will automatically start passing up Grade A opportunities. Kucherov was beyond frustrating Saturday night, but Point was very guilty of it too. I think maybe the reason why Killorn looked good is because it was refreshing to see a guy play a straightforward no-nonsense game, when everybody else was treating the game like a skills competition.

 

[Master P]

I really don't like Coop as a coach. I don't think it's a coincidence that we always end up having offensive struggles in every playoff series against a good team.

I think its time for a new voice. He'll have no problem finding a head coaching position on another team but I feel like the players are to the point that they are just tuning him out. It also doesn't help that he fails to adapt in the playoffs. That caps series was so hard to watch, you could almost see the players just going through the motions because they knew what they were doing wasn't working.

 

[Rschmitz]

I'm of the opposite opinion. Cooper took over for a guy in Boucher who relied on a counter attack for the vast majority of his 5v5 offense. I hated it.

Coopers system is a possession type of offense so the team thinks pass first instead of shoot and possibly lose possession. It's frustrating to see the team not shoot, but that's on them, they have to know when to retain puck possession and when a scoring opportunity presents itself.

It works out tremendously for us both offensively and defensively when our team is using it's speed and in sync, but when we miss passes and coast than we basically throw away the positives that come with a style that stresses puck control

 

[Sky04]

I'm of the opposite opinion. Cooper took over for a guy in Boucher who relied on a counter attack for the vast majority of his 5v5 offense. I hated it.

Coopers system is a possession type of offense so the team thinks pass first instead of shoot and possibly lose possession. It's frustrating to see the team not shoot, but that's on them, they have to know when to retain puck possession and when a scoring opportunity presents itself.

It works out tremendously for us both offensively and defensively when our team is using it's speed and in sync, but when we miss passes and coast than we basically throw away the positives that come with a style that stresses puck control

You just outlined the coaching issue......and the flaw of the HC not seeing it or correcting it. You know what else is a huge flaw in this system? It leads to a perimeter game that has been the death of us in the playoffs, because retaining possession is done easily on the outside.

Ironically enough since you pointed it out, the Lightning have looked their most dangerous in the playoffs when playing a counter attack game, creating odd man rushes and finshing on them - this strategy has caused teams to play more conservative against the Lighnting. There are strengths to both strategies, both of which can be beneficial to the Lightning, staying glued to a single one is the death of this team.

Cooper changed from a possession game against the Islanders because theyre significantly slower than us to a counter attacking game against the Pens who were faster than us, we lost the series but that's the one year I don't fault him for anything, he made a change for the better. The Washginton and Chicago series were complete system failures.

 

[Rschmitz]

....and the flaw of the HC not seeing it or correcting it.

Is this an anecdotal observation? If so, what makes you believe the players simply aren't executing what they're being coached to do?

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

 

[DFC]

Is this an anecdotal observation? If so, what makes you believe the players simply aren't executing what they're being coached to do?

It would have to be every one of them.

I waver a lot on my views of Cooper, but when you see 18 guys doing the same things over and over, it's hard to believe it's coming from anywhere but the coach. That said, I think Coop deserves more credit for when we're good, because sometimes we're really, really good. But I think it's often on him when we're bad too.

 

[DFC]

The PK could be the one major difference between this year and last. I don't think we're gonna get as hot as we did early last year, but a good PK could make us a little more consistent.

 

[Rschmitz]

It would have to be every one of them.

I waver a lot on my views of Cooper, but when you see 18 guys doing the same things over and over, it's hard to believe it's coming from anywhere but the coach. That said, I think Coop deserves more credit for when we're good, because sometimes we're really, really good. But I think it's often on him when we're bad too.

Doesn't compute with me. Unless we believe that the coaching staff is telling our forwards to pass out of scoring opportunities, akin to an NFL coaching staff telling QB's to pass into tight coverage, I don't think we can levy blame on the coaches. The players do any ways, in spite of the coaching. Some systems just train inherently bad habits into their player base, but it's still up to the players to go out there and execute, in this case, to shoot the damn puck when the opportunity presents itself.

For a high skill, fast skating team such as ourselves, the system is perfect, the execution isn't. If there is evidence to the contrary, that the coaching staff is telling players to pass out of good scoring opportunities, I will concede the point and agree with you all.

 

[T REX]

We looked awful. Going back to last year...1 goal ok 3 + games? Cooper watch will start if the offense continues to struggle.

 

[Iceman]

I really don't like Coop as a coach. I don't think it's a coincidence that we always end up having offensive struggles in every playoff series against a good team.

That’s why I don’t like player’s coaches. They might work for a team battling confidence issues in the regular season but those coaches rarely have solutions to problems, particularly ones that appear in the playoffs. Their ”magic dust” doesn’t work when you are facing a tough challenge.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Not sure we would have won without Lou getting injured yet again (poor guy). The team picked up right we’re they left last playoffs: outshot, outhustled, no heart. Scary really but I’m sure Coop will focus on the positive and it’ll all be good so we can disappear in the same manner in two elimination games in a row in the ECF in June and comment it “it was their turn lulz w/e”.

You are the last person on this board that I would expect to post this

 

[DFC]

We looked awful. Going back to last year...1 goal ok 3 + games? Cooper watch will start if the offense continues to struggle.

I think Cooper and Brisebois are even closer than Cooper/Yzerman. I don't see his seat warming up any time soon.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think Cooper and Brisebois are even closer than Cooper/Yzerman. I don't see his seat warming up any time soon.

I dont think he gets canned unless we dont make the playoffs, are an early exit from playoffs, or have too slow of a start.

 

[T REX]

I dont think he gets canned unless we dont make the playoffs, are an early exit from playoffs, or have too slow of a start.

That was just an awful game. The lack of shooting under Cooper has to change. I'm tired of screaming "shoot it" either at Amalie or at my TV.

 

[waterboy65]

I am not going to get worked up over a single reg season game! Coaching changes were made on the defensive side and so there is a new voice on that side of the blue line. Overall the D played so-so against FL. Yes there were a lot of shots given up but only a few were grade A chances. This team can be much better than last year simply by improving on D and the PK! As for not shooting enough, yes that was an issue last game but FL also possessed the puck a fair amount. The top two lines for the Panthers are really good and our top two lines were arguably our worst 2 lines in the game. Cooper is not going to be fired this year so any talk about this topic is just a waste of time.

I still think our lack of size is what gets us into trouble when we are not playing aggressive! This shows up against big teams such as the Panthers, Capitals and Pens. We do well against smaller teams like the Rangers, Blackhawks and Leafs who dont have the size to bother us. Lack of shots is often not being aggressive enough!

 

[CupsOverCash]

That was just an awful game. The lack of shooting under Cooper has to change. I'm tired of screaming "shoot it" either at Amalie or at my TV.

I agree. There isnt any reason why our team should ever be shut out or held within a goal or two. If our D can be stable then I would let our forwards rip it more. Possession is good but it wont help if you arent getting scoring chances too.

 

[HoseEmDown]

With 6 of the top 9 locked up long term, Point and Cirelli aren't going anywhere either, we will have to hope they remember how to shoot. We have shoot first guys in the system like Volkov, Katchouk and Stephens there's just no spots for them. Hopefully Cooper sees the issues and adjusts the lineups to get more balanced lines. Kucherov will shoot when not with Stamkos, Johnson is a shooter so when he's back that should help, Killorn isn't a great shooter but he's not afraid to and he goes hard to the net, Gourde likes to shoot too and Point had 30 goals. Cooper just needs to stop making Stamkos - Kucherov a thing, just splitting them up would make the lines that much better.

 

[The Macho King]

The issue I have with splitting Kucherov and Stamkos is that...

Stamkos really isn't that good. I'm just going to put it out there, but I think if he was on a line with average talent (as opposed to Kucherov), he's put up like 55-65 points right now. He's good on the PP (although frustrating at times), but even strength he's just so mediocre.

 

[Sky04]

The issue I have with splitting Kucherov and Stamkos is that...

Stamkos really isn't that good. I'm just going to put it out there, but I think if he was on a line with average talent (as opposed to Kucherov), he's put up like 55-65 points right now. He's good on the PP (although frustrating at times), but even strength he's just so mediocre.

That's my initial thought as well, but it is the regular season and you do have time to experiment. If all else fails you just reunite them and take the bad games with the good.
Wouldn't mind seeing Palat-Point-Kucherov reunited.

Palat-Point-Kucherov
Gourde-Stamkos-Joseph
Miller-Cirelli-Johnson

Not like Stamkos won't have good wingers to play with, Miller, Gourde, and Joseph would be interchangable and all have talent.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Is it Thursday yet?

 

[Sky04]

Doesn't compute with me. Unless we believe that the coaching staff is telling our forwards to pass out of scoring opportunities, akin to an NFL coaching staff telling QB's to pass into tight coverage, I don't think we can levy blame on the coaches. The players do any ways, in spite of the coaching. Some systems just train inherently bad habits into their player base, but it's still up to the players to go out there and execute, in this case, to shoot the damn puck when the opportunity presents itself.

For a high skill, fast skating team such as ourselves, the system is perfect, the execution isn't. If there is evidence to the contrary, that the coaching staff is telling players to pass out of good scoring opportunities, I will concede the point and agree with you all.

We're arguing semantics, obviously Cooper is not telling them in practice not to shoot, in fact I'd bet he's hammering that point down on a consistent basis but either the message isn't being heard, not being taught correctly or players don't care because there's no punishment in doing so. If they believe the reward of setting up a "pretty play" is higher than the consequence of passing up a good shooting opportunity that's because they know they can get away with it.

All of it seems like a coaching issue to me, if you're hammering these points down in practice but the players still go out and make the same mistakes then you're not doing your job. The players are failing to execute but it's not like these are new issues that need time to be worked out, this is on 3 years now we've seen the same things, and as DFC pointed out as players stay longer in this system the more they develop the same habit.