GDT: 10/26/17 - 7:30PM EDT - Detroit vs Tampa Bay
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These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
RegularSznAllStars
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Blashill seems to be doing nothing with that team. Yeah, they don’t have the skill to be truly competitive, but they don’t even seem to have a system in place. They are a f***ing train wreck. Howard and their pk were good, but literally nothing else.
The Macho King
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Sky04
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When exactly was zetterberg considered dirty? The guy has probably been on the other side 2 of the dirtiest plays the past 5 years. If you're referring to Stamkos he's been the recipeient of superstar treatment on some of his dirty plays, I recall a slewfoot and 2 brutal slashes by him just off the top off my head that the league turned an eye to.
Steazy Doo
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If one of those stars is Kucherov, he gives as good as he gets and then some. Kuch is not above the occasional two-hander, if someone gets under his skin.
The Macho King
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Bolt 45
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I said Zetterberg strayed closer to the line of being dirty, not that he was dirty. I deliberately called him greasy to emphasize that point. Semantics, obviously, but in my own lexicon I would classify last night's episode as greasy rather than dirty. Slimy or sleazy didn't quite feel accurate either, FWIW. Regardless, you can praise the garbage from last night all you want, as veteran wiles or whatever, but it lower's a player's value in my eyes, particularly if they make a habit of it, which Zetterberg does. It's cheating. Some guys respect the game, some don't. Look, the little unwritten rules in hockey are a part of the game, and the lines blur at times, I get it. I mean, if it's a closely contested Conference Final game, it's one thing, but night in, night out is a different story. Grabbing the stick is classic Zetterberg. Which I don't like. Kuch should have known better, as all but one or two of the possible outcomes were going to be bad*. But he was right to gripe about a guy grabbing his stick and tripping himself. Praise Zetterberg all you want.
Maybe I'm misreading your post... are you suggesting Stammer's dirty? If so, again, a couple of incidents over a career is different than making a habit of play like that. I mean, a slewfoot and two nasty slashes is essentially your average night out for a guy like Crosby, whom I'd actually go so far as to call a dirty player. But, more to the point, Vinnie, Brad and Marty were all pretty classy stars. Hedman is too.
*I haven't gone back and watched the replay, but if Kuch went between Zetterberg's legs trying to stealthily poke the puck into the empty net then he is a genius, a prankster, and a riverboat gambler all rolled into one. The house took his money last night, but he'll hit the jackpot again soon enough.
Bolt 45
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Fifty shades of grey, I suppose. I factor temper vs. composure as part my own personal metric for dirty play. Also, I'd point out stars like Marty, Brad and Hedman if searching for any sort organizational gold standard on the ice. Vinnie, too, but he played with more of an edge which some might view differently. I don't, but I could see how some might draw that distinction.
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These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
Can we take a second to give some more love to Kucherov's pass to Stamkos on the power play? Un-freaking-real how he puts it straight into Stamkos' wheelhouse with the perfect amount of zip, accuracy and at the perfect time. Not to mention he puts it within a 6 inch space between the stick and skates of Tatar.
I know I shouldn't describe it as a scoring race but it feels like it sometimes between him and Stamkos. And I know I'm prone to hyperbole but it's starting to feel like Vinny and Marty out there except different.
I know I shouldn't describe it as a scoring race but it feels like it sometimes between him and Stamkos. And I know I'm prone to hyperbole but it's starting to feel like Vinny and Marty out there except different.
I think you're looking at our players through rose-colored glasses. None of them are above a move like Zetterberg's. They're just not as good at it.
How is it between him and Stamkos when they always feed each other passes?
I think we mainly need to remember it when the pass gets broken up, which is most of the time. We only need it to work once.
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
It might sound greedy of me but I'm hoping Stamkos learns to thread the needle like that. Pick your poison works best when both guys can thread the needle like that and not just one. Kucherov only needs so many chances before it's gonna work. I'm not sure Stamkos has a pass like that in him yet but I'm sure we're bound to see it as the year goes on.
Sky04
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Dude, you do know that Vinny was notoriously know for spearing guys in the nuts right?
Rose colored glasses, lots of hockey players will do things to get an advantage especially vets, our guys aren't above it.
Bolt 45
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Notorious? I mean, I suppose it's possible... I didn't watch every single game of his career. I certainly don't remember seeing him do a whole lot of stuff that was unprovoked. He took a lot of abuse on the ice, that much I remember pretty clearly.
Edit: Furthermore, I'll always give an otherwise clean guy a pass on nights when the refs are letting guys take potshots at him and he loses it. The guys who do it no matter what are the guys I take issue with.
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I don't know if Stamkos can thread a needle like that, but he's definitely hit that seam when it's there. But Kuch's cross-ice fed gets broken up a lot too. I'm just saying I don't think we should stop doing it, because sometimes it does work, and it helps keep a goalie honest with a shooter when he knows the pass is a legit option.
Bolt 45
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Zetterberg is "good" at it because he has a ton of practice. Which is precisely the point. It's all the more egregious for the talent he has. It should be beneath him. I don't even like that Kuch petitions the refs for calls as often as he does on some nights, and that's not even remotely close to the same thing.
Teams have reputations. Ours, right now, it seems, is for being miniature agitators who love to dive. And I don't think that's too far off. Killorn, Callahan, Johnson (I'm sure there are more) have perfected chicken-winging a stick to get themselves a hooking call. The new thing seems to be dropping your stick to draw a slashing penalty. I'm sure we'll see more of that too.
I just think the "respecting the game" thing is taking it a little too far. Guys do whatever they have to do to get an edge with referees. Our GM, commonly thought of as one of the classiest players to ever lace up the skates, was a master at it.
The real greasy lines are the ones involving player safety. You don't want a guy taking headshots or looking to take out an opponent's knee. And, realistically, that kind of thing is much, much less common than it used to be. Probably ever. But a guy like Zetterberg finding a way to get a call? I hate seeing it happen against us, but I don't think it makes Zetterberg any less classy a player.
These Are The Days
Oh no! We suck again!!
Fully agree here. When I made the Lecavalier/St. Louis comparison it's because Vinny was at the point where he could score on a one-timer with roughly the same efficiency as Stamkos in his prime. But at the same time no one knew if Vinny was gonna shoot or fake you out with a pass. Back in the day teams were so scared shit-less of Mario Lemieux that sometimes they did not dare even move otherwise he'd put it between their toes to an open player. There were brief glimmers where Vinny was getting a similar respect in terms of defenders being unwilling to pressure him because Vinny could thread the needle too. Not nearly with the same efficiency as Mario but I think you know where I'm going with this because there were some times where Vinny would wind up, hesitate, the defender commits and the next thing you know someone like St. Louis is slipping through the back door and Vinny's already the puck on his teammate's stick. We saw Stamkos do that with Namestnikov a few times in the first few games of the year and I hope that the guys are still executing that little maneuver in practice.
To Kucherov's credit he's beginning show signs that he may one day match Vinny's passing efficiency. So even if the cross-ice pass to Stamkos does not work then big deal. We'll get another power play eventually and if the pass DOES work then it's gonna be in the back of the net. Otherwise we can just be content to see Kucherov rope a wrist shot into the back of the net.
All I can say is I could not be happier with what we are seeing. Either Todd Richards is a genius or Jon Cooper is the biggest special teams idiot of all time because all the bad habits that Kucherov in particular would commit have vanished since last year. He and Stralman alone could kill 5 power plays in one night for us.
I honestly had myself convinced that Kucherov didn't know how to power play correctly because he'd try passing back to the point at the WORST time, never shot enough, forced pucks through traffic into the slot and was just so goddamn clueless of what to do at all. If he got the puck it was gonna go out of the zone in 10 seconds or less due to him passing back to Stralman who bobbled it out, a blocked shot or a bad pass through 3 players that gets cleared.
Bolt 45
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I don't visit the other boards, so I honestly don't how other fanbases view us. I like to think our speed and flair has converted a few non-market fans in other areas, and that that's the general impression that anyone outside of Detroit and Montreal has of us. Who knows. You may be right.
I'm a fan, I'm never going to be dissapointed about a power play. But that doesn't mean I like, say, TJ playing the way he does. It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Always. And to be honest, it probably directly results in situations wherein a guy like Seabrook will effectively drop the puck to nobody on a rush in order to lay him out.
The way Yzerman played was fine. The game was a lot different then; every team had a legitimate goon, not just an agitator or a pest, and a fifty goal scorer who wanted a lengthy career had to go out of his way to protect himself from having his knees or wrists actively targeted. Thankfully the league has evolved. Now it can focus on cleaning up the dive artists and embellishers lest it turn into the parody of itself that soccer has become.
Again, as far as "respecting the game", I don't like the way Zetterberg plays. I'm sorry. Greasy maybe isn't the classiest word, ironically, but it's the only way I can think to describe it. I've yet to watch a game in which he hasn't done something similar, whether engineering a penalty call in his favor or finding a way to sneak in a penalty without getting caught. Other guys don't make that garbage a focal point of their game the way he does. I'll never like it.
And, again, it's all just pointless semantics, but I categorize the injury stuff, or even the dangerous stuff, as dirty. Zetterberg isn't dirty, he just plays a little closer to my own subjective line of what I'd classify as dirty. I hold skill players to a different standard, because they have the talent to get out of sticky situations without having to resort to cheap tricks.
We were on the verge of witnessing a one-on-one battle between two stars in the dying minutes of a close game. A duel. But Zetterberg was granted a dubious reprieve on a technicality. Had Zetterberg gone down without actively intending to, which very well could have ended up happening, it would have been a different story. But he chose the cheap way out. How any fan of the sport could feel like that was a pure outcome is beyond me. It just felt cheap. And greasy.
