I understand why the Hurricanes don't want to give up Hanifin for nothing, but part of Johansen's departure was wrapped up in his contract holdout. If the Canucks don't get the player they want in this draft, I doubt they offer more than the 7th overall. Travis Green doesn't like Hutton so he might be a throw-in.
Friedman: “Stealth team for Noah Hanifin: Vancouver”
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
tony d
Registered User
I can see why Vancouver would want Hanifin but do they have anyone on their team they'd want to trade in order to get Hanifin?
A quality young asset with many years of cost-controlled term ahead of him like Drouin or 3OA. Not arguing that the Habs should or would do that, but that's what Carolina should be asking for if Montreal calls.
Nucklehead Supreme
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- Jul 10, 2011
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No it absolutely wouldn't, you really need to research trade value, your completely clueless.
You really need to re-read what he wrote. He didn't say that the Canucks would or should offer Boeser/Horvat, or even that Hanifin is worth Boeser/Horvat.
It's possible that Hanifin is available, but only in Jones for Johansen-style swap. What else would the Canucks have to offer besides Boeser/Horvat, if they really wanted Hanifin, in that case?
Nucklehead Supreme
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Yah except the parameters around that trade were completely different, Johansen had to go, because of contract and the fact that him and Torts butted heads, Jones had to go because the the Preds had too many blue chip dmen. Context bud, its a beautiful thing.
Honestly I understand the overpayment aspect and don't disagree, the 7th OA certainly wouldn't be enough either, my opinion is this clickbait by Friedman is just that, there is no trade to be made here.
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The context would be relevant if someone was trying to argue that the Canucks should trade Boeser or Horvat for Hanifin. That's not happening here.
Chan was clearly looking at the hypothetical from the Carolina perspective only in the same way clunk approached it from a Vancouver perspective only:
Suffice to say, there is not a natural fit between Carolina and Vancouver here. For a trade to happen, Carolina would have to prioritize value in the form of futures for whatever reason or Vancouver would have to covet Hanifin to the extent of being willing to swap out a core forward. There isn't an in-between.
When it comes to Hanifin, I see 1 of 4 scenarios being true here:
1. Hanifin is attainable because his contract doesn't fit in with Carolina's salary structure. The Canes look to sell him for the best offer.
2. Hanifin is attainable because the organization is bearish on his future and is looking to cash-out now, while he has good value. The Canes look to sell him for the best offer.
3. Hanifin is attainable because the organization thinks it's the right time to make a trade for a forward, in part motivated by the need to replace Skinner, who appears headed for a departure. The Canes only sell if the right forward is attainable.
4. Hanifin is available, but not really attainable. In this scenario, the insiders have run with the Carolina story because they perceive Dundon to be unconventional and to be fair, he has portrayed himself as that. Hanifin is a notable name that is exciting to talk about. The story is different behind the scenes when teams actually call about him. The Canes prefer to keep him and only sell if the offer is of overwhelming value.
Other less likely scenarios include a trade request (no basis to speculate here) and 2016 Edmonton-like desperation, this time for a forward (why trade Skinner in this case?)
Until further information is provided, I think you operate under the assumption that it's 4, maybe 3. The Canucks are only players if it's 1 or 2, imo.
1. Hanifin is attainable because his contract doesn't fit in with Carolina's salary structure. The Canes look to sell him for the best offer.
2. Hanifin is attainable because the organization is bearish on his future and is looking to cash-out now, while he has good value. The Canes look to sell him for the best offer.
3. Hanifin is attainable because the organization thinks it's the right time to make a trade for a forward, in part motivated by the need to replace Skinner, who appears headed for a departure. The Canes only sell if the right forward is attainable.
4. Hanifin is available, but not really attainable. In this scenario, the insiders have run with the Carolina story because they perceive Dundon to be unconventional and to be fair, he has portrayed himself as that. Hanifin is a notable name that is exciting to talk about. The story is different behind the scenes when teams actually call about him. The Canes prefer to keep him and only sell if the offer is of overwhelming value.
Other less likely scenarios include a trade request (no basis to speculate here) and 2016 Edmonton-like desperation, this time for a forward (why trade Skinner in this case?)
Until further information is provided, I think you operate under the assumption that it's 4, maybe 3. The Canucks are only players if it's 1 or 2, imo.
biturbo19
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- Jul 13, 2010
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Yeah. It's perfectly obvious why Vancouver would be poking around investigating what it might cost to get a guy like Hanifin. They're in fairly dire need of high-end young defencemen for the future.
The question is...what exactly could they package to get him, without including core guys like Horvat/Boeser/Pettersson? Juolevi wouldn't make any sense for either team. Everything else on the roster or in the pool, you're basically just trying to cobble together a quantity for quality deal, which i'd be okay with from a Vancouver perspective...but hardly seems enticing to the Canes.
Unless it's the 7th pick. Which...ehhh...i really don't think a defensively questionable 2nd-ish pairing guy is what you move that pick for. Not with what could be on the board. Especially not coming off his ELC, where he's going to command quite a bit of $$$ for his 30pt resume combined with high pick pedigree and "upside". Maybe if both of Dobson and Bouchard are off the board at 7, you start looking at it a bit more seriously? A more sheltered point-producer is probably more of what you're looking at with guys like Hughes/Boqvist anyway. But if that's the way the board falls, there's probably going to be a very good forward there at 7 that the Canucks could also very much use in their pipeline.
To me, when it was "announced" that the Canes were open to moving pretty much anybody but Aho...i thought it'd make a lot of sense for the Canucks to be poking around on a guy like Haydn Fleury. A potentially "cheaper" option that might fall more in line value-wise, with the sort of assets the Canucks could actually afford to part with.
Trying to assemble a pitch for Hanifin seems like playing at too rich a table for where the Canucks are at in their rebuild imo. And for a player that i'm not convinced is going to be a truly "core" piece that really anchors part of a blueline. It's like going after a guy like Dougie Hamilton. Fine player, produces points. But still more of a sort of peripheral/supporting piece on a contending blueline.
biturbo19
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Yeah. I'd agree with this in general. I think #1 is an interesting and potentially important point that really could be at play here though. Hanifin is a really tricky contract to get figured out. Especially on a team that has already extended their two studs (Slavin, Pesce) to set their structure there, with some other good young blueliners on the cusp behind him. Hanifin is a guy who produces points, which tends to get players paid more than anything else. He's also got that high pick pedigree that tends to ramp up the price on guys. But you still don't really know exactly what you're getting with Hanifin long-term. Whether he's going to develop more in his ability to handle tougher minutes, or if he's going to continue to be more of a sheltered minutes guy.
If you bridge him, you're probably still going to end up paying for those at least 30pts+ at the end anyway. With even less leverage. Meaning it could be all downhill from here on his "value" if he establishes over the next year or two that his defensive game isn't going to mature a whole lot more. Now would be the time to unload him in that case - high point of his potential value.
But extending him long-term right now...it's darts in the dark. He's going to want to be paid for that "untapped potential". But you run the real risk of paying bigtime for something you'll never get, at any sort of annual $$$ figure that's going to make Hanifin happy.
You can just see an awkward contract/development situation setting up all around. Which could impact his "value" as a trade chip. But to where a team like Vancouver might be able to make a more competitive trade pitch, and could probably afford to risk "overpaying" him contract-wise to get some talent on the blueline.
JuniorNelson
Registered User
Canucks seem intent on playing Demko next season. This leads people to question the defense. I suspect the management is optimistic about their D squad, though. I don't think they are scouring the league. They might (probably) stand pat on D and limp along next season.
We actually agree then. I don't see Vancouver tearing a hole in their rebuild to add Hanifin by moving what Carolina would be looking for: someone else's elite, young, NHL-proven foundational asset.
I doubt there's any interest in #7 or #7+...it's the wrong timeframe for a team looking to jump to competitive now.
Scintillating10
Registered User
You
Are you guys signing Elynuik? A 6'5 center point a game. He has a chance.
You guys need a goalie first. Don't matter how much skill you add with no goalie, going no where.
Are you guys signing Elynuik? A 6'5 center point a game. He has a chance.
Canes
Registered User
listen, DW will offer McGinn + 2019 1st rounder for Boeser and the Canucks will accept it wether they like it or not.
RodTheBawd
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- Oct 16, 2013
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One has nothing to do with the other (not to mention you're full of shit with "most cane fan"). You don't trade for a 21yo D-man for what he is at 21, nor is his value based on what he is at 21. You trade for him and value him based on upside, which is immense for a player like Hanifin. Once he reaches that potential, you have no shot of pulling him for a ROR. That's what you, and many on HFB, don't get. The risk is borne on the acquiring team in these scenarios. Or you trade for a similarly aged forward with a lot of upside.
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
I agree that I don't really see the fit here, unless Vancouver decides they'll move Demko, but I think you're kind of off base talking about the 'Carolina perspective' here. You're ownership just fired the guy that built up Carolina's current depth and hired Don Waddell of all people, and now apparently they're looking for a major shake up.
So welcome to the world Canucks fans have been living in the last few years. There's what your team should do on one hand, and then on the other the unpredictably of what your idiot GM may actually do. Maybe that's a little premature for Waddell but this is the guy that ran the Atlanta Thrashers to 1 playoff round in like 11 years.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Heard a couple of weeks ago he wanted to re-enter the draft. We have pretty good prospect depth finally and he’s stuck behind a lot of guys. Would like to sign him but I don’t blame him.
In addition to entering next season with a new GM and HC, the Canes will likely be without Skinner, who they appear poised to trade, and Ward, as they seem committed to giving Darling another shot and have said that they can’t bring back the same goalie tandem. Rask and Faulk are legit trade candidates as well.
That’s a significant turnover right there. How much further do you expect they go?
As far as Waddell goes, I encourage you to check out his trade history as GM:
History of hockey trades by general manager Don Waddell - NHL Trade Tracker
The guy has a reputation for being a bad trader, but it’s really just one WTF deal among an otherwise average record. Atlanta failed because it drafted poorly outside of the obvious picks. The inability to build depth outside of the 1st round was particularly damaging to a franchise that came into the league with nothing. When it came time to resign Hossa and Kovalchuk, Waddell didn’t have the talent to point to convince them to stay. Ultimately, he is responsible for that. Fortunately, he said that he wouldn’t be on the road as much this time around and complemented Carolina’s current scouts that have done a very good job of finding talent outside of the obvious picks (Faulk, Andersen, Rask, Slavin, Pesce, Aho.) There’s reason to not be worried about history repeating itself in that regard.
tldr I’m not worried about anything crazy until it happens.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Captain Bowie
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- Jan 18, 2012
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Late to the party I know. The deal was presented to me by local radio over the weekend as Baertschi + 7th. I would definitely do that, and would even add a little more to sweeten the deal. I really like Hanifin and think he could help turn this team around in a major way.
Don't know how much more Canes fans would want, but I would be willing to look at anyone outside the core of Bo, Eli, Brock, & Demko.
Don't know how much more Canes fans would want, but I would be willing to look at anyone outside the core of Bo, Eli, Brock, & Demko.
Why do Canucks fans think Tanev is worth 10th OA? Lol, in that trade we better be the ones ending with Hanifim or were not chipping in 2 good picks for an older, injury prone Larsson.
Very likely "No" on both Baertchi and #7 for the Canes with the inclusion of one of your named "core" as a centerpiece.
Cardiac Jerks
Asinine & immoral
Virtanen is not even remotely an interesting piece or a need for us.
Don’t see why Hanifin would be traded for futures (7th overall) either when he’s young enough to be the future himself.
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