Post-Game Talk: “Okay campers, rise, and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cold out there…“

[vodeni]

this notion that Avs are much better I don't know man, we had more shots, more chances, more high danger chances...our goalie is back to below .700 in HD saves, tonight 3 of 6...our defense is just weak, super weak, and we have 3-4 forwards that play out of position and some of them should not be in the line up
We can play against Avs, but against Rangers will be different

the other thing is other than GCR none of other lines seem that they ever seen each other, they are laughable the way they enter the zone, either totally spread out or bumping at each other...

 

[ChaosAgent]

this notion that Avs are much better I don't know man, we had more shots, more chances, more high danger chances...our goalie is back to below .700 in HD saves, tonight 3 of 6...our defense is just weak, super weak, and we have 3-4 forwards that play out of position and some of them should not be in the line up
We can play against Avs, but against Rangers will be different

the other thing is other than GCR none of other lines seem that they ever seen each other, they are laughable the way they enter the zone, either totally spread out or bumping at each other...

Their goalie was awful too.

Make no mistake they are better.

 

[metalan2]

45 shots! What a performance. We got to our game and the shit tally shows it. Go Sully.

 

[ncm7772]

Yes, the Pens are playing poorly lately. It sucks.

But I always chuckle in the post-game threads when people go on these diatribes acting like they really thought this team was a contender, only to be shocked when they’re not. People - chill.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

this notion that Avs are much better I don't know man, we had more shots, more chances, more high danger chances...our goalie is back to below .700 in HD saves, tonight 3 of 6...our defense is just weak, super weak, and we have 3-4 forwards that play out of position and some of them should not be in the line up
We can play against Avs, but against Rangers will be different

the other thing is other than GCR none of other lines seem that they ever seen each other, they are laughable the way they enter the zone, either totally spread out or bumping at each other...

The Avs aren't much better. They are better, but they aren't a class above us. 3/4 of the team gets jerked around every game to keep one line together. No one has any consistency but L1. It's not a surprise they don't have chemistry. If I were the front office I'd be pissed that my deadline acquisition is playing opposite 37 year old Carter but that's just me

 

[Gurglesons]

Matheson plays desperate I'd say.

But yeah you're right. I'd like to see some call-ups which have everything to play for.

Yeah Matheson and Boyle are the two that come to mind.

 

[vodeni]

Their goalie was awful too.

Make no mistake they are better.

They are better cause and I think you said that, their L1 is much better and more efficient than our L1 the other is all wash, unfortunately we lost that second punch from the past when we could roll out 2nd or 3rd line that can score

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Pens are just a Tier 2 team now. Nothing wrong with that, expectations just need to be updated accordingly.

Not really, they were a tier 2 team all season. We were just hopeful that could change with TDL additions and that's now past. They simply needed more.

 

[Tender Rip]

Riddle me this btw.... Not that Angello has been a problem in these two games, he has played so little that you can't blame him for anything... but a guy who has not played before this season.... you put in him there two times against the leading team in the league; the fastest team in the league, at a time where you also elect to move Blueger up, so it is Boyle centering the line with recently demoted Heinen.

How is that putting anyone in a position to succeed? With a line that clearly won't be able to skate with the opponent and doesn't have individual skill with the puck... what might the thinking be there? I mean, if you wanted someone from WBS, maybe you choose Bellerive for some hustle and antagonism. Or you give spot time to Puus in the hope he can snipe one. Or you just go with a guy who has already shown he belongs in Zohorna... or a guy who started up and had been looking very good again in WBS in DOC.

Its a small thing compared to the self-immolation of the L2 choices after Malkin and Carter had clearly shown against good teams earlier that it was not going to be a good idea. But I cannot help keying in on it anyway, because it seems so stupid and so without any hope of having a positive impact. Just don't get it.

 

[ncm7772]

I hope this play/coaching is just that the team doesn’t care because they’re in the playoffs and they don’t want to give away too much strategy lol…on the other hand, this was absolute shit coaching and Sullivan should be embarrassed…not just the lines but he had last change and he matched up nothing! I mean MacKinnon on L4, Colorado had every line matchup they wanted out there…just shit coaching all around…

having said that, this team is probably worse than last year’s team…we’re basically maxed out at scoring 3 goals against good teams…that’s our ceiling…we’re going nowhere unless Jarry puts together another Binnington type run from out of thin air…

Definitely worse than last year! But I thought last year’s team was pretty good. Certainly better than ‘19 and ‘20.

And yes - the team’s only chance is Jarry having a God Mode cheat code.

Pens are a decent team, but nowhere a contender. I think more people are finally starting to see that, well, they’re not that good.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Riddle me this btw.... Not that Angello has been a problem in these two games, he has played so little that you can't blame him for anything... but a guy who has not played before this season.... you put in him there two times against the leading team in the league; the fastest team in the league, at a time where you also elect to move Blueger up, so it is Boyle centering the line, with recently demoted Heinen.

How is that putting anyone in a position to succeed? With a line that clearly won't be able to skate with the opponent and doesn't have individual skill with the puck... what might the thinking be there? I mean, if you wanted someone from WBS, maybe you choose Bellerive for some hustle and antagonism. Or you give spot time to Puus in the hope he can snipe one. Or you just go with a guy who has already shown he belongs in Zohorna... or a guy who started up and had been looking very good again in WBS in DOC.

Its a small thing compared to the self-immolation of the L2 choices after Malkin and Carter had clearly shown against good teams earlier that it was not going to be a good idea. But I cannot help keying in on it anyway, because it seems so stupid and so without any hope of having a positive impact. Just don't get it.

Sullivan is at the point in his coaching career where he is trying to be too clever for his own good. Just roll with the best players and let them gel

 

[Andy99]

Definitely worse than last year! But I thought last year’s team was better than ‘19 and ‘20.

And yes - the team’s only chance is Jarry having a God Mode cheat code.

Pens are a decent team, but nowhere a contender. I think more people are finally starting to see that, well, they’re not that good.

This Pens team doesn't match up well with anyone going into the playoffs. They are the easiest out for any playoff team, as we have no depth and it is easy as hell to shut down L1…every PO team is hoping they get to play the Pens lol…

 

[vodeni]

Yes, the Pens are playing poorly lately. It sucks.

But I always chuckle in the post-game threads when people go on these diatribes acting like they really thought this team was a contender, only to be shocked when they’re not. People - chill.

well I guess I am that person, I really thought that they have a shot..I thought that our players are better than they really are,

 

[ChaosAgent]

They are better cause and I think you said that, their L1 is much better and more efficient than our L1 the other is all wash, unfortunately we lost that second punch from the past when we could roll out 2nd or 3rd line that can score

Yes, elite skill at runaway freight train speed trumps elite skill combined with otherwordly hockey sense unfortunately. It is what it is. Sid was once the runaway freight train, in his day.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Matheson plays desperate I'd say.

But yeah you're right. I'd like to see some call-ups which have everything to play for.

Yes, this would be a great time to try this because, you're still giving up more goals, what could it hurt to infuse Puus, Nylander or O'Connor over a Angello or Zohorna. Get some legs in there.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Geno just zooms around defensively freelancing and letting his point man walk to the dot. Because he's gone for a skate behind him. Maybe it's better that he just glides around because his stop/start is so terrible.

He can accomplish defensive things (win battles, steal the puck) but overall he's a hot mess in his own zone. Fans see the cool defensive stuff and think he's playing better defense in totality - he isn't.

I do think Geno is lost without Rust to be the main offensive driver. Geno needs someone at or above his level. I had some hopes for Carter but he ain't it. Zuck may help with the line's footspeed issue at least.

Malkin doesn't need Rust to be "the driver", he simply needs as much as Crosby needs: a high-end scoring winger to be his go-to guy. Malkin has none, Crosby has two.

Anyone wanna bet how long it would take for Crosby to look like shit if he was with Carter and Rakell, or how long it would take for Malkin to look fantastic with Guentzel and Rust?

This is so blatantly obvious.

 

[Andy99]

not ready for prime time…I suspect we’ll add two more to the loss column after Thursday and Saturday’s games…

 

[ChaosAgent]

Malkin doesn't need Rust to be "the driver", he simply needs as much as Crosby needs: a high-end scoring winger to be his go-to guy. Malkin has none, Crosby has two.

Anyone wanna bet how long it would take for Crosby to look like shit if he was with Carter and Rakell, or how long it would take for Malkin to look fantastic with Guentzel and Rust?

Nah, Malkin needs a space-maker which is what Rust is. Someone to occupy and draw the defense away to let him play in space more.

We won't see Crosby with Carter & Rakell, so your "bet" is pointless.

 

[Jacob]

I was thinking about that scene in Moneyball where he said they had to become card-counters to be competitive and I think in some ways that’s where the Pens are at. And I don’t mean they need to go full analytics or strip payroll or go Lemaire-Wild trap or anything, I just think we need other aspects to level the playing field against teams that are just plain better and more talented than us. We can’t just look Colorado in the eye and just roll 4 lines for 60 and try to win playing straight-forward hockey. We need to line match, trap, agitate, instigate, cheat. It doesn’t have to be the total game plan all night long but it’s just about eliminating the number of effective 5-on-5 shifts that line can have from 12 to maybe like 8 you’re vastly improving your chances of winning. There’s like 3-4 teams we just cannot go tit-for-tat against and we need to be a lot more creative, but I also don’t know if we have the roster to be affective at it. We have like 1 shut down D, not 1 pairing, 1 guy. No agitators. No real checking line. We can’t trap or make system adjustments on the fly. We don’t line match. When better players beat us we just tip our hats to them. Dumb.

 

[Coastal Kev]

not ready for prime time…I suspect we’ll add two more to the loss column after Thursday and Saturday’s games

Who could have ever predicted another end of season dud ending?? "anyone saying they saw it coming is just offering hindsight"

 

[StaalForOne]

I feel like Jarry has just been treading water. Not great, not bad. That might have cut it against the Isles last year, but I think they’re going to need more from him than what they’ve been getting lately.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Nah, Malkin needs a space-maker which is what Rust is. Someone to occupy and draw the defense away to let him play in space more.

We won't see Crosby with Carter & Rakell, so your "bet" is pointless.

So...someone good enough to warrant that kind of attention from the opposition. Which both of his current wingers aren't, and both Crosby's are.

However you want to parse the needs, it's obvious that Malkin is a completely different player when he has the same calibre of support that Crosby has. Sullivan needs to acknowledge this if we want to even get out of the 1st round this year.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I was thinking about that scene in Moneyball where he said they had to become card-counters to be competitive and I think in some ways that’s where the Pens are at. And I don’t mean they need to go full analytics or strip payroll or go Lemaire-Wild trap or anything, I just think we need other aspects to level the playing field against teams that are just plain better and more talented than us. We can’t just look Colorado in the eye and just roll 4 lines for 60 and try to win playing straight-forward hockey. We need to line match, trap, agitate, instigate, cheat. It doesn’t have to be the total game plan all night long but it’s just about eliminating the number of effective 5-on-5 shifts that line can have from 12 to maybe like 8 you’re vastly improving your chances of winning. There’s like 3-4 teams we just cannot go tit-for-tat against and we need to be a lot more creative, but I also don’t know if we have the roster to be affective at it. We have like 1 shut down D, not 1 pairing, 1 guy. No agitators. No real checking line. We can’t trap or make system adjustments on the fly. We don’t line match. When better players beat us we just tip our hats to them. Dumb.

No offence Jacob, but hasn't this been my mantra all season? The Pens can only play one way and they're no longer near the fastest or most skilled to play that style.

I'll leave now

 

[Ugene Magic]

I was thinking about that scene in Moneyball where he said they had to become card-counters to be competitive and I think in some ways that’s where the Pens are at. And I don’t mean they need to go full analytics or strip payroll or go Lemaire-Wild trap or anything, I just think we need other aspects to level the playing field against teams that are just plain better and more talented than us. We can’t just look Colorado in the eye and just roll 4 lines for 60 and try to win playing straight-forward hockey. We need to line match, trap, agitate, instigate, cheat. It doesn’t have to be the total game plan all night long but it’s just about eliminating the number of effective 5-on-5 shifts that line can have from 12 to maybe like 8 you’re vastly improving your chances of winning. There’s like 3-4 teams we just cannot go tit-for-tat against and we need to be a lot more creative, but I also don’t know if we have the roster to be affective at it. We have like 1 shut down D, not 1 pairing, 1 guy. No agitators. No real checking line. We can’t trap or make system adjustments on the fly. We don’t line match. When better players beat us we just tip our hats to them. Dumb.

Unfortunately, this team isn't rolling a 4th line.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I was thinking about that scene in Moneyball where he said they had to become card-counters to be competitive and I think in some ways that’s where the Pens are at. And I don’t mean they need to go full analytics or strip payroll or go Lemaire-Wild trap or anything, I just think we need other aspects to level the playing field against teams that are just plain better and more talented than us. We can’t just look Colorado in the eye and just roll 4 lines for 60 and try to win playing straight-forward hockey. We need to line match, trap, agitate, instigate, cheat. It doesn’t have to be the total game plan all night long but it’s just about eliminating the number of effective 5-on-5 shifts that line can have from 12 to maybe like 8 you’re vastly improving your chances of winning. There’s like 3-4 teams we just cannot go tit-for-tat against and we need to be a lot more creative, but I also don’t know if we have the roster to be affective at it. We have like 1 shut down D, not 1 pairing, 1 guy. No agitators. No real checking line. We can’t trap or make system adjustments on the fly. We don’t line match. When better players beat us we just tip our hats to them. Dumb.

I definitely remember thinking we'd face Boston last year, and dreading Sullivan matching up GCR against March & Bergeron.

So I did get to thinking about a maximally irritating matchup line for March & Bergeron to keep Crosby away.

Maybe something similar would be warranted in this case. A matchup-irritant line.

Zucker-Blueger-Carter?