Post-Game Talk: “Okay campers, rise, and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cold out there…“

[ronduguayshair]

I'm not going to enjoy the remaining years as much when there are likely better lineups that haven't been used and other options that haven't been tried, and when we keep going back to the same stale combo that hasn't worked in three years. How am I supposed to just sit back and enjoy that? Am I saying we're going to win the Cup with different lines? Yeah, no. But isn't it better to go out with everything you've got having tried everything to see what is truly best? It feels like we're quietly shutting the door on this era, going out into the good night meekly, from a tactics and lineup standpoint. That doesn't sit well with me. Yes I'm going to enjoy watching this core and this team as they close out their careers, but if there's no pressure for this coach to make better decisions what's the point of a front office? They realize he's won one series in four years right?

So you you’re upset that the front office hasn’t fired Sullivan yet after we won the division? Who are they hiring?

Could it be possible the players are a bigger issue? Maybe the core needs rebooted.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

So you you’re upset that the front office hasn’t fired Sullivan yet after we won the division? Who are they hiring?

Could it be possible the players are a bigger issue? Maybe the core needs rebooted.

I never said I wanted him fired now. I said there's no pressure on him to make better decisions, and he should be fired if we lose in the first round for the fourth year in a row. The players are not a bigger issue or at least not by much other than the core getting older and some of our players like Kapanen under performing so far. If they want to reboot the core then fine, do it. But they didn't and they have two superstars here. Don't put bullshit lines together that cater to one of them at the expense of the team.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I never said I wanted him fired now. I said there's no pressure on him to make better decisions, and he should be fired if we lose in the first round for the fourth year in a row. The players are not a bigger issue or at least not by much other than the core getting older and some of our players like Kapanen under performing so far. If they want to reboot the core then fine, do it. But they didn't and they have two superstars here. Don't put bullshit lines together that cater to one of them at the expense of the team.

So you think the front office should put pressure on the coach for not placating Geno.

Hey why hasn’t that same front office resigned #71 yet? One has to wonder.

 

[ronduguayshair]

#71 is no longer a superstar. That’s obvious. 5 on 5 black hole. Power play specialist.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

So you think the front office should put pressure on the coach for not placating Geno.

Hey why hasn’t that same front office resigned #71 yet? One has to wonder.

You should read more carefully. Bye now for real.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sullivan's steady hand is why the management team likes him. It frustrates fans because they want to see change.

Change the lines. Change the pairings. Change the system. That didn't work? Change the coach.

The reality is a team's success largely comes down to the players. Yes, Sullivan came in during the 2015-16 season and changed the mindset, but his critics gloss over how much the roster changed mid-year, too. Hagelin, Schultz and Daley came in from outside after Sullivan was promoted. Rust had made appearances but was promoted for good after Sullivan came on board. Sheary and Kuhnhackl were promoted after Sullivan arrived.

All six players were fixtures in the playoff lineup. They were the right fit for the team.

The same thing happened the next year - the Penguins had the ability to add a veteran stabilizing force in Ron Hainsey and critical offensive support by promoting Jake Guentzel.

What the Penguins need now cannot be fixed internally. They're still good. They're still competitive. But to be elite, they need to adjust the make-up of the team and that is going to take time because of the cap. This notion that they could make one or two trades and be fixed is ludicrous. The prospects aren't good enough to do what Rust, Sheary, and Guentzel did.

The presence of Radim Zohorna or Valtteri Puustinen will not drastically change this team's fortunes. Neither will playing Rust with Malkin and Zucker with Crosby. The issues are a lot deeper than that.

Just enjoy the fact that they'll be playing in the playoffs and that weird stuff can happen in the postseason.

I usually like your takes. But this is absolute bullshit.

We’ve seen it happen time and time again where a squad making minor changes ends up with different success under a different voice.

 

[eXile3]

#71 is no longer a superstar. That’s obvious. 5 on 5 black hole. Power play specialist.

He's an over PPG center. There's maybe 20 of those in the league? Easily replaceable.

Anyways, it's confirmed, we're not better than the Avalanche. They are stacked.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I usually like your takes. But this is absolute bullshit.

We’ve seen it happen time and time again where a squad making minor changes ends up with different success under a different voice.

I'm genuinely curious what you think is a case of minor changes coupled with a new voice leading to success.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm genuinely curious what you think is a case of minor changes coupled with a new voice leading to success.

St Louis Blues 2019.
Dallas Stars 2020.
Montreal Canadiens 2021.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's an over PPG center. There's maybe 20 of those in the league? Easily replaceable.

Anyways, it's confirmed, we're not better than the Avalanche. They are stacked.

They weren't stacked when we played them. That team was missing Kadri, Landeskog, and Girard - 3 key pieces.

Those were winnable games that Sullivan decided to play with his 2nd best player neutered.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

St Louis Blues 2019.
Dallas Stars 2020.
Montreal Canadiens 2021.

I'd say the introduction of Jordan Binnington had a lot to do with St. Louis in 2019, wouldn't you? He'd played all of three NHL games in his career prior to January 2019. Then he takes off like a rocket.

Some key cogs were also new to the franchise that year: Ryan O"Reilly, David Perron, Tyler Bozak, and Patrick Maroon all joined the team in the offseason. Yeo was fired a quarter of the way into the season, so it's not like that group had a long time to gel.

That plus Binnington is a big change.

Dallas doesn't count. They were actually playing well when Jim Montgomery got canned on December 10. Montgomery wasn't dismissed for performance, but because of his drinking problem. And Rick Bowness was a longtime assistant on that team.

I'm not buying Montreal. Not with the way the league was structured. They came out of a ridiculous weak division and then rode a hot goalie. Plus, Julien was 9-5-4 when he was fired and Ducharme finished 15-16-7. That's a fluke, not a fix.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd say the introduction of Jordan Binnington had a lot to do with St. Louis in 2019, wouldn't you? He'd played all of three NHL games in his career prior to January 2019. Then he takes off like a rocket.

Some key cogs were also new to the franchise that year: Ryan O"Reilly, David Perron, Tyler Bozak, and Patrick Maroon all joined the team in the offseason. Yeo was fired a quarter of the way into the season, so it's not like that group had a long time to gel.

That plus Binnington is a big change.

Dallas doesn't count. They were actually playing well when Jim Montgomery got canned on December 10. Montgomery wasn't dismissed for performance, but because of his drinking problem. And Rick Bowness was a longtime assistant on that team.

I'm not buying Montreal. Not with the way the league was structured. They came out of a ridiculous weak division and then rode a hot goalie. Plus, Julien was 9-5-4 when he was fired and Ducharme finished 15-16-7. That's a fluke, not a fix.

Lol okay. You asked for examples. I gave them and now you are finding other reasons for success. Maybe this team has been successful under Sullivan because of Crosby and Malkin and not Sullivan.

How many games has Sullivan won without both Crosby or Malkin in the line up?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The players matter way more than the coach, and ours are too old to be cup winners.

In an effort to get additional impact we sunk a bunch of 1sts and prospects into some wingers who kinda help but not really. We carry three expensive LD for some reason. Our goalie can run very very hot but he isn't right now.

Are they though? Or is there a mix of youth that could be used to push more out of this lineup? It looks like Sullivan uses the lineup to make it harder on the vets all around than actually pushing a mix of vets vs next wave.

Carter gets over played
Boyle gets over played
Geno gets shafted with his wingers
Kapanen is a good lad but he's been beaten down for confidence
Heinen and Rodrigues get opportunities that recently they haven't deserved

Youth get called up for 4th line duty.

Imagine being Hallander being called up to sit and all blokes would say is hurr durr he got nhl salary for a few days!!

Would it hurt this team to try Puustinen with the top 6 to inject so life? Poulin recently? Maybe the split of the top line is something Sully should have explored early in the season. But he's shot himself in the foot with that usage too because now that's all he has.

While I like Brock, he's also exclusively been used in the bottom 6 with Blueger so really in the top 6 you're missing Zucker and a proper way to utilize Kapanen. Crosby is apparently so good defensively that he needs more defensive wingers, but Malkin can't get any sort of talent that works with him because he should do what Sid can't and make a star out of Heinen or council Kapanen into being better given his issue is 100% mental.

I said this so many times - how many players do we need to lose before the coach is finally gone and we see a new coach that utilizes the line up and affiliate better than our current coach, like our current coach did in his first 2 years.

That last bit - seems to be a trend. Bylsma 2008-2010 was using more youth than he did later on. Sullivan used a lot more 2015-2017 than he has in favourable ways the last 4-5.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'd say the introduction of Jordan Binnington had a lot to do with St. Louis in 2019, wouldn't you? He'd played all of three NHL games in his career prior to January 2019. Then he takes off like a rocket.

Some key cogs were also new to the franchise that year: Ryan O"Reilly, David Perron, Tyler Bozak, and Patrick Maroon all joined the team in the offseason. Yeo was fired a quarter of the way into the season, so it's not like that group had a long time to gel.

That plus Binnington is a big change.

Dallas doesn't count. They were actually playing well when Jim Montgomery got canned on December 10. Montgomery wasn't dismissed for performance, but because of his drinking problem. And Rick Bowness was a longtime assistant on that team.

I'm not buying Montreal. Not with the way the league was structured. They came out of a ridiculous weak division and then rode a hot goalie. Plus, Julien was 9-5-4 when he was fired and Ducharme finished 15-16-7. That's a fluke, not a fix.

I hope Casey goes to the blues next year so I can tell bad jokes like..


"A racist goalie and a goalie that assaulted a woman walk into a bar..."

 

[Gurglesons]

Are they though? Or is there a mix of youth that could be used to push more out of this lineup? It looks like Sullivan uses the lineup to make it harder on the vets all around than actually pushing a mix of vets vs next wave.

Carter gets over played
Boyle gets over played
Geno gets shafted with his wingers
Kapanen is a good lad but he's been beaten down for confidence
Heinen and Rodrigues get opportunities that recently they haven't deserved

Youth get called up for 4th line duty.

Imagine being Hallander being called up to sit and all blokes would say is hurr durr he got nhl salary for a few days!!

Would it hurt this team to try Puustinen with the top 6 to inject so life? Poulin recently? Maybe the split of the top line is something Sully should have explored early in the season. But he's shot himself in the foot with that usage too because now that's all he has.

While I like Brock, he's also exclusively been used in the bottom 6 with Blueger so really in the top 6 you're missing Zucker and a proper way to utilize Kapanen. Crosby is apparently so good defensively that he needs more defensive wingers, but Malkin can't get any sort of talent that works with him because he should do what Sid can't and make a star out of Heinen or council Kapanen into being better given his issue is 100% mental.

I said this so many times - how many players do we need to lose before the coach is finally gone and we see a new coach that utilizes the line up and affiliate better than our current coach, like our current coach did in his first 2 years.

That last bit - seems to be a trend. Bylsma 2008-2010 was using more youth than he did later on. Sullivan used a lot more 2015-2017 than he has in favourable ways the last 4-5.

Sullivan’s issue isn’t even just youth. It’s just general creativity with the roster.

He used to be really good about balancing out lines and d pairings. Now he just sticks with what he thinks works and then gives Friedman a game or two when we lose or swaps up Rodrigues on L1 for Rust.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I hope Casey goes to the blues next year so I can tell bad jokes like..


"A racist goalie and a goalie that assaulted a woman walk into a bar..."

You definitely won't have to worry about DeSmith being a Penguin next year.

If Jarry is solid to excellent in the playoffs, he's the No. 1 and they go real cheap with a back-up (like league minimum cheap, maybe even Domingue).

If Jarry implodes again, everyone's gone in exchange for as much cap space as possible and they rebuild the goaltending.

Someone, probably a team like Buffalo or Arizona, will give DeSmith a 2-3 year deal to split duties.

 

[Mrs Crosby's Dryer]

I’ve always believed that we won those cups in spite of idiot Sullivan, not because of him.

If we have yet another first round exit, I can’t see a single reason on why he should be here next season. We can’t waste these twilight years for Sid/Geno/Letang anymore than we already have.

Sign our big 3 FA’s, cut the dead weight off of the roster and give some young and hungry players a chance, and bring in a new voice and methodology behind the bench who can actually coach adaptively.

This core, if the team around them is utilized properly, has another Cup in them.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I’ve always believed that we won those cups in spite of idiot Sullivan, not because of him.

If we have yet another first round exit, I can’t see a single reason on why he should be here next season. We can’t waste these twilight years for Sid/Geno/Letang anymore than we already have.

Sign our big 3 FA’s, cut the dead weight off of the roster and give some young and hungry players a chance, and bring in a new voice and methodology behind the bench who can actually coach adaptively.

This core, if the team around them is utilized properly, has another Cup in them.

What an ignorant out of touch post. Worst of this thread.

 

[ronduguayshair]

He's an over PPG center. There's maybe 20 of those in the league? Easily replaceable.

Anyways, it's confirmed, we're not better than the Avalanche. They are stacked.

Ppg even strength?

-5 player worst on the team.

He hurts more than he helps 5 on 5. Walk away from that next contract.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ppg even strength?

-5 player worst on the team.

He hurts more than he helps 5 on 5. Walk away from that next contract.

Worst goaltending percentage of his career when he is on the ice this year.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sullivan’s issue isn’t even just youth. It’s just general creativity with the roster.

He used to be really good about balancing out lines and d pairings. Now he just sticks with what he thinks works and then gives Friedman a game or two when we lose or swaps up Rodrigues on L1 for Rust.

General creativity is an issue and I've touched on that enough. But using even the young players he has used in creative ways has been the issue. Doc showed a lot when he was with more talented players and was a driving force in production. But then Sullivan would throw him back with Boyle and destroy that momentum, meanwhile Heinen and Rodrigues go limp for 20+ games and are kept in the top 6. There's no f***ing rationale or actual accountability with his usage.

 

[Angrrus]

Stupid effing losers.

TJ is a piece of excrement and he will melt down in a heartbeat again when they get to playoffs.

 

[madinsomniac]

A. Sully is a good coach but coaching shelf lives in the nhl are almost always expired after 5 years.
B. Its not a coincidence that both of our miracle turn around seasons came under coaches promoted from the AHL that already knew and trusted the young guys they had in the ahl themselves to real roles on the big club when they came up… young player contributors are key to making cup runs especially in a salary cap era… old coaches take guys like Zahorna and minimize their contributions in order to placate mediocre vets… how much could we have saved against the cap had we just used him in ZARs role this year? Almost a million bucks?

 

[ronduguayshair]

Worst goaltending percentage of his career when he is on the ice this year.

Ridiculous excuse mongering. It’s always someone else’s fault with the keyboard experts.


If I was worried about bad goaltending I wouldn’t turnover the puck and back check.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

How many games has Sullivan won without both Crosby or Malkin in the line up?

The Penguins were 5-3-4 this season without both of them in the lineup. Other players were missing during this time as well.

The Penguins won both of their games during the 2019-20 season without both of them in the lineup.

So since the start of the 2019-20 season, the Penguins are 7-3-4 without both Crosby and Malkin in the lineup.