zzz Habs lose 1-0

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PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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Only thing I ever heard Hitchcock say is that with Price in nets, teams feel they're already down 1-0 at the start of the game.

And in all honesty, all I hear from Julien after a loss to Montreal are excuses.

I'm not saying they never gave credit to the Habs after a loss. I don't exactly recall it. I do recall Vigneault saying how Montreal gave a lesson in hockey to the Rangers twice last year.

But Michel has given credit to other teams for playing better and winning the game. He's not above that at all. He's done it numerous times.

Ok . You are likely right.

This turned into a bigger discussion that i would have anticipated. Anyhow , I still agree with the poster who voiced he is tired of the "no puck luck" that comes from Therrien too often after losses. In two languages. ( ; Must be tough for some guys to do a presser after every game , but still.....get some new material. :D
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
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The thing is that Detroit wasn't any better than us in that game. The game was there for us to win it...

We didn't lost that game because Detroit was playing some kind of amazing hockey , we lost because the boys didn't show up and were flat and tired as hell.

We lost because we did not play the game we needed to play to win. Wings played like crap. Specially considering they were playing at home. But they played the game they had to play to win against a better team.

With Price in net we have a lot more chances to win games where the shots are mid to high 30ies-30ies with lot of scoring chances than low 20ies-20ies with a few scoring chances. With Price we can afford to give scoring chances as long as we get some too. But if we play a low scoring chances game then we void Price advantage and we open ourselves to a single goals deciding who wins the game.
 

LaP

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Jun 27, 2012
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Quebec City, Canada
This year, he has 6 goals and 4 assists for 10 points in 34 games. You're talking about his seasons past. I'm talking about him able to chip in this year (on pace for 13 goals and 21 points at the moment) which as I said, as a 4th liner, he can chip in.

He's always been a streaky player though. Remember the first 2 games against Ottawa in playoffs where he looked like a legit 2nd liner and then disappeared for the rest of the playoffs and was scratched against TB?

I would not be so quick to assume he'll finish the season with ~12 goals and ~20 points. Let's not forget he's basically been a 3rd line player and even 2nd line player some nights with all the injuries. When the players will return he'll be back on the 4th unless he does better than them. I would not say his production while good is good enough to beat legit top 9 players right now.
 
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PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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He's always been a streaky player though. Remember the first 2 games against Ottawa in playoffs where he looked like a legit 2nd liner and then disappeared for the rest of the playoffs and was scratched against TB?

I would not be so quick to assume he'll finish the season with ~12 goals and ~20 points. Let's not forget he's basically been a 3rd line player and even 2nd line player some nights with all the injuries. When the players will return he'll be back on the 4th unless he does better than then. I would not say his production while good is good enough to beat legit top 9 players right now.

Agreed. If a team is counting on Flynn in the play offs......that team lacks depth up front. Period.

If he was not on Montreal no would even know who he is let alone speak highly of him.
 

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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Agreed. If a team is counting on Flynn in the play offs......that team lacks depth up front. Period.

If he was not on Montreal no would even know who he is let alone speak highly of him.

So every team has 15-20 goal scorers on every line? 12 double digit goal scorers?

Flynn has been great depth this year. Excellent on the 4th line and stepped up when the team went through injuries and needed him.

No team will rely on Flynn, but you need 4th liners who can play and Flynn can play hockey. Knows his role, doesn't complain, plays hard and contributes. What more could you ask for from your 12th forward?
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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So every team has 15-20 goal scorers on every line? 12 double digit goal scorers?

Flynn has been great depth this year. Excellent on the 4th line and stepped up when the team went through injuries and needed him.

No team will rely on Flynn, but you need 4th liners who can play and Flynn can play hockey. Knows his role, doesn't complain, plays hard and contributes. What more could you ask for from your 12th forward?

Funny part is...the Habs are almost trending towards having 12 forwards with 10+ goals if things continue this year

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Byron, Danault, Shaw, Lehkonen, Plekanec, Gallagher, Mitchell, Flynn.

That's 11 forwards right there who have either already scored 10 goals or are on pace to surpass it.
 

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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Funny part is...the Habs are almost trending towards having 12 forwards with 10+ goals if things continue this year

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Byron, Danault, Shaw, Lehkonen, Plekanec, Gallagher, Mitchell, Flynn.

That's 11 forwards right there who have either already scored 10 goals or are on pace to surpass it.

Thats got to be up there in the NHL for team with most double digit scorers.

But lets complain about a guy like Flynn because he doesn't have 50 pts this season LOL. I hope he gets 10 goals this year. I think 4 more isn't out of the realm of possibility.
 

PaulD

Time for a new GM !
Feb 4, 2016
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Dundas
So every team has 15-20 goal scorers on every line? 12 double digit goal scorers?

Flynn has been great depth this year. Excellent on the 4th line and stepped up when the team went through injuries and needed him.

No team will rely on Flynn, but you need 4th liners who can play and Flynn can play hockey. Knows his role, doesn't complain, plays hard and contributes. What more could you ask for from your 12th forward?

I suppose.

But this team has to get better somewhere. (center, same story for 8 years plus) They are not gonna survive play off series against Jackets, Caps or Pens. Any of the other eastern teams is a toss up in a 7 game series. But you are right when you say Flynn fourth line position is not what fans will be talking about when/if they go out early. It will be the centers, coach, and lack of scoring generated by the guys whos game drops big time in spring.

I'm all about Stanley Cup or nothing.

Regular season streaks? 3 on 3 , shoot outs, bad teams as opponents, back up goaltenders, different club every night, ALL that disappears in the play offs. So you build as a hockey legend once stated..."with players that play hard in June".

In that light the Habs line up looks weak

But hey, good regular season team. "On pace for 11 possible double digit scorers".
 
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Lshap

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Jun 6, 2011
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I suppose.

But this team has to get better somewhere. (center, same story for 8 years plus) They are not gonna survive play off series against Jackets, Caps or Pens. Any of the other eastern teams is a toss up in a 7 game series. But you are right when you say Flynn fourth line position is not what fans will be talking about when/if they go out early. It will be the centers, coach, and lack of scoring generated by the guys whos game drops big time in spring.

I'm all about Stanley Cup or nothing.

Regular season streaks? 3 on 3 , shoot outs, bad teams as opponents, back up goaltenders, different club every night, ALL that disappears in the play offs. So you build as a hockey legend once stated..."with players that play hard in June".

In that light the Habs line up looks weak

But hey, good regular season team. "On pace for 11 possible double digit scorers".

Y'know, our team has had trouble scoring for so long that I'm nervous about taking my foot off the pedal, but I think we're ready to shift needs from offence to defence. I'm with you on gearing up for the playoffs, but where you see an offensive problem, I see strength. Habs have four lines of scoring depth. As we've been seeing all season, if Galchenyuk/Pacioretty/Radulov aren't producing, goals can come from Danault, Byron, Lehkonen, or Plekanec now that he's remembered how to score. We're among the top-scoring teams in the league and near the top in every offensive statistic. Even the PP is improved. I've been waiting years to say this with any conviction: Offence is no longer a problem.

My concern is defence, specifically the awful penalty-kill. Habs have given up the most PK goals in the league. There's your single-biggest weakness. If Bergevin can do his trade-deadline magic and add a solid D I believe we're in good shape for the playoffs. Add a rested Markov and a big solid Pateryn, let Weber recharge, and we could have a core of D-men capable of shutting down the best. That's priority #1 in the playoffs.
 

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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I suppose.

But this team has to get better somewhere. (center, same story for 8 years plus) They are not gonna survive play off series against Jackets, Caps or Pens. Any of the other eastern teams is a toss up in a 7 game series. But you are right when you say Flynn fourth line position is not what fans will be talking about when/if they go out early. It will be the centers, coach, and lack of scoring generated by the guys whos game drops big time in spring.

I'm all about Stanley Cup or nothing.

IMHO this is the best line up habs have had in years and best one to make a cup run. We might not match up 100% with every team but we can keep up and give any eastern team a run for its money.

Regular season streaks? 3 on 3 , shoot outs, bad teams as opponents, back up goaltenders, different club every night, ALL that disappears in the play offs. So you build as a hockey legend once stated..."with players that play hard in June".

In that light the Habs line up looks weak

But hey, good regular season team. "On pace for 11 possible double digit scorers".

I don't see a weak line up. Right now the team is missing another forward and a D but these aren't hard pieces to get at the deadline.

Either get a guy like Sharp/Jagr/Vrbata to add to the top 6 or get a 2 C.
Bottom 6 has great depth and depending on who the habs trade for we could potentially have Galley playing on the 4th line.

Bottom D is needed so get a guy like Oduya and that shores up the D line.

And habs have not just been a regular season team. Sure no cups/cup finals but they have an ECF and made the 2nd round as well. Its not easy to win playoff games and habs are top 9 since MB took over.

We all want a cup and hopefully this is the year but this roster is one of the best the habs have had. If everyone plays up to their ability and MB adds a piece or two we will be a tough challange for any team.

And you talk about the Jackets/Caps, both can be labelled chockers and have less playoff sucsess than the habs. If there are paper tigers out there its those 2 teams. The jackets have 6 playoff games in the past 4 years with 2 wins! Sometimes grass is always greener I guess.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Y'know, our team has had trouble scoring for so long that I'm nervous about taking my foot off the pedal, but I think we're ready to shift needs from offence to defence. I'm with you on gearing up for the playoffs, but where you see an offensive problem, I see strength. Habs have four lines of scoring depth. As we've been seeing all season, if Galchenyuk/Pacioretty/Radulov aren't producing, goals can come from Danault, Byron, Lehkonen, or Plekanec now that he's remembered how to score. We're among the top-scoring teams in the league and near the top in every offensive statistic. Even the PP is improved. I've been waiting years to say this with any conviction: Offence is no longer a problem.

My concern is defence, specifically the awful penalty-kill. Habs have given up the most PK goals in the league. There's your single-biggest weakness. If Bergevin can do his trade-deadline magic and add a solid D I believe we're in good shape for the playoffs. Add a rested Markov and a big solid Pateryn, let Weber recharge, and we could have a core of D-men capable of shutting down the best. That's priority #1 in the playoffs.

You know what, I'm going to argue that the horrendous PK isn't actually a defense depth weakness. In my mind, the biggest reason that the PK has cratered is as follows:

1) Price. Seriously, his recent struggles have been well documented. I'm personally thinking its fatigue, especially since he by all accounts has just been moving/reacting slower in net and has been quicker to drop to his knees. But that drop off has been most noticable on the PK. He has a shorthanded save % of .857 this year. It was perfect in the short amount of time last season, .942 the year before, and .907 the year before that. Now, obviously, there is lot of variance, and Price is not solely to blame, but as your goalie goes, so does your PK. Price can and will be better on the PK.

2) Markov. He's arguably Montreal's best PK defenceman and him being out puts pressure on Emelin and Weber that don't have the mobility to effectively deal with the cycle. Him being back will help immensely with that. It also may help the team to try Beaulieu there. He has his brainfarts, but he's been very effective in limited time on the PK this year.

3) Eller. Eller was Montreal's most effective PK forward. Without a doubt. Plekanec isn't on top of his game and Danault isn't at the same level. A lot of Montreals problems on the PK this year start with how they deal with the points and the middle of the ice. Eller was excellent at taking away time and space from PP QBs and blocking lanes. Montreal misses that.

I like Montreal's healthy defensive depth. Upgrading Emelin or Beaulieu would be nice, but guys that are an ACTUAL upgrade (not talking about Oduya, Gudbranson, Franson, Kulikov or any of the other downgrades that people constantly mention on these boards) are going to be incredibly costly, if they're available at all.

Better to solidify the forward group, especially with someone defensively responsible instead. Its definitely more cost effective (especially come the expansion draft), and probably does more to improve the team, since there's more available out there. This team still only has 3 players that other teams NEED to watch at the forward position, and they're currently all on one line. Ideally you spread it out so that someone gets weaker matchups. That's how you win in the National Parity League come playoff time.
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
19,687
17,535
He's always been a streaky player though. Remember the first 2 games against Ottawa in playoffs where he looked like a legit 2nd liner and then disappeared for the rest of the playoffs and was scratched against TB?

I would not be so quick to assume he'll finish the season with ~12 goals and ~20 points. Let's not forget he's basically been a 3rd line player and even 2nd line player some nights with all the injuries. When the players will return he'll be back on the 4th unless he does better than them. I would not say his production while good is good enough to beat legit top 9 players right now.

His scoring disappeared in the playoffs that year because he went from shooting against a nervous Hammond to Craig Anderson and Ben Bishop.
 
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