Zubrus to IR; Torres put on active roster, assigned to 'Cuda

[Episkey]

Torres is scratched for today's game. And yeah he hasn't done anything of note in his two games back.

 

[LadyStanley]

Maintenance day Monday.

Did not practice with the rest of the team (excluding McLaren) Tuesday.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

frankly, I like our forwards without Raffi.

 

[sr228]

I still think the best thing for the org would be for them to realize that Torres can't play at the NHL level anymore because of his knee and put him on LTIR to open up a bit of much needed cap space.

Two weeks in the AHL isn't going to be enough to get him up to game speed.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I still think the best thing for the org would be for them to realize that Torres can't play at the NHL level anymore because of his knee and put him on LTIR to open up a bit of much needed cap space.

Two weeks in the AHL isn't going to be enough to get him up to game speed.

How does LTIR work? If Torres is actually healthy enough to play but just does not have game speed anymore because of his injuries, can we legally put him on LTIR?

 

[Led Zappa]

How does LTIR work? If Torres is actually healthy enough to play but just does not have game speed anymore because of his injuries, can we legally put him on LTIR?

He only has an NTC, so theoretically if he can't be put on LTIR they could wave him.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

He only has an NTC, so theoretically if he can't be put on LTIR they could wave him.

If they waive him and he is not picked up, would it still not count towards our salary cap? Man, if we can get the 2M owed to him cleared up somehow, it would give us some kind of flexibility before the TDL.

 

[Led Zappa]

If they waive him and he is not picked up, would it still not count towards our salary cap? Man, if we can get the 2M owed to him cleared up somehow, it would give us some kind of flexibility before the TDL.

Correct, players in the AHL don't count towards the CAP. Even Torres

 

[Barrie22]

If they waive him and he is not picked up, would it still not count towards our salary cap? Man, if we can get the 2M owed to him cleared up somehow, it would give us some kind of flexibility before the TDL.

900k would not count against the cap. So 1.1 million of 2 million would still count.

 

[sr228]

How does LTIR work? If Torres is actually healthy enough to play but just does not have game speed anymore because of his injuries, can we legally put him on LTIR?

I haven't read the LTIR stuff recently but if the org claims that he can no longer play due to multiple knee injuries & he agrees, who would question it?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Correct, players in the AHL don't count towards the CAP. Even Torres

Thanks for explaining that. So currently neither Torres nor Smith are counting towards our cap?

 

[Led Zappa]

900k would not count against the cap. So 1.1 million of 2 million would still count.

Learn something every day.

 

[sr228]

Correct, players in the AHL don't count towards the CAP. Even Torres

That's not quite accurate.

Waiving Torres would open up $925k, the rest would still count towards the cap.

 

[sr228]

Thanks for explaining that. So currently neither Torres nor Smith are counting towards our cap?

Both count towards the cap.

Smith is healthy & on the roster. Torres is on the roster but 'loaned' to the AHL on a conditioning stint.

 

[Barrie22]

Correct, players in the AHL don't count towards the CAP. Even Torres

Up to 900k doesn't count against the cap. Anything over still counts. So torres would still be counting 1.1 million of wasted space.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Both count towards the cap.

Smith is healthy i& on the roster. Torres is on the roster but 'loaned' to the AHL on a conditioning stint.

Ah ok. So based on the information above, for them to not count towards the cap, both of them would need to be waived first. I understood that Torres would clear up 900K by getting waived. How much would Smith clear up (assuming he is not claimed)?

Edit: NM, based on the above sounds like if both get waived (and not claimed) it would clear up $1.8M.

 

[Barrie22]

Ah ok. So based on the information above, for them to not count towards the cap, both of them would need to be waived first. I understood that Torres would clear up 900K by getting waived. How much would Smith clear up (assuming he is not claimed)?

Close to 600k. So both together would open up 1.5 million.

 

[sr228]

Ah ok. So based on the information above, for them to not count towards the cap, both of them would need to be waived first. I understood that Torres would clear up 900K by getting waived. How much would Smith clear up (assuming he is not claimed)?

It may actually be up to $950k this season but any player on a one way contract can be waived & if unclaimed, sent to the AHL and it will give the NHL club cap relief up to $950k.

If the players cap hit is more than $950, anything over it remains on the cap so Smith will still cost $550k against the cap.

 

[CrypTic]

How does LTIR work? If Torres is actually healthy enough to play but just does not have game speed anymore because of his injuries, can we legally put him on LTIR?

I think that if Torres doesn't have enough game speed to play, the Sharks would have a good argument that he's disabled and unfit to play within the meaning of 50.10. The NHL could challenge that but I'm not sure that they'd want to bc they'd probably prefer that he not play. It really depends on how the NHL defines "unfit to play" and also disabled. If he cleared waivers, I think that the Sharks would have a good argument that he's unable to perform adequately as an NHLer (as evidenced by the fact that no one wanted to claim him) and is disabled and unfit to play. It's not like his contract is onerous if he were a decent player.

ARTICLE 50 50.10-50.10

(d)Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit

In the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below. If, however, the League wishes to challenge the determination of a Club physician that a Player is unfit to play for purposes of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception, the League and the NHLPA shall promptly confer and jointly select a neutral physician, who shall review the Club physician's determination regarding the Player's fitness to play.



If they bury Torres in the AHL, 1.050M would be counted against the cap. It's like sr said ($950k relief).

http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-how-do-buried-contracts-work/

 

[Barrie22]

And then there is still the question of is the owner happy paying 3.5 million to players just wasting away in the ahl.

 

[sr228]

And then there is still the question of is the owner happy paying 3.5 million to players just wasting away in the ahl.

I'm pretty comfortable in saying that it's HIGHLY unlikely they waive and bury multiple players.

I'd be very surprised if they waived & buried any one player making over $1mil.

Edit: I should add that they may not have a choice with Smith if it comes down to it but I'd guess they'd try to move him for "future considerations" before burying him in the AHL.

 

[Barrie22]

I think that if Torres doesn't have enough game speed to play, the Sharks would have a good argument that he's disabled and unfit to play within the meaning of 50.10. The NHL could challenge that but I'm not sure that they'd want to bc they'd probably prefer that he not play. It really depends on how the NHL defines "unfit to play" and also disabled. If he cleared waivers, I think that the Sharks would have a good argument that he's unable to perform adequately as an NHLer (as evidenced by the fact that no one wanted to claim him) and is disabled and unfit to play. It's not like his contract is onerous if he were a decent player.

ARTICLE 50 50.10-50.10

(d)Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit

In the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below. If, however, the League wishes to challenge the determination of a Club physician that a Player is unfit to play for purposes of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception, the League and the NHLPA shall promptly confer and jointly select a neutral physician, who shall review the Club physician's determination regarding the Player's fitness to play.



If they bury Torres in the AHL, 1.050M would be counted against the cap. It's like ssr said ($950k relief).

http://www.colliganhockey.com/nhl-cba-how-do-buried-contracts-work/

Just because he is not fit to be an nhl player, doesn't mean he is not fit to be a hockey player.

 

[CrypTic]

Just because he is not fit to be an nhl player, doesn't mean he is not fit to be a hockey player.

That's true. Like I said, it depends on how the parties define "unfit to play" as well as "disabled". My guess is that they intended "hockey player' to mean able to play in the NHL given the context. But I don't know what. Similarly, in most disability policies, if you are unable to perform your prior job, you are considered disabled within the meaning of the policy. But "disabled" can be defined in other ways as well, e.g., "unable to perform any job [reasonably available somewhere in the USA]" like it is for Social Security disability in the USA.

Bottom line for me is that I think that the NHL would not want to challenge a physician's determination that Torres is unfit to play bc they'd rather that he not play. But that's a guess on my part.

 

[Barrie22]

That's true. Like I said, it depends on how the parties define "unfit to play" as well as "disabled". My guess is that they intended "hockey player' to mean able to play in the NHL given the context. But I don't know what. Similarly, in most disability policies, if you are unable to perform your prior job, you are considered disabled within the meaning of the policy. But "disabled" can be defined in other ways as well, e.g., "unable to perform any job [reasonably available somewhere in the USA]" like it is for Social Security disability in the USA.

Bottom line for me is that I think that the NHL would not want to challenge a physician's determination that Torres is unfit to play bc they'd rather that he not play. But that's a guess on my part.

I am guessing they will not go against any player either. That would start a huge war with the nhlpa if torres got a 2nd opinion outside of the nhl teams doctor and they said he is good to go.

 

[sr228]

Paul Gackle @GackleReport
#SJSharks Torres say he may have pushed his come back w/ @sjbarracuda "a little to quick" experienced a set back after 2 games on weekend

He may end up on LTIR after all...

Also, Zubrus will be activated from IR as soon as Smith either clears waivers or gets claimed.