Zetterberg Out of Olympics/Indefinitely

[silkyjohnson50]

The point wouldn' be to make the Wings a better team in the short run. The point is to concentrate resources toward a new young team.

I hear ya. The Edmonton model appears promising.

 

[benusmc]

The point wouldn' be to make the Wings a better team in the short run. The point is to concentrate resources toward a new young team.

But the Wings look like they are already in a very favorable position in the long run, our AHL prospects are ridiculous. Have a team capable of being a very dangerous team in the playoffs now that Babcock/Holland took their heads out of their *****, so why randomly tank? You only tank when you can get top 5, and that sure as **** won't happen to the Wings even w/o Z/Dats

 

[ricky0034]

It was In last years paper, Last summer both Datsyuk and his agent said that Datsyuk would only play for Detroit or he would go home to Russia If he were asked for a trade It's dumb because Dats will never be trade In a million years any ways

talking about the old quote that wasn't even remotely like that again then

got it

 

[Shoalzie]

The point wouldn' be to make the Wings a better team in the short run. The point is to concentrate resources toward a new young team.

I'll repeat this again...would we rather see our young guys (in uniform) perform and help push this team to the playoffs? Losing sucks...doing it on purpose is nonsense.

 

[benusmc]

I'll repeat this again...would we rather see our young guys (in uniform) perform and help push this team to the playoffs? Losing sucks...doing it on purpose is nonsense.

Funny thing is our younger players are the ones making the playoff push.


Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco/Dekeyeser/Glendening (terrible offensively, but he sure pisses the stars on the other team off)

 

[Shoalzie]

Funny thing is our younger players are the ones making the playoff push.


Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco/Dekeyeser/Glendening (terrible offensively, but he sure pisses the stars on the other team off)

Exactly my point...and those guys just won a championship in the AHL. These guys can win. What's the fear in letting them shoulder the burden of keeping the playoff streak alive? Wouldn't we feel better about next year if these kids deliver and they can make the playoffs without Hank (or Mule or even Pavel)? But no, let's throw another prospect in the mix that might be good for the Wings in 4 years.

 

[Marky9er]

Funny thing is our younger players are the ones making the playoff push.


Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco/Dekeyeser

The not funny thing is that these are the only players that are worth anything in a trade if you want to go for it.

 

[Shoalzie]

The not funny thing is that these are the only players that are worth anything in a trade if you want to go for it.

Who can you get that can reasonably replace Hank? You aren't going to want to give up what it would take to get a rental like that...see Vanek's price tag.

If you go with a rental, give up something that's not helping you now. Teams always want to add a piece without giving up a roster player. Right now, Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, etc. are roster players.

 

[Yemack]

I'll repeat this again...would we rather see our young guys (in uniform) perform and help push this team to the playoffs? Losing sucks...doing it on purpose is nonsense.

with what Datsyuk showed, there is a hope. It will be a challenge, but I think reaching playoff is doable. I think we might have to deploy bit more defensive strategy and Howard needs to go on a roll like last playoff.

This is assuming Z is done for the season. I think he needs to be, since everyone now knows his back is busted and will try to crosscheck him from now on, he will need some sort of kevlar armour on his back. If he attempts to come back too quickly, he could done professionally to say the LEAST.

As for Weiss, I have no idea what he is capable of.

 

[Shoalzie]

with what Datsyuk showed, there is a hope. It will be a challenge, but I think reaching playoff is doable. I think we might have to deploy bit more defensive strategy and Howard needs to go on a roll like last playoff.

This is assuming Z is done for the season. I think he needs to be, since everyone now knows his back is busted and will try to crosscheck him from now on, he will need some sort of kevlar armour on his back. If he attempts to come back too quickly, he could done professionally to say the LEAST.

As for Weiss, I have no idea what he is capable of.

Pavel's health is crucial but yesterday made me believe he's alright. Hank is done for the year as far as I'm concerned.

And Weiss is definitely a wild card...if he can pick up for the lost offense from Hank, that's a win in my book.

 

[MissNHL]

I could have sworn the sky was falling from this thread. I also feel like there are so many "doctors" in this thread and Zetterberg himself who can tell us that he is done and retiring.

 

[jaster]

- Zetterberg's career is probably over
- Franzen's season is over
- The team should tank for a higher draft pick
- We should trade Datsyuk since the Wings have no chance at a Cup for at least 3-4 years

Did I hit all the highlights of this thread? This board cracks me up

 

[Henkka]

- Zetterberg's career is probably over
- Franzen's season is over
- The team should tank for a higher draft pick
- We should trade Datsyuk since the Wings have no chance at a Cup for at least 3-4 years

Did I hit all the highlights of this thread? This board cracks me up

You forgot one:

- The sky is falling.

 

[jaster]

I'm repulsed at anyone using the word 'tank' for the rest of this season. They're in playoff position when they resume and yes, it's quite possible they can fall out of contention and the streak may come to an end. But wouldn't we want to see the kids grow up and pick up for their fallen captain?

When did we become the Oilers? What's a lottery pick worth to us...especially when we have to wait a few years to see these kids make the show anyway. How many prospects have made the Wings under the age of 20 or 21? The guys in this uniform matter more right now and some of those are guys many of us have wanted to see play. Now we want to just throw the season away because they might miss the playoffs?

I can't disagree more with the motivation to fail. I'd feel different is this was a team that has been riding the old war horses...but this team is in contention with Bertuzzi and Cleary in the press box and Samuelsson in the AHL. If this team is going to succeed going forward, you'll want the Nyquists and Tatars to deliver this time of year. The reason why you have a streak like this...you bring these young players up in a winning environment.

Breath of fresh air, Shoalzie

If this team does anything to lower their chances of making the playoffs, I will be disgusted. But I don't at all expect them to, so I'm not worried about it.

The kids being players in getting this team into the playoffs with Hank sidelined would be huge for them and for the organization. Far more value in that than moving up a handful of spots in the draft. A winning culture cultivates a winning culture, as long as you can keep it going. And that doesn't mean you have to win the Cup. Under this team's current circumstances, having the kids help lead the charge to a playoff spot is a win in the long run.

I'll repeat this again...would we rather see our young guys (in uniform) perform and help push this team to the playoffs? Losing sucks...doing it on purpose is nonsense.

Damaging, even.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Actually the team is in contention (for the final playoff spot just so we are clear here) based on the awfulness of the entire East and a relatively decent start when the young players were mostly not there. On December 1st we were #3 in the East with 35 points out of 28 games. We are now #7 in the East with 64 points out of 58 games. That's 29 points out of 30 games.

The last 10 games the Wings have 12 points. That represents a stabilization of form but let's not pretend that shows this is a team that's going to play for the Cup. The Wings haven't exactly gained ground.

While I like our young players, it's very optimistic to think they represent a future Cup-winning core and even if they do, that future isn't for another 5-6 years and surely rather than paying expensive 34 and older veterans to take up roster spots in that timeframe we'd do better with building toward the future.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Actually the team is in contention (for the final playoff spot just so we are clear here) based on the awfulness of the entire East and a relatively decent start when the young players were mostly not there. On December 1st we were #3 in the East with 35 points out of 28 games. We are now #7 in the East with 64 points out of 58 games. That's 29 points out of 30 games.

The last 10 games the Wings have 12 points. That represents a stabilization of form but let's not pretend that shows this is a team that's going to play for the Cup. The Wings haven't exactly gained ground.

While I like our young players, it's very optimistic to think they represent a future Cup-winning core and even if they do, that future isn't for another 5-6 years and surely rather than paying expensive 34 and older veterans to take up roster spots in that timeframe we'd do better with building toward the future.

Than paying guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi and Cleary, yes. Pavel Datsyuk is still literally one of the best players in the world. Not used to be, but as of yesterday still is.

You don't trade a player of Datsyuks caliber for futures when you are fighting for a playoff seed. If the Wings were playing like the Oilers, then sure trade your aging stars who have value to get more assets. The Wings still need to ice a competitive team and trading Datsyuk especially with the mystery of Hanks health would not at all serve that purpose.

 

[Heaton]

The point wouldn' be to make the Wings a better team in the short run. The point is to concentrate resources toward a new young team.

I don't think there's anything you can show me that says the Wings can't content within the next 4 years. Do you believe Tatar, Nyquist, DeKeyser, Jurco, Sheahan won't be in their prime within 4 years? How many then? 6? 8? 10?

This Wings team should be a contender by next season assuming Holland makes some right moves. I think we're one top 4 defenseman away. The only way this team doesn't take huge strides next year is if all of our young players regress.

 

[Shoalzie]

Damaging, even.

Exactly. What do losers do? Lose. The Oilers are a broken franchise. You can feed all the talent into that mix but you can't fix losing. Most of us are Lions fans...we know the drill. Sometimes you just need to gut it and get the right guys in there.

I wouldn't dare introduce losing to the young guys in this system. The Wings make the playoffs every year and contend for titles most years and their AHL club is becoming a winning program.

It almost appears that some of us here seem to get bored with just making the playoffs. This team has succeeded with little or no lottery level talent. They've won doing it the hard way.

 

[Heaton]

Exactly. What do losers do? Lose. The Oilers are a broken franchise. You can feed all the talent into that mix but you can't fix losing. Most of us are Lions fans...we know the drill. Sometimes you just need to gut it and get the right guys in there.

I wouldn't dare introduce losing to the young guys in this system. The Wings make the playoffs every year and contend for titles most years and their AHL club is becoming a winning program.

It almost appears that some of us here seem to get bored with just making the playoffs. This team has succeeded with little or no lottery level talent. They've won doing it the hard way.

Exactly, the Wings haven't been top tier for a few years, but we see what is coming. Tanking very rarely works unless you get incredibly lucky, even then, tanking is very rarely intentional.

 

[Shoalzie]

How did Pavel, Hank and Kronwall become winners? They played with winners and learned from them. As of now, I don't see singular stars that could reach the level of Hank or Pavel in this next wave of talent...at worst, they'll be an assemble cast. There's time for one or more of them to emerge.

The talk of trading Pavel is about as bad as talking about tanking. You can't trade players of his caliber away and his work ethic should be kept around for the young players to learn from. I'd want Hank and Pavel to teach them to win but I'd also want them to learn how to work hard and play a complete game.

 

[Frk It]

This is some pretty good perspective when looking at this on a deeper level. Didn't think of this stuff at first, good stuff Shoalzie. Would have to agree with what you're saying.

 

[Heaton]

How did Pavel, Hank and Kronwall become winners? They played with winners and learned from them. As of now, I don't see singular stars that could reach the level of Hank or Pavel in this next wave of talent...at worst, they'll be an assemble cast. There's time for one or more of them to emerge.

The talk of trading Pavel is about as bad as talking about tanking. You can't trade players of his caliber away and his work ethic should be kept around for the young players to learn from. I'd want Hank and Pavel to teach them to win but I'd also want them to learn how to work hard and play a complete game.

Not just that, trade Pavel for what? Draft picks and prospects? We have too many prospects as is, we do not have the space for all of our prospects, but we need more at the expense of our best players?

In my opinion, we need to be trading prospects, not trading for them. Maybe not during the season, but during the draft when teams are re-evaluating their prospects, get some established upper line talent and get consistent.

 

[ricky0034]

Exactly, the Wings haven't been top tier for a few years, but we see what is coming. Tanking very rarely works unless you get incredibly lucky, even then, tanking is very rarely intentional.

a lot of it depends on draft strength really

the Oilers drafted 1st overall three years in a row and got Hall/RNH/Yakupov,Hall's pretty damn good but all in all compared to who was drafted 1st overall immedietely before and after it looks pretty bad

the Oilers would be so much better off if they had Kane/Stamkos/Tavares(the three that were drafted first overall immedietely before their three first overalls) instead,they'd still have holes but that's a legitimately ridiculous forward group right there

this years draft looks like a pretty bad one

 

[jaster]

Not just that, trade Pavel for what? Draft picks and prospects? We have too many prospects as is, we do not have the space for all of our prospects, but we need more at the expense of our best players?

In my opinion, we need to be trading prospects, not trading for them. Maybe not during the season, but during the draft when teams are re-evaluating their prospects, get some established upper line talent and get consistent.

I hate the idea of trading prospects, but you're right. At some point, you have too many legitimate prospects to fit on your team. And the Wings may be at, or close to, that point. A very large chunk of our top prospects are in GR and knocking on the door, or are about to be. Good asset management involves moving some of them as pieces to help upgrade other aspects of the organization. I just hope it's not my personal favorite prospects who get moved

 

[Shoalzie]

With prospects and how the Wings develop talent...you'd like to think the cream rises to the top. You load up the Griffins with the top prospects and let them battle it out and the best part of not fast tracking your prospects...they have to earn their spot with the Wings.

Say what you want about Kenny with his fetish for older players and passing on the young talent in-house...I think he's warming up to some of the youngsters playing now because they're actually more effective than the vets.