Zbynek Michalek

[WhatsaMaatta]

Haha I never said it was his worst mistake. It was just an example of a completely wasted off-season.

I think this is a fair question, and I'm just curious to see what your response will be. Could you give me an example of 5 GMs that you like better or think would do a better job of handling this team than Shero? Clearly you dislike Shero and feel he's one of the worst in the league, so even listing 15 GMs shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Fire Shero*]

While Shero didn't get ideal value for Michalek, it wasn't a terrible trade like you make it sound.

1) created cap space to go after a FA. Sure they didn't succeed in getting Suter or Parise, but we signed Scuderi a year later. D is the last thing this organization needs now or in the foreseeable future.

It created cap space that wasn't used last season until the deadline. We wasted months playing ****** players with Malkin then a month watching Boychuk clown around out there with Geno.

So good thing we freed up that cap space to sign Scuderi a year later. I'm sure Shero gave away Michalek knowing he could sign Scuderi in a year. Really????

I didn't know Shero had a crystal ball. I'm relieved we sat on the cap space for a year to sign a has been run of the mill defenseman. Thank god we didn't sign Parise.

MOAR dmen.

Give me a break. It was a disastrous off-season. Why can't you shero lovers admit that? I can admit he made some very good trades, why can't others agree that he pissed away the last 2 off-seasons.

 

[The Tang]

factoring in Michalek and his lack of a plan for if he didn't get Parise, yes. Except for maybe the Morrow trade I guess.

I'd consider not firing Bylsma and his assistants the last two years to be far, far worse because as long as those three are here, what talent is on this team is irrelevant. Even if Shero got Parise and Suter, they'd still gag in the post season.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I think this is a fair question, and I'm just curious to see what your response will be. Could you give me an example of 5 GMs that you like better or think would do a better job of handling this team than Shero? Clearly you dislike Shero and feel he's one of the worst in the league, so even listing 15 GMs shouldn't be an issue.

Nonis
Chiarelli
Lombardi
Holland
Bob Murray
Bowman
Armstrong
Terry Murray

Shero is on the same level as Kevin Cheveldayoff and Jim Rutherford

 

[Fire Shero*]

Anyways, I don't know how you justify that trade.

 

[The Tang]

While Shero didn't get ideal value for Michalek, it wasn't a terrible trade like you make it sound.

1) created cap space to go after a FA. Sure they didn't succeed in getting Suter or Parise, but we signed Scuderi a year later. D is the last thing this organization needs now or in the foreseeable future.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but...

If Michalek was kept, you wouldn't need Scuderi, and even then Michalek > Scuderi. Further, as pointed out, the cap space wasn't even used.

2) It got them a decent D prospect and their best goalie prospect since Fleury. Zatkoff has been very solid so far this season.

While Zatkoff may be good, he's still a rookie and there's no guarantee he'll keep it up. Further, another D prospect is literally the last thing this team needed.

3) If Michalek was still here, people like you would be complaining that he's playing instead of Maatta, Despres, and Bortuzzo.

I'm not sure about that, but I will say I don't see how people would think Michalek couldn't turn it around when martin did and Martin played worse than Z.

I see 3 positives that this trade created and literally 0 negatives. The D is solid. The PK is tops in the league. D depth is unmatched.

We got rid of a top 4 defender, didn't utilize the cap space and in return got 2 prospects who the jury is still out on. I don't consider those positives at all.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

It created cap space that wasn't used last season until the deadline. We wasted months playing ****** players with Malkin then a month watching Boychuk clown around out there with Geno.

So good thing we freed up that cap space to sign Scuderi a year later. I'm sure Shero gave away Michalek knowing he could sign Scuderi in a year. Really????

I didn't know Shero had a crystal ball. I'm relieved we sat on the cap space for a year to sign a has been run of the mill defenseman. Thank god we didn't sign Parise.

MOAR dmen.

Give me a break. It was a disastrous off-season. Why can't you shero lovers admit that? I can admit he made some very good trades, why can't others agree that he pissed away the last 2 off-seasons.

Seems like the you're still under the impression that regular season matters. The year they "gave away" Michalek and "wasted" Malkin with Boychuk they were #1 in the conference. As a result, Shero stock piled talent at the deadline to prepare for the playoffs.

It also seems like you think a GM's job is just to make cool trades or big FA acquisions. It's not how running a real team works.

Yes, let's rag on Scuderi now, who would be a top 4 Dmen on 30 NHL teams. Always reliable on D. Big part of 2 recent Stanley Cup winners. Yea, stupid acquisition.

I don't "love" Shero. I appreciate the moves that he's done because I'm able to see and understand the big picture.

 

[Jesus Vitale]

Like the Eaton thread that got bumped a while ago, i almost had a heart attack seeing Michalek's name back on the front page.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but...

If Michalek was kept, you wouldn't need Scuderi, and even then Michalek > Scuderi. Further, as pointed out, the cap space wasn't even used.


While Zatkoff may be good, he's still a rookie and there's no guarantee he'll keep it up. Further, another D prospect is literally the last thing this team needed.



I'm not sure about that, but I will say I don't see how people would think Michalek couldn't turn it around when martin did and Martin played worse than Z.


We got rid of a top 4 defender, didn't utilize the cap space and in return got 2 prospects who the jury is still out on. I don't consider those positives at all.

Cap space brought us Iginla, Morrow, Jokinen, and Murray at the deadline. Then Scuderi in the following off season. If Michalek was still here those deadline acquisitions wouldn't be possible.

Obviously it's easy to bash a move in hind site, but if a player doesn't want to be here chances are his game will reflect that.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd consider not firing Bylsma and his assistants the last two years to be far, far worse because as long as those three are here, what talent is on this team is irrelevant. Even if Shero got Parise and Suter, they'd still gag in the post season.

can't argue with that. I was thinking about roster moves I guess.

 

[Ogrezilla]

real quick: Michalek is not better than Scuderi.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Nonis
Chiarelli
Lombardi
Holland
Bob Murray
Bowman
Armstrong
Terry Murray

Shero is on the same level as Kevin Cheveldayoff and Jim Rutherford

Can you perhaps elaborate on why you would choose some of these GMs over Shero? Maybe cite specific examples. Someone like Bowman I understand, however there's a few on this list that I really, really don't. I'm most interested in why you chose the a minor league head coach with no experience as a GM as someone you'd rather have as our GM.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Seems like the you're still under the impression that regular season matters. The year they "gave away" Michalek and "wasted" Malkin with Boychuk they were #1 in the conference. As a result, Shero stock piled talent at the deadline to prepare for the playoffs.

It also seems like you think a GM's job is just to make cool trades or big FA acquisions. It's not how running a real team works.

Yes, let's rag on Scuderi now, who would be a top 4 Dmen on 30 NHL teams. Always reliable on D. Big part of 2 recent Stanley Cup winners. Yea, stupid acquisition.

I don't "love" Shero. I appreciate the moves that he's done because I'm able to see and understand the big picture.

Sorry, but I would prefer a GM who could surround Geno and Sid with better players than Dupuis and Jokinen. This might be crazy, but i would love for this team to have more than 1 offensive prospect. Maybe 2? This way he wouldn't have to go dumpster diving yearly. I know it's insane, but I think you should play some of the young dmen instead of them sitting around behind Orpik and Engelland. I know this might sound absurd, but I would fire the coach who is simply incompetent. I would appreciate a GM who didn't waste two consecutive off-seasons doing almost nothing to improve the team.

Orpik Letang
Martin Scuderi
Engelland Bourtuzzo/Despres and that doesn't consider Maatta.

That's a pretty good lineup. Then you see Dupuis and Jokinen in the top 6. You decide to keep Dopee and sign another past his prime dman? Really?

It's just frustrating. He got a free pass his first 4 - 5 years. But not anymore. There's nothing I can say that will change anyone shero lovers mind. We will just agree to disagree. I won't patronize you when you finally see the light.

 

[Fire Shero*]

He took over a team that was the youngest in the league. We are now the oldest squad in the NHL. We have 1 or 2 nhl caliber players in the bottom 6. We have 2 respectable wingers. We have a terrible head coach. What else needs to go wrong for you people to wake up?

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

Nonis
Chiarelli
Lombardi
Holland
Bob Murray
Bowman
Armstrong
Terry Murray

Shero is on the same level as Kevin Cheveldayoff and Jim Rutherford

I can speak with 100% certainty that you have no idea what any of those GMs contributed to their franchises and just spit out random names who you've heard of.

However, let's bring up the GM that everyone thinks is the gold standard of GMing, Ken Holland of Detroit. What has he done lately?

Youth development. What current players on their team that have a significant role, outside of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, were drafted/developed by Detroit? Howard, Helm, Kronwall, Ericsson, Franzen. Maybe Dekeyser, Smith, and Kindl. Not an impressive bunch.

How many excessive contracts do they have? Franzen is one of the worst in NHL. Zetterberg, while a great player, has a cap hit of $6 mill until 2021. He'll be 41.

What are their recent "big" FA signings? 41 year old Alfredsson. Bertuzzi. Weiss. Impressive bunch.

They're $2.4 million under the cap, and are unlikely to make the playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He took over a team that was the youngest in the league. We are now the oldest squad in the NHL. We have 1 or 2 nhl caliber players in the bottom 6. We have 2 respectable wingers. We have a terrible head coach. What else needs to go wrong for you people to wake up?

I won't argue with the coach. He sucks.

Other than that, we are 2 middle 6 wingers away from having a pretty damn complete team. If the coach would use them correctly that is. He does suck.

Kunitz - Crosby - Winger/Bennett
Winger - Malkin - Neal
Jokinen - Sutter - Bennett/Winger
Sill - Vitale - Megna

Scuderi - Letang
Orpik - Martin
Maatta - Bortuzzo

Fleury

We aren't that far away from having a very very good team from top to bottom.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

He took over a team that was the youngest in the league. We are now the oldest squad in the NHL. We have 1 or 2 nhl caliber players in the bottom 6. We have 2 respectable wingers. We have a terrible head coach. What else needs to go wrong for you people to wake up?

I would like you to explain to me how age matters. Should we get rid of Kunitz because he's old? Scuderi and Martin are old too. Let's get rid of them.

Bottom 6 has "1 or 2 NHL caliber players" because there are injuries. If everyone is healthy it's usable. Still, acquiring a 3rd liner at the deadline is a lot easier than acquiriing a scoring wingers or a Dman.

If your standard for "respectable wingers" is a point per game, 30+ goal scoring winger like Kunitz and Neal, you will never be satisfied with any NHL roster.

Bylsma has a weird man crush on Adams and Engo. This doesn't make him a bad coach. Every coach has his quirks and his teacher's pets.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I can speak with 100% certainty that you have no idea what any of those GMs contributed to their franchises and just spit out random names who you've heard of.

However, let's bring up the GM that everyone thinks is the gold standard of GMing, Ken Holland of Detroit. What has he done lately?

Youth development. What current players on their team that have a significant role, outside of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, were drafted/developed by Detroit? Howard, Helm, Kronwall, Ericsson, Franzen. Maybe Dekeyser, Smith, and Kindl. Not an impressive bunch.

How many excessive contracts do they have? Franzen is one of the worst in NHL. Zetterberg, while a great player, has a cap hit of $6 mill until 2021. He'll be 41.

What are their recent "big" FA signings? 41 year old Alfredsson. Bertuzzi. Weiss. Impressive bunch.

They're $2.4 million under the cap, and are unlikely to make the playoffs.

I'm using my phone so it's a ***** to
switch screens. I will just say that Alfredsson will put up 60+ points.

Tartar, Nyquist and Jurco are very promising. Something we don't know anything about.

Howard is having a rough season. But at least he doesn't require psychiatric help because he breaks down every post season.

Detroit is in a weird stage. Kind of a mini-rebuild.

I just think we would be in a better situation now if we had anyone of those gms. We will never know, I just think the pens are stale and I'm so sick of Shero's quick fix approach. You have had 8 years to find Crosby a winger and the best you could do was Chris Kunitz and Pascal Dupuis. Shero really is Piole 2.0.

Look at Nashville, that would be our team if Crosby and Malkin weren't already here before Shero came to town.

 

[The Tang]

can't argue with that. I was thinking about roster moves I guess.

In terms of roster moves, yeah, that may have been the biggest fiasco. You would have thought he learned after Hossa.

real quick: Michalek is not better than Scuderi.

Michalek is faster, will play up on a man, not terrible with a puck, and at least the same level of defensive responsibility. I consider that better. But let's agree to disagree not to get off topic.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

That wasn't hyperbole. Just my opinion that I respect Shero and the Penguins organization for treating their players with some respect. As opposed to Holmgren who will sign his guys to long term deals and then ship them out not a year later.

I also don't think trading away Michalek had any impact on this team's ability to win. He clearly didn't fit stylistically with the way the team wants to play with Crosby and Malkin in the lineup so he was shipped out. Maybe Shero could have gotten back marginally better assets from another team, but apparently Shero was/is really high on Ruopp and the draft pick he got back is now one of the team's top forward prospects. I'd hardly call that "giving away" an asset. In any case, Michalek came here as a free agent so to get decent assets back for a defenseman who struggled in a new system and who still had three years left at a significant cap hit without taking back salary isn't a fleecing in my eyes.

Using Holmgren is Hyperbole because he is such an extreme. No one wants him but that doesn't mean we like Shero.

The Z trade did have an impact on this team. Martin has shown us that a high caliber player can turn it around after a bad season, and Z returned to form in PHO so there is a pretty good chance he would have turned things around here.

Also, trading him for garbage instead of a player that could have helped this team made an impact. OTT (the other team Z would go to) traded Folingo to CBJ for a Dman shortly after the draft. I'd say that not having a top 4 Dman or a top 9 winger is making an impact on this team.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

While Shero didn't get ideal value for Michalek, it wasn't a terrible trade like you make it sound.

1) created cap space to go after a FA. Sure they didn't succeed in getting Suter or Parise, but we signed Scuderi a year later. D is the last thing this organization needs now or in the foreseeable future.

2) It got them a decent D prospect and their best goalie prospect since Fleury. Zatkoff has been very solid so far this season.

3) If Michalek was still here, people like you would be complaining that he's playing instead of Maatta, Despres, and Bortuzzo.

I see 3 positives that this trade created and literally 0 negatives. The D is solid. The PK is tops in the league. D depth is unmatched.

1 - He didn't actually need to clear space to sign ZP.

2 - Zat wasn't the goalie he got in the deal.

3 - If he was still here one of Nisky/Orpik would be gone ando/or Scuds wouldn't have been sighed.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

wasted off season? sigh.

Signed Vokoun, who saved the team from another Fleury playoff collapse. Played great in 3 of the 4 games vs Boston.

Traded away Staal (was it the same off season? I can't remember). While he had no choice, he got a significant return. And let's be realistic, $6 million for Staal is overpayment.

With trading away Michalek, created enough cap room to make a big splash at the trade deadline. Which he did. When was the last time a team acquired an Iginla, JJ, Morrow, and Murray in the same deadline? Also, this allowed him to bring back Scuderi the following year.

You do know that Shero offered Staal that 60M deal, right?

 

[Ogrezilla]

3 - If he was still here one of Nisky/Orpik would be gone ando/or Scuds wouldn't have been sighed.

I'd rather have Scuds, Ruopp and Sundqvist than Michalek.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'd rather have Scuds, Ruopp and Sundqvist than Michalek.

How about Scuds and Folingo?

 

[Ogrezilla]

How about Scuds and Folingo?

I'd rather that, but do you know we could have had that? Would the Sens have waited until the Parise situation played out?