Proposal: zadina + for kakko

[SirloinUB]

Never mind the value, the premise of the trade doesn’t really make sense to begin with.

 

[bernmeister]

First off, I never said you suggested a one for one. I highlighted Seider and Trouba because the difference in value between Zadina and Kakko is so negligible currently that you apparently think the Seider/Trouba value is close. It isn’t. The difference in Kakko and Zadina isn’t even remotely close to getting Detroit to take Trouba’s unmoveable contract off your hands AND give you Seider.

More importantly, you really don’t seem to get that Yzerman isn’t trading away top prospects for lesser pieces, because you were saying this same ridiculous stuff last year, when you suggested Seider+ for a package highlighted by Chytil and Deangelo.

The GMs who rebuild like that don’t last long as GMs.

"I highlighted Seider and Trouba because the difference in value between Zadina and Kakko is so negligible currently that you apparently think the Seider/Trouba value is close."

I took pains to clarify that is not the valuation.
Zadina is not key to NYR. We have enough Ws. We don't need and don't particularly want him.
YOU want to make it about a Seider:Trouba 1:1, and I never went there.

Trouba has rebounded very nicely now that he is not playing w/Staal/Smith and has a good complimentary partner in K'A Miller. He remains overpriced 1-1.5 per. He is not worth Seider, but he is not worthless. The idea was always to make a package. Prior to Nils L and Schneider arriving, it was nec to get Seider in the return. Now, not so much. However,
the correct dynamic is Seider and Kakko, not any other.
NY continues not to want to trade KK.
But IF IF IF IF we were, Seider would be included.
Again, this is hypothetical as a courtesy to the OP who was set on seeing if KK could be pried away.
No. And as I correctly surmised, put KK w/Panarin and great results have followed.
The other shoe will drop when Kravtsov, who is being broken in slowly w/less responsibilities at W, is made the C of that line.

To be clear we are keeping KK and you are keeping MS

--------
"More importantly, you really don’t seem to get that Yzerman isn’t trading away top prospects for lesser pieces, because you were saying this same ridiculous stuff last year, when you suggested Seider+ for a package highlighted by Chytil and Deangelo."

Let's not be disingenuous here.
You develop as slowly as it takes, or you consider moves that add more talent more quickly.

After initially holding out Chytil, I then reluctantly included him as DET wanted solid C add.
Now, given add of Nils L and Schneider, would not do that deal.

I was correct about emergence of Chytil as 2C with further potential.
Deangleo is obv a prob for non hockey reasons, which no one could foresee, certainly to degree as it unfolded. However, at the time, his production at RD, which improved last season, was signif.

Had that deal gone down:
Chytil - 2C behind Larkin w/1C potential production
Trouba + Deangelo adding a quality RD = net of 1 after Seider subtracted
plus other assets

for

Seider +.

This would have been a net plus for Wings and by adding more desired quality bodies factually would have speed up development. Deangelo might still have been a clusterfk waiting to happen, or dif environment, might never have blown up. We will never know.

The counter argument to that is Seider may be not just a highly productive player, he may be a star, and DET can't afford to pass up and deal a star b'c they are hard to acquire.
That is a fair argument. Neither that nor the counter argument are prevailing, they are 2 sides of the same coin.
Seider currently may be viewed as Hedman lite. How lite remains to be seen.
We will see what happens when he gets here, which looks good.

As for Trouba, NY will be able to move him --- something not predicated on his performance as much as emerging Schneider replacing him --- in 3 years at most.
Schneider likely ready before and to what extent Trouba sees the writing on the wall and waives before remains to be seen.

Would have been nice to accommodate him to DET if possible, but things are what they are.
This would not be a conv, btw, if NYR would have listened to my dictum that going forward NO NMCs ever for anybody. Period.
Extensive NTCs sufficiently adequate.

 

[nbwingsfan]

guess again.

After being in the draft + develop wilderness for the longest time, FINALLY gorton and his team are hitting on all cylinders generally. [Granted, a 1OA and 2OA help your odds, but NYR have not drafted that high in decades, we were way overdue. Also, that is only 2 picks.]

we will keep our picks as we exit the rebuild doldrums with Nils L and Morgan Barron joining the party next season.

NJ, DET are not that close yet

Its a mystery why anyone even responds to you and how you live in the same reality as us. Im going to take my own advice and let you talk to yourself in your basement

 

[bernmeister]

Its a mystery why anyone even responds to you and how you live in the same reality as us. Im going to take my own advice and let you talk to yourself in your basement

That is YOUR inaccurate perception of reality.
... and your condescension.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yes, I do. How about we all calm down. Kakko and Lundkvist are fine prospects. Zadina and Seider are fine prospects. You're not trading your guys and we aren't trading ours.

This has been my point the entire time...

 

[One Winged Angel]

The same things show seider is far superior to nils, you know, if your gonna cling to that.

No, they actually don’t. Red Wings fans are the only ones that have the arrogance to believe this, anyone who actually watches the both of them on a regular basis would tell you otherwise.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Zadina has higher GAR and WAR this year and last, which are better measures of individual contribution than stats like CF/60 and xGF. And Kakko's xGA, CA/60 are definitely helped being on a better, more talented team. If anything they're equals (value wise) atp. People on this site are just obsessed with draft pedigree, and Kakko came in with a ton of hype so naturally people will cling to that until it becomes crystal clear that the other guy is in fact better

Those numbers are independent and Kakko hasn’t had consistent linemates, so how is that the case? It’s not like Kakko is playing with Panarin the entire year. He hasn’t had much time in the top-6.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This has been my point the entire time...

Yep. Just backing you up that not all Wings fans are frothing at the mouth for this or offended if you don't think our prospects are god-tier.

 

[lucaseider]

No, they actually don’t. Red Wings fans are the only ones that have the arrogance to believe this, anyone who actually watches the both of them on a regular basis would tell you otherwise.

We are the arrogant ones when you insist that kakko is better than zadina and nils has better offense and comparable defense to seider? Ok, pot, kettle and all that. Every single list has seider ranked higher, it's not just wing fans, look at the thread from button list. Actual fans from Sweden, not wing fans say seider is on a different tier. But I guess 1 non biased ranger fan knows better than everyone else. Gtfo with arrogant wings fans when you are worse than anyone else. You won't start a poll because you say people don't watch them, when I reality you have never seen seider and I would trust the Swedish posters over your biased view.

 

[Hockey Fanatik]

Id maybe trade for Zadina to NJ

Jesper Bratt, Reilly Walsh, and a 2021 2nd for Filip Zadina and a 2021 4th

Zadina is more of a shooter than Jesper and I like his age aligned more with Jack, who I think he'd do well with. Zadina is only 21 and I like his potential.

Jesper would get the chance to flourish more in Detroit as he is great with the puck and NJ has too many other high-end young puck carriers in our top-9. Walsh is also a B-level prospect who has offensive upside

 

[WingsMJN2965]

This has been my point the entire time...

No, your point was that Seider and Lundkvist were on the same level, and then when you were challenged to make a poll, you chickened out.

Matter of fact every time your claim gets disproven you run away and hide behind, “I don’t need to talk to you”, like a child.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, your point was that Seider and Lundkvist were on the same level, and then when you were challenged to make a poll, you chickened out.

Matter of fact every time your claim gets disproven you run away and hide behind, “I don’t need to talk to you”, like a child.

Hes also now denying that even the advanced stats show Seider was much better than Lundkvist despite that being a literal fact