Zach (lightning rod) Hyman thread: love him or hate him

[Buds17]

Can't be certain whether it's a (long-term) solution or not, but it's of no concern to me unless it's a problem. As long as the team is successful, I don't view it as one. Looks like we should be able to go four lines deep this season, too.

 

[hotpaws]

I actually answered this.
Perhaps you posted this after I did that though.

the question was why hasn't anyone who believes Hyman is so important to an offensive line calling for a similar player to be added to the Marner line ?

not some bull **** about what you believe he'll add to the line

could you imagine Hyman in full flight trying to handle a pass from MM and get a decent shot off , it would be hilarious (if i wasn't a Leaf fan) watching him try to do this

 

[saltming]

Can't be certain whether it's a (long-term) solution or not, but it's of no concern to me unless it's a problem. As long as the team is successful, I don't view it as one. Looks like we should be able to go four lines deep this season, too.

This! How is it a problem? Honestly (not you) where do you all see the problem?

 

[Mr Hockey]

 

[saltming]

the question was why hasn't anyone who believes Hyman is so important to an offensive line calling for a similar player to be added to the Marner line ?

not some bull **** about what you believe he'll add to the line

could you imagine Hyman in full flight trying to handle a pass from MM and get a decent shot off , it would be hilarious (if i wasn't a Leaf fan) watching him try to do this

Ok the reason is that the Marner scores. Many posters evaluate scoring as being a good player (yet some berate JVR for not playing the back 100' of ice)
Also people fixate on the fact that the Marner line has 3 scorers on it (relates back to the other point) so in their minds it's all good.
Did you read my post about that line?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I know Oilers fans mock loose puck recoveries but that's actually a real useful skill

 

[hotpaws]

so how come i keep hearing he just had to get into open ice and Hymcock would dig the puck out and feed it to him ?

 

[saltming]

Is there a stat that shows who caused those loose pucks?

 

[saltming]

so how come i keep hearing he just had to get into open ice and Hymcock would dig the puck out and feed it to him ?

Babcock said that Hyman "frees up the puck" (paraphrasing)

 

[Kiwi]

I will say that offense is not just scoring.
Secondly I agree he cannot make a pass longer that 12 feet with effect, but he fights the puck out and puts it (3 foot pass) somewhere the Matthews or Nylander can pick it up.
Very effective when you have those two getting the puck.

Don't you have one quantifiable statistic that says Hyman is actually good at puck retrievals?
I'll take anything at this point besides "effort level" or because Babcock says so

12 feet? He can't pass the puck 5 feet, some of his best "passes" last year were failed wrap around attempts, quite frankly it's amazing an NHL player can have puck skills that bad

 

[Ratboy]

Hymans fine, on the 4th line. we're literally robbing ourselves of goals and Matthews of assists if someone with no hands is stuck on the 1st line again.

 

[Ratboy]

Don't you have one quantifiable statistic that says Hyman is actually good at puck retrievals?
I'll take anything at this point besides "effort level" or because Babcock says so

12 feet? He can't pass the puck 5 feet, some of his best "passes" last year were failed wrap around attempts, quite frankly it's amazing an NHL player can have puck skills that bad

oh man, his infamous wrap around attempts. so consistently failing.

 

[saltming]

Don't you have one quantifiable statistic that says Hyman is actually good at puck retrievals?
I'll take anything at this point besides "effort level" or because Babcock says so

12 feet? He can't pass the puck 5 feet, some of his best "passes" last year were failed wrap around attempts, quite frankly it's amazing an NHL player can have puck skills that bad

Contributing to offense is different that generating offense.
If a defenseman "gets the puck on net" which leads to scoring chances, which ultimately turn into goals, are they not part of the offense?
So if Hyman fails a wrap around but the puck is in the crease which leads to a scramble play in the high danger zone, is that not offensive contribution?

 

[hotpaws]

Ok the reason is that the Marner scores. Many posters evaluate scoring as being a good player (yet some berate JVR for not playing the back 100' of ice)
Also people fixate on the fact that the Marner line has 3 scorers on it (relates back to the other point) so in their minds it's all good.
Did you read my post about that line?

more deflection , i'll ask again

how come the people (and this is the important part) who believe Hyman is a vital part of the Mathews line not calling for us to use a similar unskilled energy player for Marner's line

don't deflect or spin just answer why no one is calling for this type of player for Marner's line if they actually believe it and aren't just defending whatever lines Babs decides

 

[hotpaws]

Don't you have one quantifiable statistic that says Hyman is actually good at puck retrievals?
I'll take anything at this point besides "effort level" or because Babcock says so

12 feet? He can't pass the puck 5 feet, some of his best "passes" last year were failed wrap around attempts, quite frankly it's amazing an NHL player can have puck skills that bad

it is actually amazing but if it wasn't for Babs who knows if he would even be in the league

 

[Kiwi]

Contributing to offense is different that generating offense.
If a defenseman "gets the puck on net" which leads to scoring chances, which ultimately turn into goals, are they not part of the offense?
So if Hyman fails a wrap around but the puck is in the crease which leads to a scramble play in the high danger zone, is that not offensive contribution?

But what unskilled plug couldn't do that?

Hyman works hard and does a lot of dirty work but he's got to actually produce at some stage to be worth playing that many minutes that high in the line-up

We've got to many skilled hard working forwards being underutilized (Brown 4th line Kapanen AHL) to justify Hyman's spot on the first line without production

 

[Diddy]

it is actually amazing but if it wasn't for Babs who knows if he would even be in the league

I believe his dad bought a junior hockey team for Zach to play on and also bought a scouting agency to rank his son higher. He also published Zach's children books I think (edit: self published). Zach probably isn't an NHL player (or author) without those "gifts".
Also only good thing about hyman on Nylander and Matthews line is he drags down their points so we may get a better deal on their contracts lol.

 

[saltming]

more deflection , i'll ask again

how come the people (and this is the important part) who believe Hyman is a vital part of the Mathews line not calling for us to use a similar unskilled energy player for Marner's line

don't deflect or spin just answer why no one is calling for this type of player for Marner's line if they actually believe it and aren't just defending whatever lines Babs decides

Ya ok.
There is definitely some deflection goin on here.
Hello pot!

But AGAIN here is my reply

Ok the reason is that the Marner scores. Many posters evaluate scoring as being a good player (yet some berate JVR for not playing the back 100' of ice)
Also people fixate on the fact that the Marner line has 3 scorers on it (relates back to the other point) so in their minds it's all good.

 

[saltming]

But what unskilled plug couldn't do that?

Hyman works hard and does a lot of dirty work but he's got to actually produce at some stage to be worth playing that many minutes that high in the line-up

We've got to many skilled hard working forwards being underutilized (Brown 4th line Kapanen AHL) to justify Hyman's spot on the first line without production

Thats thw thing. Honestlydo you think Martin, or lets realy go unskileed plugs, Orr or McLaren could do Hyman's job?

 

[saltming]

the question was why hasn't anyone who believes Hyman is so important to an offensive line calling for a similar player to be added to the Marner line ?

not some bull **** about what you believe he'll add to the line

could you imagine Hyman in full flight trying to handle a pass from MM and get a decent shot off , it would be hilarious (if i wasn't a Leaf fan) watching him try to do this

I just read this. If I'm breaking a rule (cross thread pollination) I'm sorry bit it's relevant to this thread.

The inevitable happened today. I knew Babcock would love this player. I think he is above Kapanen in Babcocks mind. Babcock admires hard working players and Hyman, Brown and Soshnikov have heard his praises publicly. Quote from yesterday, Babcock goes out of his way to mention Grundstrom. Leafs need a Grundstrom type player on Marner's line. Marner has never had that element so far as a pro.

“(Carl) Grundstrom looks like a real hockey player to me,†Babcock said of the forward. “Every day he has the puck, every day he skates faster than everyone else. Every day he is more physical and every day he shoots the puck in the net.

“Pretty soon even a smart guy like me catches on and goes, ‘Hey, this guy might be alright.’

 

[Nooodles]

 

[Kiwi]

Thats thw thing. Honestlydo you think Martin, or lets realy go unskileed plugs, Orr or McLaren could do Hyman's job?

I noticed you didn't bring Brown or Kapanen into your example

I'll bite, I think Martin could give Hyman's numbers a good nudge playing with those linemates with that many minutes, remembering Hyman couldn't even crack 30 points last season

 

[saltming]

 

[Razz]

I think we're going to have this debate for many years to come. Matthews is a special player. From watching him all last season, I also believe he's a very unique player, especially for being a center. Matthews isn't a set up guy, he's ultra skilled at shooting, driving the net and in close. He's also incredible along the boards. So what kinds of players do you play with a guy like that? Usually these guys are wingers.

Nylander acts as the playmaker as opposed to the Center as it normally goes, so he's an easy fit, but who goes on the other side with Matthews? What skill set would compliment a line with Nylander and Matthews? When I think about it this way, I can see why Babcock chose the most aggressive forechecking forward we have to fill that spot. Hyman is the support, he's the guy mucking it up behind the net disrupting the defense. He's doing exactly what Babcock wants him to do and given the numbers from last season from Matthews and Nylander, we have little to complain about as far as the effectiveness of the line. In my opinion, if we didn't have Hyman, he'd probably use Komarov instead.

Babcock said it best today, he wants a guy to get Matthews and Nylander the puck. That's it. I'm happy we have a coach that can stand up to the pressure this city comes at him. The way he handled that pressure to move Marleau to Matthews' line was impressive.

 

[saltming]

I noticed you didn't bring Brown or Kapanen into your example

I'll bite, I think Martin could give Hyman's numbers a good nudge playing with those linemates with that many minutes, remembering Hyman couldn't even crack 30 points last season

I'm not talking points though. I like Brown as a possible replacement and the link I posted was actualy talking about the Hyman Matthews Brown line and they assesed brown as the distributor on that line. An assesment I agree with, which is lso why I think Willie is there, because he is a better distributer and a better scoring threat than Brown, but the article states that Hyman has a different job than Brown and Willie.